Pioneer Elite SC-37 vs. similar $1500 receivers

[HitsOfMisses]

I'm considering Pioneer Elite SC-37 receiver (THX Ultra2 Plus, 1.4a 3D HDMI, 7.1 channel, 140w, etc.).

How does the SC-37 compare to other receivers from say Marantz, Denon, Rotel or any other not-so-new/ used/ refurbished receivers in $1500 price range? My current needs are 1 room with 5.1 but I would like to have the option to stretch it to another room & 7.1 max.

I mostly stream movies or play on Blu-Ray & occassionaly listen to music.

Please let me know the make & model that meets my need & where to buy it.

Thank you!

HitsOfMisses

 

[InTheIndustry]

I'm considering Pioneer Elite SC-37 receiver (THX Ultra2 Plus, 1.4a 3D HDMI, 7.1 channel, 140w, etc.).

How does the SC-37 compare to other receivers from say Marantz, Denon, Rotel or any other not-so-new/ used/ refurbished receivers in $1500 price range? My current needs are 1 room with 5.1 but I would like to have the option to stretch it to another room & 7.1 max.

I mostly stream movies or play on Blu-Ray & occassionaly listen to music.

Please let me know the make & model that meets my need & where to buy it.

Thank you!

HitsOfMisses

I LOVE the new Elite product. We just picked up not too long ago after being Maranz/Denon dealers for three years. Onkyo before that. On the upper end, like what you're talking about, I think the Elite 37 is fantastic. The Marvell video processor is top shelf and unique to the Elite units (as far as I know). Sound quality is what you would expect out of a flagship receiver. If you can find an exploded view of it online and compare it to others, you will see that the layout of it is designed to reduce vibration and increase duribility. It's a unique layout that makes a lot of sense.

Pioneer really reworked their Elite line for this new product launch and, I think, did a killer job.

The biggest question I have for you, before I would give it some sort of "Two-Thumbs-Up" is... What speakers will you be powering this with?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Do you really need HDMI v1.4a?

If HDMI v1.3 will suffice, then I would get the Denon AVR-4310 for 51% off:
http://www.amazon.com/Denon-AVR4310CI-7-1-Channel-Multi-Zone-Connectivity/dp/B002AKKFQC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1298336805&sr=8-1

 

[templemaners]

Some other new options to consider at ~$1500 are (depending on how well you shop around):

• Denon AVR-4311CI
• Anthem MRX 500
• Onkyo TX-NR3008/5008
• Yamaha RX-A2000

Are there any other features you are looking for or find desirable?

 

[HitsOfMisses]

Speakers

@InTheIndustry: I have Tyler Acoustics Linbrook System II for FR & Center. I've JBL S312 in rear, which I may upgrade to Linbrooks later on.

Also, Where did you buy it from & how much you paid? What other receivers you considered & why did you deide on SC-37?

@AcuDefTechGuy: Yes, I would prefer to have 3D HDMI (1.4a) to be future ready.

@templemaners: How does the receiver you recommend stack up against the Pioneer? I'm only interested if they're better than the SC-37. Besides, I'm not sure what other features I should be looking at.

Thanks!
- HitsOfMisses

 

[templemaners]

@InTheIndustry: I have Tyler Acoustics Linbrook System II for FR & Center. I've JBL S312 in rear, which I may upgrade to Linbrooks later on.

Also, Where did you buy it from & how much you paid? What other receivers you considered & why did you deide on SC-37?

@AcuDefTechGuy: Yes, I would prefer to have 3D HDMI (1.4a) to be future ready.

@templemaners: How does the receiver you recommend stack up against the Pioneer? I'm only interested if they're better than the SC-37. Besides, I'm not sure what other features I should be looking at.

Thanks!
- HitsOfMisses

The one I was looking closest at (I've been shopping in the $800-1500 range) is the Denon 4311. Room correction software is something I'm trying to maximize since I'm not going to be trying to integrate an outboard parametric equalizer anytime soon, like a DEQ2496, so I want something in the receiver to do that for me. The 4311 has Audyssey's XT32 room correction (top of the non Pro line) and Sub EQ as well - I hope to use two subs, so something like that should come in very handy. It's 9.2 capable out of the box, and with an external amp, can do 11.2. Like you, I'm not going beyond 5/7 channels though right now. I also liked that I could bypass the internal amps completely with the Pre-Amp mode. Lastly, from what I've read in the AVS forum, the problems that the AVR-4311 had early on have been solved/fixed.

Here's a link to the Audioholics first look:
http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/receivers/denon-avr-4311ci-fl

I was considering the Onkyo 3008 for a while @ $1150 from Amazon, but I was worried about the longevity of the product, and didn't like certain design choices, like not having a main zone 12v trigger (leaving you to work around that for any external amps that might be used).

The Anthem ones seem pretty solid, and the ARC (Anthem Room Correction) has quite a lot of rabid followers for it's quality. I have sort of dismissed it though because I need more HDMI connections and I'm really the type that tries to get the most bang for the buck - the Anthem seemed a bit overpriced IMO.

