Passive bi-amping is all good?

GranteedEV

GranteedEV

Audioholic Ninja
All that article told me, is that paradigm thinks their crossovers are best and generic pro audio crossovers won't improve the sound... i hope anyone with sense would know that there's more to a crossover than just symmetrical 4th order electrical filters.

It didn't give me one realistic benefit to a passive bi amping other than "if one amp is clipping, the other is smooth sailing" - to which I say - if you spent money on two pairs of amps that would clip, you probably could have got one amp that won't clip.

I also laugh at the fact that they used HT Bass management as a support for passive bi amping, when on the contrary those are in fact active crossovers, and more importantly, the reason subwoofers need more power is because the LFE channel has 10db more dynamic range than main speakers.
 
Irvrobinson

Irvrobinson

Audioholic Spartan
I have twin stereo amplifiers, and in my testing the results were inconsistent. On my old circa-1996 Legacy Focus speakers, which were supposedly about 95db/2.83v efficient, I was convinced I could discern an advantage from passive vertical bi-amping. Not that it was of the order I could pick out by switching, it was a less fatigue sort of thing over an evening. I find I'm pretty sensitive to listening fatigue, and I'll pay to eliminate it. The Legacy's were odd ducks, ported enclosure, three 12" woofers, two 7" midranges run what seemed like without a high-pass filter, a soft dome tweeter, and a ribbon super-tweeter. The measured impedance was quite low in the bass (dipping to less than 3 ohms, if memory serves), and quite a bit higher impedance in the higher frequencies. I really enjoyed them on solo piano, and they could seriously rock. (Too bad I was never happy with the sound on strings.)

In my Salon 2 experiments with the same amps in vertical bi-amp mode and non-bi-amp mode I can't tell the difference. I almost sold the second amp, but now I run a low-pass filtered signal to the Salon 2 woofers from the DD18+, so two stereo amps are required. (The Salon 2s sound better if the mid-high section is run direct from the pre-amp.) The filtered configuration sounds much better in my room than running the Salon 2 woofers full range.

Mostly I think passive bi-amping is for people with more money than sense, unless you use amps that are cheap compared to your budget. Or you can really convince yourself you're getting a benefit, and even then there's a good chance you're imagining the benefit.
 
D

derrickdj1

Audioholic Intern
Passive Bi-amping

I agree, buy some active crossovers and then you can bi-amp your speakers. Room correction, speaker synergy and speaker placement will do more for the sound in the room than passive bi-amping. I know, this is a hobby and we like to tinker. I think I will take up Chess.
 
lsiberian

lsiberian

Audioholic Overlord
At best it's overkill. At worst it's misplaced money.

why not just go fully active? Minidsp's are cheap and you can voice the crossover for your room that way.
 
agarwalro

agarwalro

Audioholic Ninja
In my last system, the experience was that passive bi-amping made no difference.

Axiom M60 direct vs passive bi-amped using Denon 3806 - no difference.
Added Parasound HCA 2205A using Denon as pre-pro - positive changes in direct amped state.
Axiom M60 direct vs. passive bi-amped using Parasound - no difference.
 
agarwalro

agarwalro

Audioholic Ninja
IMO, the article has only one clear message, that the average audio aficionado is a bumbling fool and brainless follower.
 
H

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
Assuming the speakers' response is good, or even very good with the passive crossover they spent all of that time and money to develop, what special methods and facilities will be used by an amateur to come up with an equivalent active crossover scheme? This isn't a little train set- it requires actual knowledge of how speakers interact with the room, each other and our ears.

Passive crossovers- they're inefficient, can't handle much power and can be damaged by an instantaneous peak in signal level unless they're completely over-built. An active crossover is much better, but it needs to be able to control the speakers to a fine degree which, again, requires the knowledge and facility to create a scheme that will allow the speakers to perform at their best.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
A friend sent me more links from some highly respected companies like KEF & Paradigm:

KEF said:
" What is Bi-Wiring? Bi-Wiring is the use of two pairs of cables between each amplifier channel and the associated loudspeaker. The crossover in a "Bi-Wireable" speaker has two separate earth and or signal paths. By keeping these paths separate all the way back to the amplifier retrieval of fine detail can be improved.

Simply remove the links connecting both positive and negative binding posts together, and run two identical lengths of cable to each speaker from the amplifier output terminals. Special "Bi-Wire" cable is available for a tidier installation.

What is Bi-Amping? Bi-Amping is similar in principle to Bi-Wiring but uses a separate amplifier for each set of terminals. This can give even greater benefits than Bi-Wiring as the smearing of the delicate higher frequency information due to masking from the bass information can be significantly reduced. It is important that the amplifiers used are of the same type, or have matched gains.

Speakers that can be "Bi-Wired" can generally be "Bi-Amped" as the crossover is essentially two or more separate circuits isolated from one another (when the links are removed)."

United Kingdom - Customer Services - FAQ's

Paradigm & Vandersteen also say passive bi-amping helps in some cases:

General FAQs - Should I Bi-wire or Bi-amp my Paradigm® Speakers? - Welcome to the New Official Paradigm® Website.

VANDERSTEEN
 
GranteedEV

GranteedEV

Audioholic Ninja
KEF puts bi/tri wiring posts in because audiophiles expect to SEE them.

... :D This is the same company that puts electrolytic caps in their $5000 bookshelf speakers
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
KEF puts bi/tri wiring posts in because audiophiles expect to SEE them.

... :D This is the same company that puts electrolytic caps in their $5000 bookshelf speakers
They are $6000, thank you very much.:eek:
 

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