Perlisten R212s Subwoofer Review

[highfigh]

A lot of the bass energy from drums comes from the speakers, not the sub. Subs mostly only do deep bass. Much of the punch of drums lay above the 80Hz crossover point that people usually use for subs. Your speakers have to share some of the blame for the lack of punch from your system. The Rel sub definitely isn't going to hit that hard as well. I would upgrade both the speakers and the sub. Get some tower speakers.

Speakers that do a decent job with low frequencies and a great job with midbass can satisfy most people, especially if they aren't aware that there's no subwoofer. Well recorded drums are a really good way to audition speakers and when they can't handle drums, they're not going to be a great choice unless the listener never or rarely listens to music with drums and/or percussion.

 

[MTK]

A lot of the bass energy from drums comes from the speakers, not the sub. Subs mostly only do deep bass. Much of the punch of drums lay above the 80Hz crossover point that people usually use for subs. Your speakers have to share some of the blame for the lack of punch from your system. The Rel sub definitely isn't going to hit that hard as well. I would upgrade both the speakers and the sub. Get some tower speakers.

A kick drum strike hits within a broad frequency range. The impact (sensation) is dominantly below the 80hz crossover point....more like in the 50hz area.

 

[MTK]

You have begun an upgrade journey. I do not know how to stop one of those. I am addicted. If you buy the Arendals they will certainly impress you. They measured well and got a terrific review plus you will be complying with the “forum rule” of two. But the satisfaction will likely be temporary (and that is ok). At some point you will WANT the Perlisten and then another. So in the long scheme of things you might be saving yourself interim expense by buying one Perlisten. But that satisfaction will likely be temporary (and that is ok). And then you can buy the second Perlisten. And then………

Keep in mind that I had my previous setup for 20 something years.
I intend to have all of my setup, except these particular REL subs, for a long time.

 

[highfigh]

A kick drum strike hits within a broad frequency range. The impact (sensation) is dominantly below the 80hz crossover point....more like in the 50hz area.

And the tuning is dependent on the producer's whims- if they want it to be tight & punchy, the kick drum(s) and floor toms won't be tuned low but that puts more pressure on the midbass, to handle the duties.

 

[Maverick71]

Hi James,

Amazing review!

You tested Arendals 1723 series subwoofers that have also low distortion and group delay. I know the Perlisten is twice the price, but how would you rate your experience with the R212 and the 1723 2 subwoofer?

Thanks!

 

[TLS Guy]

Hi James,

Amazing review!

You tested Arendals 1723 series subwoofers that have also low distortion and group delay. I know the Perlisten is twice the price, but how would you rate your experience with the R212 and the 1723 2 subwoofer?

Thanks!

Both of those designs are sealed and good subs. However, sealed subs are costly and not optimal. They are always brute force designs, requiring massive drivers and powerful amplification which adds to cost. The only reason for designing and building a sealed sub is a small foot print and form factor. There is absolutely no other advantage.

Don't get hung up on group delay. There is a lot of nonsense about this. It has to be greater then 30 m/sec to be audible, and that almost never occurs in any sub. So that is essentially an irrelevant spec.

The point of this being, if you have room, you can get as good or better results, at far less cost selecting a good ported sub. To put it bluntly, the whole concept of a sealed sub is awful from an engineering standpoint and would not be considered if not for aesthetics.

 

[shadyJ]

Hi James,

Amazing review!

You tested Arendals 1723 series subwoofers that have also low distortion and group delay. I know the Perlisten is twice the price, but how would you rate your experience with the R212 and the 1723 2 subwoofer?

Thanks!

I only have experience with the 1723 2V as far as the dual-driver Arendal subs go. I can't really speak to the 2S which is what you seem to be referring to. The 2V can't really be fairly compared to the R212 since it uses a ported design. It will have significantly more deep bass output than the R212, but it will have a much larger enclosure.

There is no doubt that the Perlisten sub would be more powerful than the 2S. The drivers are much beefier, as is the amplifier. But we would hope for as much given the price difference.

 

[shadyJ]

Both of those designs are sealed and good subs. However, sealed subs are costly and not optimal. They are always brute force designs, requiring massive drivers and powerful amplification which adds to cost. The only reason for designing and building a sealed sub is a small foot print and form factor. There is absolutely no other advantage.

Don't get hung up on group delay. There is a lot of nonsense about this. It has to be greater then 30 m/sec to be audible, and that almost never occurs in any sub. So that is essentially an irrelevant spec.

The point of this being, if you have room, you can get as good or better results, at far less cost selecting a good ported sub. To put it bluntly, the whole concept of a sealed sub is awful from an engineering standpoint and would not be considered if not for aesthetics.

I kind of agree that sealed subs are inefficient, but in many cases, it is not worth sacrificing floor space for a large subwoofer, so they do make sense. And powerful drivers and big amps are not that rare, so it is not really worth worrying about inefficiency. Class D amps also go a very long way to mitigate enclosure inefficiency. And alternate designs such as ported, PR, or TL only really increase efficiency in deep bass, but not really bass above 40Hz. 40Hz is deeper than most people realize.

Agree about group delay, but group delay can be a problem in cheap subs, so it is still worth examining. For the class of subs that we normally look at here, it is almost never a serious concern.

 

[Maverick71]

I only have experience with the 1723 2V as far as the dual-driver Arendal subs go. I can't really speak to the 2S which is what you seem to be referring to. The 2V can't really be fairly compared to the R212 since it uses a ported design. It will have significantly more deep bass output than the R212, but it will have a much larger enclosure.

There is no doubt that the Perlisten sub would be more powerful than the 2S. The drivers are much beefier, as is the amplifier. But we would hope for as much given the price difference.

Hi,

Thanks for the reply.

Yes, I was referring to the 1723 2S, I should have been mode clear. I know you only had the 2V, but maybe in ported setup they should be similar?

I have always had sealed subs. I don't think that sealed is better or worse than ported, but, for some reason, I've been preferring the sealed ones I test in my demos and that's why I continue to search alternatives with this profile. I currently have JL Audio f112v1. Am curious if the R212 will give me more to what I prefer. Or different in a way I like even better. I'm trying to do a home demo.

 

[Maverick71]

Both of those designs are sealed and good subs. However, sealed subs are costly and not optimal. They are always brute force designs, requiring massive drivers and powerful amplification which adds to cost. The only reason for designing and building a sealed sub is a small foot print and form factor. There is absolutely no other advantage.

Don't get hung up on group delay. There is a lot of nonsense about this. It has to be greater then 30 m/sec to be audible, and that almost never occurs in any sub. So that is essentially an irrelevant spec.

The point of this being, if you have room, you can get as good or better results, at far less cost selecting a good ported sub. To put it bluntly, the whole concept of a sealed sub is awful from an engineering standpoint and would not be considered if not for aesthetics.

Thanks.

Personally, and from my own experience, I've found that ported and sealed have different personalities. Don't think on is better or worse. To be fair, I don't think I ever tested side to side the same sub (ported vs sealed), but, I've been preferring sealed ones vs ported.

It's interesting that Perlisten don't have (yet) any ported sub. They seem to have the technology but for some reason did not come up with a model yet.

Cheers