Paradigm vs. Definitive Technologies vs. Polk

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Nobody has mentioned axiom. Are they in the same ballfield with the others. I've listended to Paradigm 100's and signatures, but the price is way more than Axiom. I've also had Polk in mind. What would ya'll recommend in the $3000 range?

What if you could own a brand new pair of DefTech BP7000SC for $3K?
20Hz-20kHz +/-3dB @90dB w/m.

I would put the BP7000SCs up against speakers costing $25,000/pr.

 

[Seth=L]

What if you could own a brand new pair of DefTech BP7000SC for $3K?
20Hz-20kHz +/-3dB @90dB w/m.

I would put the BP7000SCs up against speakers costing $25,000/pr.

You would put the Definitive Technology BP7000SCs up against the B&W Nautilus 802s?

Where is WmAx?

 

[gus6464]

You would put the Definitive Technology BP7000SCs up against the B&W Nautilus 802s?

Where is WmAx?

Against a pair of 802D no way no how. The BP7000 are good but not THAT good.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

You would put the Definitive Technology BP7000SCs up against the B&W Nautilus 802s?

Where is WmAx?

Against a pair of 802D no way no how. The BP7000 are good but not THAT good.

Not against this:
http://www.bowers-wilkins.com/display.aspx?infid=1729&terid=1583&sc=ht

But ABSOLUTELY against this:
http://www.bowers-wilkins.com/display.aspx?infid=1157&terid=1263&sc=hf

I suppose subjectively, anyone can argue that a Polk, Axiom, AV123, SVS, Klipsch, Paradigm, Totem, or DefTech is as good as any speaker out there. Subjectively, people may not be able to hear any improvement in speakers costing $175,000. So subjectively, anyone can put their speakers up to any other speakers out there.

But objectively (technical specs), not all B&W 800s are that impressive. The 802D is 34Hz – 28kHz ±3dB on reference axis. Please! What is so special about that? Julian Hirsch independently measured the DefTech BP10 as 25Hz-20kHz ±3dB and the BP8 as 30Hz-20kHz ±3dB. Tom Nousaine independently measured the DefTech CLR3000 CENTER speaker as 28Hz-20kHz ±3dB (2 meters microphone). Home Theater Magazine independently measured the BP7000SC as 22Hz-20kHz ±3dB. I am sure every single B&W sounds extremely impressive SUBJECTIVELY, but anyone can say the same for their favorite speakers.

Now the Nautilus is 40Hz – 20kHz ±1dB and 10Hz-25kHz ±6dB, which is extremely impressive! Inarguably superb Freq Resp. Unquestionable.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

You would put the Definitive Technology BP7000SCs up against the B&W Nautilus 802s?

Where is WmAx?

No, I would not put any speakers up against the B&W Nautilus.
I cannot believe it goes down to 10Hz @ -6dB!
And 40Hz-20kHz +/-1dB? Amazing. I would love to listen to that!

Yes, the B&W Nautilus will sound exceptional anywhere. But here is a question for you.

Tom Nousaine and Home Theater Magazine are well known to disagree with practically EVERY SINGLE F.R. given by ANY speaker company and also other independent labs.

The Audio Critic independently measured the $16,000/pr Bang & Olufsen BeoLab 5 as 18Hz-20kHz +/-3dB. Tom Nousaine measured it to be 29Hz-16kHz +/-3dB and about 20-20kHz +/-8dB!

Tom Nousaine:

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/speakers/2271/test-bench-b-w-cm-series-home-theater-speaker-system.html

B&W CM7 front left/right: 84 Hz to 20 kHz ±5 dB
B&W CM center: 74 Hz to 20 kHz ±4.5 dB
B&W CM1 surround: 78 Hz to 20 kHz ±4.5 dB
B&W ASW750 subwoofer: 31 to 79 Hz ±1.9 dB, 20Hz @ -10dB.

Per B&W:
B&W CM7: 62Hz - 22kHz ±3dB
B&W CM Centre: 55Hz - 22kHz ±3dB
B&W CM1: 55Hz - 22kHz ±3dB
B&W ASW750: 20Hz – 110Hz ±3dB

B&W are a bunch of liars! Those numbers are not even close!
Just like Def Tech, NHT, Bang & Olufsen, and every single speaker company out there!

Def Tech said:
CLR3000 is 28Hz-20kHz +/-3dB
BP10B is 30Hz-20kHz ±3dB
BP7000SC is 20Hz-20kHz ±3dB

Tom Nousaine said the CLR3000 is 28Hz-20kHz ±3dB
Julian Hirsch said the BP10 is 25Hz-20kHz ±3dB
Home Theater Magazine said the BP7000SC is 22Hz-20kHz ±3dB

Hmmm.....

Seems like Def Tech is a lot closer to the independent measurements.

Am I being way OFF?

Do I just need someone to slap some senses into me?

Or do I have a point? A little point?

 

[PENG]

Seems like Def Tech is a lot closer to the independent measurements.

