Pioneer Atmos Speakers (SP-EFS73/SP-EBS73L/SP-EC73 and SW-E10) Preview

[monkish54]

Exactly. More distraction. Let's focus on the salient points - plot, character, setting, etc.

You can't blame a format for the implementer's "misuse".

I agree, I don't want more audio gimmicks in the form of random single gunshots zooming through the room, explosions for no plot-driven reason but only because explosions are cool, etc. However, I don't blame my speakers when someone plays shitty music through them.

The immersion that can be possible using Atmos sounds very promising to me. Not only for film, but video games as well when and if it is implemented.

 

[gene]

I agree there. But it's a great selling feature. We knew it was only a matter of time before something comes after DTS-HD MA & TrueHD.

So is Atmos lossless like DTS-HD MA & TrueHD? If it is lossless, then I guess there's no harm even if the improvement is equivocal.

Not sure exactly since we're now dealing with more discrete channels than we had with 7.1 TrueHD. I'd imagine it is lossless and more efficient.

IMO the Four reasons Dolby Atmos exists:

• Simplify the production process for sound by having one soundtrack work for all speaker configurations
• Add wow effect and excitement to cinema to entice people to pay a price premium
• Justify having consumers buy a new AV receiver in a declining market
• Dolby trying to regain some ground that is lost to DTS in Blu-ray since it's not the default soundtrack like it was for DVD

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Not sure exactly since we're now dealing with more discrete channels than we had with 7.1 TrueHD. I'd imagine it is lossless and more efficient.

IMO the Four reasons Dolby Atmos exists:

• Simplify the production process for sound by having one soundtrack work for all speaker configurations
• Add wow effect and excitement to cinema to entice people to pay a price premium
• Justify having consumers buy a new AV receiver in a declining market
• Dolby trying to regain some ground that is lost to DTS in Blu-ray since it's not the default soundtrack like it was for DVD

Seems about right. I also can't recall the last BD I saw that was in Dolby TrueHD.

For some reasons, I've always liked DTS better too (DTS over DD, HD MA over TrueHD).

I'm more interested in DTS-MDA than Atmos.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

You can't blame a format for the implementer's "misuse".

I agree, I don't want more audio gimmicks in the form of random single gunshots zooming through the room, explosions for no plot-driven reason but only because explosions are cool, etc. However, I don't blame my speakers when someone plays shitty music through them.

The immersion that can be possible using Atmos sounds very promising to me. Not only for film, but video games as well when and if it is implemented.

No, of course, we can't blame the director's failure on any new sound technology. That was just random talk.

But what's salient here? The dialogues and front speakers or the cool immersive surround effects? How important is the immersive surround effects compared to the dialogue and front speakers? How much of the soundtrack should be focused on the front 3 channels compared to the surround channels?

The surround channels were always meant to supplement the primary front channels. But it seems the Atmos crowd is talking as if the surround channels are salient here.

But, I see what you are saying. Atmos seems like the cool new toys for boys, right? I can't blame you for that.

I wonder which population age favors Atmos and which doesn't care?

Perhaps those of us who have been around much longer (baby boomers and generation X) are just more cynical and aren't as enthusiastic because we've seen too many "gimmicks" and technology failures.

Perhaps the generation Y may be more affable and enthusiastic towards Atmos.

 

[Plexmulti9]

The top firing drivers on the speakers have a seperate hook up. There are two sets of speaker hook ups on the bottom and top.

We should also keep in mind this is the minimum standard Dolby has set and not the most ideal. But ingenious and looks to work very well from early reports.

It's still incredibly impractical and unrealistic to think that anything but the slimmest % of the public can set this up properly and, even if they could, would actually have the ability to position these top firing speakers properly in their room.

I feel that there is a substantial difference between a surround sound system and a theater system. ATMOS, to me, is a serious cinematic format for people wanting to recreate a life like theater experience in their home. The consumers Pioneer is marketing these to are not going to achieve that with products like this. It's a red herring offered out in the hopes to hook people who will pull the trigger on features (over quality) they probably don't understand but know by name.

