Picking the right sub

[Damone5000]

Hi. Long time lurker first time posting. Thanks in advance to anyone who offers advice.

I recently moved from a very small house to a house with a large finished basement. My current setup was fine for the small room but now I need to build something more room appropriate. New room is 21’ x 22’ x 8.5’ with my tv and mains on the 21’ wall. Large sectional couch cuts the room almost in half so the viewing/listening position is about 12’ from the wall

Current 2.1 setup:
Amp - Arcam A25 integrated
Streaming - Bluesound Node (2021 version)
Mains - Triangle Antal ES tower speakers (love these)
Subwoofer - Emotiva 12 inch (that just died)
TV - LG C3 OLED 77 inch

Use is 75% TV and movies and 25% music, but the music listening is much more focused than the TV listening (for the most part).

Without even the small Emotiva, the sound for music and TV is now pretty thin. Eventually I will upgrade to a full 5.1 (or 5.2) system and move the Arcam and the Triangles to my office, but I’m not ready to commit to all that since I just bought a new house and there are other needs. But, I need a new sub right away.

I’m leaning towards the HSU VTF-TN1 and my max subwoofer budget is a self-imposed $1,500. I really don’t want to break it but I can. Should I do 2 $700 subs or stick with the HSU? I also don’t know how I’m going to do the high pass/low pass filtering with the Arcam and Bluesound Node, but maybe that can be achieved with a sub with a high-pass filter? Future AV receiver might be a year or two away so, while it doesn’t need to be perfect right now, I still want it to sound good for the short to medium term.

WAF is fine with 1 HSU VTF-TN1 but 2 subs that size (height) would be an issue and also way over budget. Two 12’s would probably ok as I can hide them a bit behind seating positions and corners (depending on positioning of course).

Any advice would be helpful and appreciated. Thanks!

 

[Danzilla31]

Hi. Long time lurker first time posting. Thanks in advance to anyone who offers advice.

I recently moved from a very small house to a house with a large finished basement. My current setup was fine for the small room but now I need to build something more room appropriate. New room is 21’ x 22’ x 8.5’ with my tv and mains on the 21’ wall. Large sectional couch cuts the room almost in half so the viewing/listening position is about 12’ from the wall

Current 2.1 setup:
Amp - Arcam A25 integrated
Streaming - Bluesound Node (2021 version)
Mains - Triangle Antal ES tower speakers (love these)
Subwoofer - Emotiva 12 inch (that just died)
TV - LG C3 OLED 77 inch

Use is 75% TV and movies and 25% music, but the music listening is much more focused than the TV listening (for the most part).

Without even the small Emotiva, the sound for music and TV is now pretty thin. Eventually I will upgrade to a full 5.1 (or 5.2) system and move the Arcam and the Triangles to my office, but I’m not ready to commit to all that since I just bought a new house and there are other needs. But, I need a new sub right away.

I’m leaning towards the HSU VTF-TN1 and my max subwoofer budget is a self-imposed $1,500. I really don’t want to break it but I can. Should I do 2 $700 subs or stick with the HSU? I also don’t know how I’m going to do the high pass/low pass filtering with the Arcam and Bluesound Node, but maybe that can be achieved with a sub with a high-pass filter? Future AV receiver might be a year or two away so, while it doesn’t need to be perfect right now, I still want it to sound good for the short to medium term.

WAF is fine with 1 HSU VTF-TN1 but 2 subs that size (height) would be an issue and also way over budget. Two 12’s would probably ok as I can hide them a bit behind seating positions and corners (depending on positioning of course).

Any advice would be helpful and appreciated. Thanks!

You could go with 2 RSL 12s they are 800 each. For the price of 1 HSU you would be getting 2 awesome 12's they are my first choice of recommendation to friends

The 12s is a awesome sub and Audioholics did a review of them on this site

 

[Danzilla31]

RSL Speedwoofer 12S Subwoofer Review - True 16Hz Extension! https://share.google/0srDFEoOmpC66ReIK

 

[Damone5000]

I’m leaning towards 2 12s after reading more reviews. My Arcam A25 has a pre-out but only 1 pair. Would I need an RCA splitter off the amp and then run a pair to each sub?