The RX-A2000 I mentioned because it was right at $1500. Audioholics reviewed the top of the line RX-A3000 model and seemed to find that it was a top notch receiver. It is $300 more than your price point, so it might be worth investigating whether the 2000 would be a major step down from the 3000, or if it would be worth it to pay up the extra $300. Here's their review:

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/receivers/rx-a3000

If you are interested in the SC-37 still, the Audioholics store has them on sale for $1319. Be sure to read the statement about the warranty and that your comfortable with it before purchasing.
http://store.audioholics.com/product/3640/69/pioneer-elite-sc-37-surround-receiver
http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=72299

 

[InTheIndustry]

@InTheIndustry: I have Tyler Acoustics Linbrook System II for FR & Center. I've JBL S312 in rear, which I may upgrade to Linbrooks later on.

Also, Where did you buy it from & how much you paid? What other receivers you considered & why did you deide on SC-37?


Thanks!
- HitsOfMisses

I'm a Pioneer Elite dealer, so I purchase directly from Pioneer. The AH store deal is a great deal, but the warranty disclaimer is a bit scary, IMO.

Very nice speakers!

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I'm a Pioneer Elite dealer

You don't carry Revel speakers, do you?

Too bad you are not located in Oklahoma or Dallas.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Pioneer SC-37:

THD+N from the CD input to the speaker output was less than 0.007 percent at 1 kHz when driving 2.83 volts into an 8-ohm load. Crosstalk at 1 kHz driving 2.83 volts into an 8-ohm load was –97.27 dB left to right and –96.79 dB right to left. The signal-to-noise ratio with an 8-ohm load from 10 Hz to 24 kHz with “A” weighting was –105.63 dBrA.

Those measurements, especially the crosstalk, would put most components to shame.

http://www.hometheater.com/content/pioneer-elite-sc-37-av-receiver-ht-labs-measures

 

[HitsOfMisses]

Pioneer SC-37:

THD+N from the CD input to the speaker output was less than 0.007 percent at 1 kHz when driving 2.83 volts into an 8-ohm load. Crosstalk at 1 kHz driving 2.83 volts into an 8-ohm load was –97.27 dB left to right and –96.79 dB right to left. The signal-to-noise ratio with an 8-ohm load from 10 Hz to 24 kHz with “A” weighting was –105.63 dBrA.

Those measurements, especially the crosstalk, would put most components to shame.

So in laymen's term, is SC-37 better then the products recommended here?
De

• non AVR-4311CI
• Anthem MRX 500
• Onkyo TX-NR3008/5008
• Yamaha RX-A2000

 

[InTheIndustry]

You don't carry Revel speakers, do you?

Too bad you are not located in Oklahoma or Dallas.

The rep has been after me to look at the brand. I guess I could say that I carry it, even though I've only listened to the rep's demo equipment and never actually bought the product. One phone call and 15 mins of paper work and I could order whatever I wanted from them. I'm not a brand collector like a lot of Stereo Shops. If I couldn't give Revel the attention it needs, I would feel bad tieing up the line.

You know what I am a dealer of, that I think is an awesome speaker & totally in-line (actually, I think it's better) than the Salon2 is this....

http://kef.com/us/Loudspeakers/Reference/207

Sadly, and most of you will find this damning... The audiophile crowd is not my thing (for several business related reasons).

The showroom we're doing is 100% multi channel and lifestyle focused and only has 3-4 different systems designed with a purpose: To show how technology can work for our clients in their homes. From there, our clients trust us to help them spend their money and not waste it.

You guys that like to go around and demo loads of gear would probably like to come in and hang out and talk tech, but it's not the place to hang out demoing tons of gear.

 

[InTheIndustry]

So in laymen's term, is SC-37 better then the products recommended here?
De

• non AVR-4311CI
• Anthem MRX 500
• Onkyo TX-NR3008/5008
• Yamaha RX-A2000

On various projects I have used the Denon, Onkyo, & Yamaha brands out of that list. I have specifically used the 4311CI but NOT the 3008/5008 or A2000. The Anthem I would not look at as a consumer because, from a manufacturing stand point, I don't see how they could possibly offer like-value compared to the others.

I like the new Pioneer Elite pieces a lot. Pioneer went back to the drawing board on the new units and I think they are impressive in the $800 and up price point in build quality and performance. If your budget was $600 or less, I would look at the Onkyo line. I think there is more tangible difference for the money packed into those.

I don't think anyone could say, definitively, that any one mainstream, name brand receiver is without question better than another. People will value some features over others, etc. and a lot of that comes down to opinion. Technically, I think that the new Elites are laid out differently than some of the others to reduce vibration and increase durability. The A/VR market is so cut throat that the manufacturers are always very close at their various price points. I, personally, would never recommend spending more than $2,000-$2,500 on a receiver. If you need more power than that, I would go to a separate amp and add a receiver with preouts and great processing (like the Pioneer Elite VSX-32 & up).

Personal preference, the only brand I cannot stand is Yamaha. In the roughly 10 times I've been forced to work with it over the years I have never come away liking the product in the least.

