Pioneer Elite SC-05 Pre Out Line Voltage

[photoeye]

Hi,

I checked with Pioneer Support. They are giving me the same information
as in the manual which states 335mV for line level out.

I'm trying to determine what is the Pre Out Line Level voltage. Since
I'm using an Emotiva XPA-5, their spec states 1.25mV input voltage
for max power. For SC-05's 335mV spec does not make sense. If
that's really the case, I would not be able to acheive max power (?)

I don't have means of measuring the line out voltage. I have a standard DMM but I don't think that will work.

Any ideas/thoughts?

thanks.

 

[TLS Guy]

Hi,

I checked with Pioneer Support. They are giving me the same information
as in the manual which states 335mV for line level out.

I'm trying to determine what is the Pre Out Line Level voltage. Since
I'm using an Emotiva XPA-5, their spec states 1.25mV input voltage
for max power. For SC-05's 335mV spec does not make sense. If
that's really the case, I would not be able to acheive max power (?)

I don't have means of measuring the line out voltage. I have a standard DMM but I don't think that will work.

Any ideas/thoughts?

thanks.

If that is so, then the voltage is way below line level, which should be around a volt. Units usually vary between 750 mV and 2 V, the scatter is usually 750 to 1.25 Volts in my experience.

However if your information is correct then the pre out output is 6 db below the Emotiva full modulation level and that is a lot. This will lead to high volume settings and adverse signal to noise.

If it is so, you will need to build an interface between your pre outs and the Emotiva. I would design for 8 to 10 db of gain. These preamp stages could easily and cheaply be built form low noise op amp chips. You could power them from a wall wart.

 

[photoeye]

sorry, typo, xpa-5 spec is 1.25Vrms input for max. output.

I'm not sure why pioneer support would not provide more info than this.

I checked onkyo's AVR specs and it also states around 425mV. This is
for rec out though, not pre out.

I'll have to try some other tests to confirm if it's an issue or not.

it would not make sense for them to make an AVR with such a low
output voltage though so maybe the spec is not for pre out(?)


thx

 

[TLS Guy]

sorry, typo, xpa-5 spec is 1.25Vrms input for max. output.

I'm not sure why pioneer support would not provide more info than this.

I checked onkyo's AVR specs and it also states around 425mV. This is
for rec out though, not pre out.

I'll have to try some other tests to confirm if it's an issue or not.

it would not make sense for them to make an AVR with such a low
output voltage though so maybe the spec is not for pre out(?)


thx

I downloaded your manual, and they do not specify the preout output. You have quoted the record out.

However they do state that the preouts are line. To be considered line outs, it has to around a volt give or take a little, otherwise it is misrepresentation and they could be liable for misleading product information.

So, I'm sure you will be fine, and if not you have legitimate grounds for redress.

To check the voltage you would need a signal generator and scope. You would load the aux with a 500 Hz sine wave and watch the preout wave form on the scope. You would turn up the signal generator and measure the pre out voltage just before clipping. The scope would tell you the peak voltage, and you could work out the RMS voltage or measure it.

 

[photoeye]

Hi,

I agree with you. even onkyo specs states for rec out. they don't mention about line pre out spec, I wonder why.

I no longer have a scope. could I get away with a true rms DMM? I could
borrow one.

I'm curious what the line level Vrms is at when channel level setting are 0dB.

thanks for your help

 

[TLS Guy]

Hi,

I agree with you. even onkyo specs states for rec out. they don't mention about line pre out spec, I wonder why.

I no longer have a scope. could I get away with a true rms DMM? I could
borrow one.

I'm curious what the line level Vrms is at when channel level setting are 0dB.

thanks for your help

What you are suggesting won't help. 0 db on the volume control means nothing of any consequence. What you need to do is modulate an input at its specified full modulation voltage, look at the input and output and make sure they are not clipped. Then measure the peak to peak voltage, and it is the peak to peak voltage that is relevant here not, the RMS voltage. Then turn up the generator until it clips and remeasure. Then you will know the headroom of the preamp stage. It should have 10 db of headroom. Any other data means nothing.

Gear that is any good should be able to deliver 10 volts peak to peak on the line output, into a high impedance load.

 

[Gov]

This is straight from a Pioneer rep

THX certified Pioneer receivers...

output level for -20dBFs input , 0dB VR position => 150mV
output level for -20dBFs input , +12dB VR Position(MAX) => 600mV
output level for 0dBFs input, 0dB VR position => 1.5V

 

[Lordoftherings]

^ Doesn't say much to me or anyone else for that matter.