Am I being way OFF?

Do I just need someone to slap some senses into me?

Or do I have a point? A little point?

For speakers in the $3K per pair range, it is to certain extent a subjective thing to say which one sounds better. To me, even the Energy C-9 or Paradigm Studio 100 are better speakers than the similarly priced Def Tech. There is no way I would even bother comparing them with any B&W 800 series speakers. If you like the BP7000 better than even the 804s then that's great for you, but I suspect there are people, including me, who will have to spend a lot more money on speakers to get the same kind of satisfaction.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

For speakers in the $3K per pair range, it is to certain extent a subjective thing to say which one sounds better. To me, even the Energy C-9 or Paradigm Studio 100 are better speakers than the similarly priced Def Tech. There is no way I would even bother comparing them with any B&W 800 series speakers. If you like the BP7000 better than even the 804s then that's great for you, but I suspect there are people, including me, who will have to spend a lot more money on speakers to get the same kind of satisfaction.

Yeah, if money were no object, of course I'm not going to spend just $3K or 4K on my front 2 speakers. If I had the money, I would do $200,000/pr of speakers or at least get the $40,000/pr quad-wire Linn Komri.

No, I would not say that Def Tech is better than B&W. Since B&W make some speakers that are really expensive, I will say that overall, B&W has the edge. The Nautilus looks awesome. But comparing similar price speakers, I personally feel that Def Tech is the best, but that is just my opinion. Purely my subjective opinion.

 

[WmAx]

You would put the Definitive Technology BP7000SCs up against the B&W Nautilus 802s?

Where is WmAx?

The 802D/801D/800D are among the most linear monopole speakers on the market, regardless of cost.

The combination of highly linear drivers and crossover system and extreme low resonance cabinets that produce zero audible timbre distortion result in a true reference device.

Please show me credible 3rd party measurements of the DefTech's at subject here and how they compare. I doubt they come close -- most speakers do not come close to the B&W models I listed; even speakers that cost far more. I don't know of any that actually surpass them, so far as monopoles are concerned.

-Chris

 

[WmAx]

No, I would not say that Def Tech is better than B&W. Since B&W make some speakers that are really expensive, I will say that overall, B&W has the edge.

Cost alone can not determine quality. Consider that Wilson has speakers that are far more expensive than B&W's 802D - yet no Wilson speaker at any cost matches both the linearity and low timbre distortion(due to low resonance) of the 802D.

-Chris

 

[LETHAL]

Why do you do that to me?

You have more SuperTowers than I do!

And you have a HD Projector and a 120" screen!

You suck.

Ummm let me guess!!! I live in Aussie land i earn about 180k a yr (working in a underground coal mine have done for the past 18yrs and im only 36yr old and can afford what ever i want).I have listen to a lot of top end speakers that need mono block amps each side to drive them still at the end of the day and value for money it is hard to beat the def tech 7000sc's.

And in autralia everybody is going mad over these speakers.They sell countless hundreds over here and gee there expensive to.

7000sc rrp 12k
7001 rrp 8k
7002 rrp 5k
7004 rrp 4k

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Ummm let me guess!!! I live in Aussie land i earn about 180k a yr (working in a underground coal mine have done for the past 18yrs and im only 36yr old and can afford what ever i want).I have listen to a lot of top end speakers that need mono block amps each side to drive them still at the end of the day and value for money it is hard to beat the def tech 7000sc's.

And in autralia everybody is going mad over these speakers.They sell countless hundreds over here and gee there expensive to.

7000sc rrp 12k
7001 rrp 8k
7002 rrp 5k
7004 rrp 4k

First, I wish I made $180K a year!

Second, I am glad to know that someone who makes a lot more money than I do still loves the BP7000SCs as much as I do!

Third, damn! $12,000 for a pair of BP7000SCs? That is OUTRAGEOUS!

For some reasons, a lot of people have the misconception that DefTech speakers are great for PARTIES, but not great for High-Fidelity MUSIC. Yes, they can play extremely loud because they are highly sensitive. Yes, they have awesome bass, especially the BP7000SC and BP70001SC. But I know firsthand everyday that these speakers are extremely SMOOTH, CLEAR, and ACCURATE in High-Fidelity MUSIC.

In fact when I uncle came over for vacation and listened to my BP7000SCs, the first thing he said was, "Extremely CLEAR. I have never heard anything this clear before!"

I said to him, "What about the BASS?"

He replied, "OH, yes, the bass is great too, but the voices and music instruments sound so clear and smooth, and that's what I care about the most."

 

[Joe Schmoe]

First, I wish I made $180K a year!

I would be happy with 1/4 that much.

 

[GlocksRock]

Australian dollars aren't equal to US dollars... $1 USD is about $0.87 AUD, but still that's pretty good money to make, and the def tech's are still expensive. I wish I had the room, and money for the BP7000SC towers.

 

[mazersteven]

I live in Aussie land i earn about 180k a yr (working in a underground coal mine have done for the past 18yrs and im only 36yr old and can afford what ever i want)

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I would be happy with 1/4 that much.