 

[lovinthehd]

Halfway in the room for seating may not be the best for acoustics, 1/3 or 2/3 positions generally better. Two subs is better IMO, and if of reasonable quality can be quite fine at your budget, too,, altho the price has climbed a bit in recent years. The HSU TN1 looks great so you could try one and save up for another if necessary....but I like the two RSL suggestion more as far as keeping in budget now. If your pre-pro/avr only has capability to set level/delay for one sub, a splitter will work fine. You don't need but one rca to each sub generally, tho

ps was thinking you had an avr, your integrated amp doesn't even have a sub pre-out, just regular ones so splitting the pre-out signals would require two rcas to each sub (assuming you want the sub to sum the signal to mono).

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Subwoofer - Emotiva 12 inch (that just died)

My first ever subwoofer was a passive sub that cost $500. It was a 10” passive sub with an external amp. That was in 1992. I gave it to my brother a long time ago. It still works today.

Last year a friend of mine bought dual Chinese-made powered subs that cost $5,000 each. He thought because of the $10K/2 sub price, the amp was worry-free. 3 months later the sub amps died.

So get a passive sub like I did 33 years ago and never have to worry about the sub-amp dying again.

 

[Eppie]

I’m leaning towards 2 12s after reading more reviews. My Arcam A25 has a pre-out but only 1 pair. Would I need an RCA splitter off the amp and then run a pair to each sub?

Lovin' is correct. Your pre-out is in stereo, so you will need two splitters, one for each left and right channel. Some subwoofers have both a line-level input and output. In that case, you can use one cable from the amp to the first sub and then connect the line-level out to the other sub. Either way, you will want to use both left and right channels in your setup.

 

[Damone5000]

Halfway in the room for seating may not be the best for acoustics, 1/3 or 2/3 positions generally better. Two subs is better IMO, and if of reasonable quality can be quite fine at your budget, too,, altho the price has climbed a bit in recent years. The HSU TN1 looks great so you could try one and save up for another if necessary....but I like the two RSL suggestion more as far as keeping in budget now. If your pre-pro/avr only has capability to set level/delay for one sub, a splitter will work fine. You don't need but one rca to each sub generally, tho

ps was thinking you had an avr, your integrated amp doesn't even have a sub pre-out, just regular ones so splitting the pre-out signals would require two rcas to each sub (assuming you want the sub to sum the signal to mono).

Thank you for confirming, appreciate the info.

 

[Damone5000]

Lovin' is correct. Your pre-out is in stereo, so you will need two splitters, one for each left and right channel. Some subwoofers have both a line-level input and output. In that case, you can use one cable from the amp to the first sub and then connect the line-level out to the other sub. Either way, you will want to use both left and right channels in your setup.

One more reason to go with the 12s, it has HP line outs that I can use to chain the subwoofers.

 

[lovinthehd]

One more reason to go with the 12s, it has HP line outs that I can use to chain the subwoofers.

Even better if the subs can do some bass management since your integrated amp can't....

 

[isolar8001]

One more reason to go with the 12s, it has HP line outs that I can use to chain the subwoofers.

You can chain them with the HP outputs on the Speedwoofer 12S, yes.
But you can also chain them without.
In your case, a normal chain would be preferable since your amp has no LFE/bass management options.
Using the HP output would limit bass to the second sub, which you surely won't want in a 2 channel situation.

 

[lovinthehd]

You can chain them with the HP outputs on the Speedwoofer 12S, yes.
But you can also chain them without.
In your case, a normal chain would be preferable since your amp has no LFE/bass management options.
Using the HP output would limit bass to the second sub, which you surely won't want in a 2 channel situation.

The first sub wouldn't get the HPF? Only provides it to a second sub? Sounds odd....

 

[isolar8001]

The first sub wouldn't get the HPF? Only provides it to a second sub? Sounds odd....