 

[zieglj01]

I wonder whether the top driver is in a sealed compartment, or if it could act as an unintended passive radiator when not active with a surround signal? Would that have a negative effect on q or tuning when listening to a stereo source?

Got an answer - according to Walkamo from Pioneer >>
Each of the concentric drivers have their own enclosure.

 

[gene]

Seems about right. I also can't recall the last BD I saw that was in Dolby TrueHD.

For some reasons, I've always liked DTS better too (DTS over DD, HD MA over TrueHD).

I'm more interested in DTS-MDA than Atmos.

Regular DTS is superior to regular DD b/c it uses less compression and has better stereo separation for the surround channels. Only when Dolby TrueHD came out did Dolby finally admit that compression was bad. I can't even listen to an old concert recorded in DD but my old DTS concerts like Eagles Hell Freezes Over and Eric Clapton stuff still sounds very good despite it not being lossless.

 

[zieglj01]

Got an answer - according to Walkamo from Pioneer >>
Each of the concentric drivers have their own enclosure.

Another interesting thing to note >>

The towers and center channel have 2 braces each - however, the bookshelf speaker has no braces.

 

[monkish54]

Another interesting thing to note >>

The towers and center channel have 2 braces each - however, the bookshelf speaker has no braces.

Not sure how large the bookshelf speaker is, but if small enough the stiffness and frequency of resonance of the panels might allow Pioneer to get away without bracing.

In my own designs, I always employ bracing just to cover my ass, but Pioneer is working on a budget. If they did a FEA and determined that the panels are stiff enough and damp enough, I'm happy they didn't include bracing. Unlike Axiom's 3 tweeters, and B&W 800's midrange crossover at 4khz which try to defy physics, I don't have a problem with the lack of bracing if science shows the lack of bracing has merit.

I, perhaps foolishly, trust that Andrew Jones understands how to build a good loudspeaker. If bracing was needed, I don't think he would have left it out. I certainly dont think if it was needed Pioneer would volunteer the information so willingly.

I could be wrong, but time will tell.

 

[gene]

Not sure how large the bookshelf speaker is, but if small enough the stiffness and frequency of resonance of the panels might allow Pioneer to get away without bracing.

In my own designs, I always employ bracing just to cover my ass, but Pioneer is working on a budget. If they did a FEA and determined that the panels are stiff enough and damp enough, I'm happy they didn't include bracing. Unlike Axiom's 3 tweeters, and B&W 800's midrange crossover at 4khz which try to defy physics, I don't have a problem with the lack of bracing if science shows the lack of bracing has merit.

I, perhaps foolishly, trust that Andrew Jones understands how to build a good loudspeaker. If bracing was needed, I don't think he would have left it out. I certainly dont think if it was needed Pioneer would volunteer the information so willingly.

I could be wrong, but time will tell.

Bracing is often left out or skimped on not because of incompetence but because of budget. However in Axiom's case they used to claim less bracing was better to lower the panel resonance but I'm sure that story has changed since the prices of their speakers have gone substantially up over the years

 

[zieglj01]

Not sure how large the bookshelf speaker is, but if small enough the stiffness and frequency of resonance of the panels might allow Pioneer to get away without bracing.

I, perhaps foolishly, trust that Andrew Jones understands how to build a good loudspeaker. If bracing was needed, I don't think he would have left it out. I certainly dont think if it was needed Pioneer would volunteer the information so willingly.

I could be wrong, but time will tell.

15" H x 7" W x 9" D > around 15.7 lb

It may or may not be based on budget - Andrew is a good designer, I believe he worked
to get the best sound that he could.

Andrew also stated, that music was still important when designing the Atmos speakers.

Time will tell about the end result - there should be some reviews and measurements
coming in the near future.

 

[zieglj01]

Bracing is often left out or skimped on not because of incompetence but because of budget.

I have opened a lot of speakers - and it does look to me, that budget is the reason.
And, even skimping on some damping material.

The BS21 Pioneer bookshelf did have a brace - however, the BS-22 does not have one.