It's good to know that whether you make $40K/yr or $180K/yr, DefTech has a great speaker for you. Truly great bang for the bucks.

The BP10 is DefTech's very first speaker, and they certainly made it special. You get more bass in the SuperTowers, but the most important thing about any speaker is the clarity, smoothness, accuracy, soundstaging, and imaging.

I've said this many times before, but I just cannot believe that Julian Hirsch independently measured the BP10 to be 20Hz-20kHz +/-5dB, which is awesome for any speaker without a built-in sub.

By the way, I don't think built-in subs is anything new to the HIGH-END speakers. The Bang & Olusfen BeoLab 5 speakers ($16,000) have built-in subwoofers. The $40,000 Linn Komri has a built-in Subwoofer. The $90K Legacy Audio Helix speakers have powered Subs built-in. The Linkwitz Orion has built-in Sub. I think a lot of them do. Those 1,000+ amps sure weigh a lot and add to the already heavy weight of the cabinet.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Oh, that hurts, Mazer!

Don't we need more trust & love in this world?

It's New Years Eve!

C'mon?

Would you believe me if I said I make $110K a year and I also own a chicken farm that brings in a net $40K/yr and my wife makes $50K/yr?

What do they say Downunder, LETHAL?

I believe you, Mate.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Australian dollars aren't equal to US dollars... $1 USD is about $0.87 AUD, but still that's pretty good money to make, and the def tech's are still expensive. I wish I had the room, and money for the BP7000SC towers.

GlocksRock, your Powerful SVS Sub + the BP10Bs = BP7000SCs! That's what I think! The BP7000SCs may have more Bass than the BP10Bs, but the powerful SVS sub will have more bass than the BP7000SCs. They use the same drivers: 6.5" Midrange/Upper Bass & 1" Tweeters. So they only differ in the Subwoofer.

I like the BP10Bs so much, I just had to have them!

 

[deedubb]

Not against this:
http://www.bowers-wilkins.com/display.aspx?infid=1729&terid=1583&sc=ht

But ABSOLUTELY against this:
http://www.bowers-wilkins.com/display.aspx?infid=1157&terid=1263&sc=hf

I suppose subjectively, anyone can argue that a Polk, Axiom, AV123, SVS, Klipsch, Paradigm, Totem, or DefTech is as good as any speaker out there. Subjectively, people may not be able to hear any improvement in speakers costing $175,000. So subjectively, anyone can put their speakers up to any other speakers out there.

But objectively (technical specs), not all B&W 800s are that impressive. The 802D is 34Hz – 28kHz ±3dB on reference axis. Please! What is so special about that? Julian Hirsch independently measured the DefTech BP10 as 25Hz-20kHz ±3dB and the BP8 as 30Hz-20kHz ±3dB. Tom Nousaine independently measured the DefTech CLR3000 CENTER speaker as 28Hz-20kHz ±3dB (2 meters microphone). Home Theater Magazine independently measured the BP7000SC as 22Hz-20kHz ±3dB. I am sure every single B&W sounds extremely impressive SUBJECTIVELY, but anyone can say the same for their favorite speakers.

Now the Nautilus is 40Hz – 20kHz ±1dB and 10Hz-25kHz ±6dB, which is extremely impressive! Inarguably superb Freq Resp. Unquestionable.

I don't disagree that DT makes great speakers, but I think you rely too much on numbers which IMO, really don't tell you anything at all. I've heard speakers which have reasonable freq response on paper but sound absolutely terrible, and vice versa.

As to the original post, the most important thing is to audition them yourself. Never purchase speakers based on other people's opinions. Use their opinion to help guide you towards which speakers you should audition, but in the end, you have to live with them.

Personally, I'm not a big fan of Polk, but Def Tech and Paradigm make great speakers. I would also suggest listening to PSB. PSB Stratus Gold's (which are now out of production) are one of my favourite speakers of all time, and they were an absolute bargain in their day.

 

[GlocksRock]

I like the BP10Bs so much, I just had to have them!

I'm surprised you haven't sold your two pairs of studio monitors and bought a second pair of BP10s for your surround back speakers... but I guess it's also nice having 4 surround back speakers, I guess you could have two facing forward, and two facing the back and have a makeshift bipolar studio monitor design!

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I'm surprised you haven't sold your two pairs of studio monitors and bought a second pair of BP10s for your surround back speakers... but I guess it's also nice having 4 surround back speakers, I guess you could have two facing forward, and two facing the back and have a makeshift bipolar studio monitor design!

I thought about replacing the four SM450s with two BP10Bs, but having 4 surround backs looks very interesting. Well, you know how it is--the relentless pursuit of perfection? Kind of like Lexus?

Actually I was trying turn my room into the Trinity Church of New York -- they have the BP10Bs, SM450s, Trinity Subs, and the BP30s. I guess the BP7000SCs can substitute for the BP30s (since they no longer make them)?