First sub connected from the amp gets whatever the main crossover is set at in his case. (since his amp doesn't do this)
HP outs send whatever it is set at to the second connected sub. (lowest is 30hz, not that he will experience 30hz with music much though)

He would be better off just splitting into two at the amp and set each sub individually based on room interactions.

I haven't looked much at his amp, but his best use of the HP outs would be to cut the bass from his mains, the main use for the feature. (if he has preamp ins)

 

[lovinthehd]

First sub connected from the amp gets whatever the main crossover is set at in his case. (since his amp doesn't do this)
HP outs send whatever it is set at to the second connected sub. (lowest is 30hz, not that he will experience 30hz with music much though)

He would be better off just splitting into two at the amp and set each sub individually based on room interactions.

I haven't looked much at his amp, but his best use of the HP outs would be to cut the bass from his mains, the main use for the feature. (if he has preamp ins)

There is no crossover, unless provided by the sub. His integrated amp doesn't even have a sub pre-out (not even full range, so not even a mono signal available from it)

 

[isolar8001]

There is no crossover, unless provided by the sub. His integrated amp doesn't even have a sub pre-out (not even full range, so not even a mono signal available from it)

The main crossover is on the sub in his case as I said...I already stated he has none on his amp.
You are over complicating this.

 

[lovinthehd]

The main crossover is on the sub in his case as I said...I already stated he has none on his amp.
You are over complicating this.

Must be misreading your post somewhat, don't see any reason not to use the HP feature if both subs can accommodate, or are you recommending a double bass thing?

 

[isolar8001]

Must be misreading your post somewhat, don't see any reason not to use the HP feature if both subs can accommodate, or are you recommending a double bass thing?

He cant go into the HP on the first sub...it's not an input, its an output.
He has to go into the main inputs on the first sub and set the main crossover where he wants.
Using the HP outputs to feed the second sub will limit the second sub to 30hz.
Certainly he doesn't want that.
Maybe he should read the 12S manual...then he would have not even thought of doing this !

 

[lovinthehd]

He cant go into the HP on the first sub...it's not an input, its an output.
He has to go into the main inputs on the first sub and set the main crossover where he wants.
Using the HP outputs to feed the second sub will limit the second sub to 30hz.
Certainly he doesn't want that.
Maybe he should read the 12S manual...then he would have not even thought of doing this !

I guess I'll read this strange manual....

 

[Eppie]

One more reason to go with the 12s, it has HP line outs that I can use to chain the subwoofers.

I will have to check the manual for the 12s but HP usually stands for High Pass, meaning that the lower frequencies are filtered out. You definitely do not want that for the second sub. You need either a low pass out or full range out (no filters). With a full range out (the same as if using a splitter and two cables) you can set the cross over (LP filter point) on each sub separately. If the sub output is LP, then you set the crossover on the first sub and it filters both. It's important to research those details. I would have assumed that the sub output is full range (simply a pass through connection) but Isolar8001 indicates otherwise. If you are wondering why they would high pass, this is so you can connect a preamp to the subwoofer and let the subwoofer act as a crossover, sending the low frequencies to the sub and the higher frequencies to a separate amp driving the main speakers.

 

[isolar8001]

I would have assumed that the sub output is full range (simply a pass through connection) but Isolar8001 indicates otherwise. If you are wondering why they would high pass, this is so you can connect a preamp to the subwoofer and let the subwoofer act as a crossover, sending the low frequencies to the sub and the higher frequencies to a separate amp driving the main speakers.

You are correct.
The main purpose of the HP option on the 12S is to act as an electronic crossover to feed a seperate amp for bass management for the mains.
To avoid this and have the 12S pass the unaltered signal to the second sub is to just not switch the HP on...it switches off.

Best thing for the OP to do is use a splitter on his amp to provide a signal to each sub to set each individually, and not even consider the HP function..in his case, he cant use it for anything.

His mains are going to run full range (double bass) whether he wants them to or not, unless he buys a power amp just for them. That would render his Arcam A25 a preamp then, and I believe he sure doesnt want that !

There is only so much the OP can do with the Arcam A25 in this case, and it ain't much.
But as he states, he already ran a sub and knows this.