 

[PENG]

The 4311 has Audyssey's XT32 room correction (top of the non Pro line)

I am not sure what you meant by non pro line. Is there such a thing as a 'Pro line" ? As far I know the Pro is a kit with software that you can buy to work with both the XT and XT32. The 4311 CI is custom integrator certified. You can get one of those registered Audyssey custom installer to use their 'Pro' software to do the calibration for you instead of doing it yourself'?

 

[3db]

On various projects I have used the Denon, Onkyo, & Yamaha brands out of that list. I have specifically used the 4311CI but NOT the 3008/5008 or A2000. The Anthem I would not look at as a consumer because, from a manufacturing stand point, I don't see how they could possibly offer like-value compared to the others..

I fail to understand your reasoning for the Anthem statement. It offers ARC which is reputably better then Auddessy according to some of the reports I've been reading.

Personal preference, the only brand I cannot stand is Yamaha. In the roughly 10 times I've been forced to work with it over the years I have never come away liking the product in the least.

Why is that? Their build is bullet proof and most if not all receiver manufacturers would love to have the reputation that Yamaha has for building reliable products.

 

[templemaners]

I am not sure what you meant by non pro line. Is there such a thing as a 'Pro line" ? As far I know the Pro is a kit with software that you can buy to work with both the XT and XT32. The 4311 CI is custom integrator certified. You can get one of those registered Audyssey custom installer to use their 'Pro' software to do the calibration for you instead of doing it yourself'?

Sorry, I misworded that. I meant to say that it's the highest MultEQ outside of the Pro kit.

 

[bluephi1914]

Not to hijack the thread, but i was also considering the similar receivers... I was looking at Yamaha RX-A3000... but after visiting Best Buy, they showed me the and the Pioneer SC-37. I didn't see a review on this site for the pioneer so i figured i would ask.

Not sure what unit to go with.

I currently have a Yamaha RX-V3300... and i want to upgrade to something that has HDMI and will give me the true power that my Yamaha has. The salesman was pushing the pioneer and said that it had better video processing and more power... even though they were rated the same for power output.

I have Klipsch reference series speakers.

KLF-10 Fronts
RS-52 Surrounds
RC-3 II Center
Velodyne sub-woofer

 

[PENG]

Not to hijack the thread, but i was also considering the similar receivers... I was looking at Yamaha RX-A3000... but after visiting Best Buy, they showed me the and the Pioneer SC-37. I didn't see a review on this site for the pioneer so i figured i would ask.

Not sure what unit to go with.

I currently have a Yamaha RX-V3300... and i want to upgrade to something that has HDMI and will give me the true power that my Yamaha has. The salesman was pushing the pioneer and said that it had better video processing and more power... even though they were rated the same for power output.

I have Klipsch reference series speakers.

KLF-10 Fronts
RS-52 Surrounds
RC-3 II Center
Velodyne sub-woofer

I wouldn't listen to the BB sales person. First of all, the video processing thing is way over hype. In most home applications you won't notice a difference regardless because most displays and players have good enough VP. Besides, the Yamaha has the latest Reon Vida that is most likely as good as the Marvell in the Pioneer. I read a couple of recent reviews and the Yamaha's Vida scored well. Again, Vida, Marvell, VRS won't make you bad DVD looks better but if your good DVD will look close to or even better than the bad BR's by simply setting your AVR to pass through with scaling off.

The Yamaha mode you picked is an excellent one, but the SC-37 is good too unless you don't prefer their ICE amps.

 

[aces high]

I just sold my SC-07 and went with an Anthem MRX 700, to my ears the Anthem sounds better.

 

[HitsOfMisses]

Thanks for all your replies & suggestions.

I have been reading other forums & the consensus is that separates (pre-amp, processor, amp, etc.) is a better choice then going just for a receiver. Some of the recommendations are Emotiva (UPA-7, UMC-1), Marantz (AV8003), Onkyo (PR-SC885), etc.

I'm not loyal to a specific brand. The focus is on great but clean video & audio w/o the need to keep spending money on upgrades every now & then. Reconsidered & dropping 3D from my list of priority. Is it true that HDMI 1.4a is only for the video & is not great on audio?

As mentioned above, I have a Kenwood VR-4090 (5.1, non-HDMI, 10yrs old) receiver, Sony BX-57 Blu-Ray player, & Tyler Acoustics Linbrook System II front & center. I've JBL S312 for rears that I'm planning to replace & on a fence if I should get Oppo 93/95. Will Oppo 95 compensate need for either amp or pre-amp? Will that combination deliver the same or better quality then separates?

Oh, it's too confusing. I think it would have been better if I would have listed my current setup & should have asked what is the best route to take with $1500 budget in mind (excluding BD player)?

 

[AVRat]

What are the dimensions of your space? I’d love to have your Tyler setup. I’d be inclined to at least separately amp the front three, especially if you have a large space, although the Tylers look to be an easy speaker to drive. How has the Kenwood been doing with its 120Ws? The receiver vs. separates is a tough call since each has its pros/cons, but I think the audio quality gap that used to exist has substantially narrowed. I do know that ARC systems like Audyssey can make a world of difference to the listening experience.

The Oppo 95 is just a source so you’ll need a receiver/separates anyway.