All in all - the end result is the performance for the price (based on compromise).

 

[charmerci]

Not sure how large the bookshelf speaker is, but if small enough the stiffness and frequency of resonance of the panels might allow Pioneer to get away without bracing.

In my own designs, I always employ bracing just to cover my ass, but Pioneer is working on a budget. If they did a FEA and determined that the panels are stiff enough and damp enough, I'm happy they didn't include bracing. Unlike Axiom's 3 tweeters, and B&W 800's midrange crossover at 4khz which try to defy physics, I don't have a problem with the lack of bracing if science shows the lack of bracing has merit.

I, perhaps foolishly, trust that Andrew Jones understands how to build a good loudspeaker. If bracing was needed, I don't think he would have left it out. I certainly dont think if it was needed Pioneer would volunteer the information so willingly.

I could be wrong, but time will tell.

Having owned the BS22's, I can tell you that they sound much better when they are braced IF they are played at loud levels.

 

[utopianemo]

Um

I'm a bit confused by your summary criticisms of the Pioneer Atmos speakers. You're concerned that people won't want to fork over the money for a feature that's not used(the upward firing drivers). These are Atmos speakers, designed principally for Atmos. Nobody is going to buy them just to listen to jazz....that's like saying people aren't going to want to buy bipole speakers because they might not want the extra drivers.

 

[crossedover]

I'm a bit confused by your summary criticisms of the Pioneer Atmos speakers. You're concerned that people won't want to fork over the money for a feature that's not used(the upward firing drivers). These are Atmos speakers, designed principally for Atmos. Nobody is going to buy them just to listen to jazz....that's like saying people aren't going to want to buy bipole speakers because they might not want the extra drivers.

They certainly can be used for non Atmos applications, so look at it as 2x the benefit as long as they measure and sound well with out the height driver firing

 

[alphaiii]

I'm a bit confused by your summary criticisms of the Pioneer Atmos speakers. You're concerned that people won't want to fork over the money for a feature that's not used(the upward firing drivers). These are Atmos speakers, designed principally for Atmos. Nobody is going to buy them just to listen to jazz....that's like saying people aren't going to want to buy bipole speakers because they might not want the extra drivers.

Very different considering bipole speakers run off a single channel of the AVR... while these Pioneer Atmos speakers are designed to run the top firing concentric driver off a separate channel... and an Atmos enable AVR is needed to send a "proper" signal to that top firing driver.

 

[Plexmulti9]

I'm a bit confused by your summary criticisms of the Pioneer Atmos speakers. You're concerned that people won't want to fork over the money for a feature that's not used(the upward firing drivers). These are Atmos speakers, designed principally for Atmos. Nobody is going to buy them just to listen to jazz....that's like saying people aren't going to want to buy bipole speakers because they might not want the extra drivers.

I don't think most consumers are savvy enough to understand that. In fact, I know they aren't and I would also gamble... much... that Pioneer is hoping for that to play in their favor as well.

 

[crossedover]

I don't think most consumers are savvy enough to understand that. In fact, I know they aren't and I would also gamble... much... that Pioneer is hoping for that to play in their favor as well.

Not sure why you always find the negative in every post. Yes it could be a pitfall, however Andrew has a positive track record with his designs, so just eating him and the marketing tool up seems so premature. His designs throughout the years are proven and to lap dog your responses based on subjective conjecture is nothing more than that. I'll be the first to admit when I'm wrong so if fails... bravo

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I don't think most consumers are savvy enough to understand that. In fact, I know they aren't and I would also gamble... much... that Pioneer is hoping for that to play in their favor as well.

They'll just wait for Bose to come out with their version of ATMOS speakers.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Not sure why you always find the negative in every post. Yes it could be a pitfall, however Andrew has a positive track record with his designs, so just eating him and the marketing tool up seems so premature. His designs throughout the years are proven and to lap dog your responses based on subjective conjecture is nothing more than that. I'll be the first to admit when I'm wrong so if fails... bravo

Well, everyone is entitled to an opinion, negative or positive, based on his experience and working with many people.

Agree to disagree.