 

[bandphan]

the 335mv is for the record out not line level out the line level is 1.5v

 

[Gov]

^ Doesn't say much to me or anyone else for that matter.

Basically it means that Pioneer THX receivers will drive most any amplifiers to full power

 

[tcarcio]

The output voltage of my Elite is low and it is THX. So I am not sure where the info is coming from that it is 1.5v unless someone measured. My Elite was very low and I used an Art cleanbox to bump up the voltage and it made a night and day difference. I went from having the gain on the amp at almost max to having it at 1/4. Huge difference....

 

[photoeye]

The output voltage of my Elite is low and it is THX. So I am not sure where the info is coming from that it is 1.5v unless someone measured. My Elite was very low and I used an Art cleanbox to bump up the voltage and it made a night and day difference. I went from having the gain on the amp at almost max to having it at 1/4. Huge difference....

Which Elite Model do you have this problem with?

I seem to be having the same issue as you. I tried the other day,
cd player to a 10k pot to the xpa-5. packs plenty of power at low volume.
through the elite sc-05 and the xpa-5, it seems you lose a lot of gain.
I bumped up the channel level to +3dB which helped.

so is it really capable of 1.5V and at what setting?

 

[bandphan]

Which Elite Model do you have this problem with?

I seem to be having the same issue as you. I tried the other day,
cd player to a 10k pot to the xpa-5. packs plenty of power at low volume.
through the elite sc-05 and the xpa-5, it seems you lose a lot of gain.
I bumped up the channel level to +3dB which helped.

so is it really capable of 1.5V and at what setting?

do you have mcacc running when you compared? I have no issues what so ever w/pre outs to my amp. Nor do my subs And fwiw, i do run my amp at full gain and not because its lacking

 

[photoeye]

fwiw, i do run my amp at full gain and not because its lacking

I did try switching between Pure Direct and Direct. not much difference.

what do you mean running your amp at full gain?

if you don't mind me asking, what MCACC Channel level settings are yours set to?

typically what volume levels do you use(volume display) for movies?

thx

 

[tcarcio]

do you have mcacc running when you compared? I have no issues what so ever w/pre outs to my amp. Nor do my subs And fwiw, i do run my amp at full gain and not because its lacking

I went ahead and ran the mcacc before and after both with the amps and without. I run the level at -25 for movies and -35 for music. As far as amp gain the knobs on the front of the 2500 needed to be set at almost full clockwise without the Art Cleanbox but when I added the Art it blasted me out so I had to bring the gain dowh to 1/4. Hope that explains it... Oh, and my level in the reciever is set to 0db.

 

[bandphan]

ill measure my pioneer in the morning and post the results.

 

[TLS Guy]

This is straight from a Pioneer rep

THX certified Pioneer receivers...

output level for -20dBFs input , 0dB VR position => 150mV
output level for -20dBFs input , +12dB VR Position(MAX) => 600mV
output level for 0dBFs input, 0dB VR position => 1.5V

That seems to be exactly what one would expect from a line out

 

[Lordoftherings]

Basically it means that Pioneer THX receivers will drive most any amplifiers to full power

If you say so.

 

[photoeye]

sorry if this is a silly question. the avr calibration will give a delay based upon distance. justing throwing a number, 8ft from the speaker, it delays it at 30msec. does this depend how loud the level is? if the output sound level is louder(higher amplitude), would the delay be less? or it's not dependent upon
amplitude but the frequency?

just looking for a simple answer

thx

 

[Lordoftherings]

sorry if this is a silly question. the avr calibration will give a delay based upon distance. justing throwing a number, 8ft from the speaker, it delays it at 30msec. does this depend how loud the level is? if the output sound level is louder(higher amplitude), would the delay be less? or it's not dependent upon
amplitude but the frequency?

just looking for a simple answer

thx

1. No, the level doesn't have anything to do with the distance (delay).

2. No, same answer as no.1

3. No, it depends of the speed of sound reaching a determinated point in space (from the sound of your speakers reaching your ears at the listening position).

* Speed of sound = 1,136.37 feet per second.
* One millisecond = 1.13637 feet.
* One inch = 0.0733333 millisecond.
* One foot = 0.8799996 millisecond.