Paradigm Studio 60s Price

[billingb]

This is my first post, but I read A LOT of threads while deciding what to go listen to. So first I want to say thanks to everyone who has posted helpful information on floor standing speakers in the 1-2.2k range!

Anyway, I finally decided on a pair of Paradigm Studio 60s which I really liked the best by a decent margin. The place I listened to them treated me great, and I was really happy with my experience. I have a question though. The dealer put the list price for these at $1700 for the pair, but everywhere else seems to have them listed at $1500-$1600. I don't want to be a jerk, but I don't want to get ripped off either. There is another store around with awful service that lists the same speaker at $1500 and is willing to deal to go below that.

I also decided to not even listen to the Studio 100s because I thought they were well out of my price range at $2400, but now I wonder if that price is inflated.

So I have two questions. One, what is the MSRP for Studio 60s (I can't actually find a value anywhere, but if this forum fails me I will call around to different dealers and see what the consensus is).

Two, how much is a reasonable discount from a dealer off of list price. Like I said, I really liked this place and they had the best service by far of the five places I went to. I am willing to pay more to buy my gear at their store, but I don't want to pay more then I should. Every dollar saved helps me toward the matching center, surround and a new sub. I don't know how much the dealer/store get from a sale or what the expectation is in this buissness. I am sure they won't make me deal

Last, should I give the studio 100s a listen. I had put $2200 (the 704s) as the absolute top of my price range, and I really would like to stay under 2k.

Thanks!

 

[ht_addict]

What is going to be your main use for the speakers(HT/Music/Both)? With a price range of under $2k why not look at a Studio 20/sub combo instead of just the 60's. You would be getting the same tweeter/midrange you like with better bass from a sub. Just my 2cents.

 

[Johnd]

'digms are typically sold at 20%-30% off msrp. Try one of the vendors here, or pm me and I'll shoot you a dealer. I have the Studio 100's, and I love their sound (for both music and movies). Just listen before you buy!

 

[billingb]

What is going to be your main use for the speakers(HT/Music/Both)?

Although it will be both, the music performance is a lot more important too me then the HT performance.

With a price range of under $2k why not look at a Studio 20/sub combo instead of just the 60's. You would be getting the same tweeter/midrange you like with better bass from a sub. Just my 2cents.

I guess that I should go give this option a listen with one of their subs. I have always felt that a floorstander with sub gives a better sound then a book shelf with sub, but I have never honestly done a very good comparison.

What is the general opinion on this. If I am going to get a sub anyway am I better off with bookshelf speakers?

 

[Johnd]

If "music performance is a lot more important", than I suggest you get the best pair of mains you can afford. Main speakers last decades, if they are of good build quality. You are not apt to change them anytime soon, and will have ample bass for all musical situations.

However, like htaddict recommended, the 20's are a very good speaker. Pairing them up with a servo 15 v2 would be awesome, and would just push you over the 2k limit you have noted (maybe put in a few overtime hours so you get what you want the first time).

 

[Nick250]

For the past six years I have had Studio 20s vr2 with a Hsu VTF2. I love the sound and have had no real urges to upgrade. I have not listened to the Studio 40s or 60s so I am no help there. I listen mostly to music, but that being said I have to say that having a sub for the LFEs in movies is great fun. At this point I would not consider having setup without a powered sub. Anyway, it might be worth a listen to 20s with a sub and compare them to the 60s without.

About the price issue. If I were in your shoes, I would check with other dealers to see what the best price is and then go back to the dealer you like and say something like "I have checked around at other Paradigm dealers this is what I was quoted but I would much rather do business with you, can you live with this price?" I am sure they will do the best they can to have you as a customer.

 

[boostedmaniac]

I went to two shops and like you said, I saw the 60s at $1600/pair and another at $1700/pair. I just think some shops mark the stuff up higher. You may be able to wheel and deal with them some. The sales guy seemed much nicer at the more expensive shop, and I mentioned to him that I was planning on buying the entire HT set (60s, CC470 center, ADP470 surround) all at the same time and asked him if he could give me a deal on it. Even though all the speakers were about $50-100 more than the other shops, he was willing to give me a discount that actually made it $150 cheaper overall than the "cheaper" shop if I add all the prices up. You may ask if they are willing to come down in price some.

 

[ht_addict]

Although it will be both, the music performance is a lot more important too me then the HT performance.



I guess that I should go give this option a listen with one of their subs. I have always felt that a floorstander with sub gives a better sound then a book shelf with sub, but I have never honestly done a very good comparison.

What is the general opinion on this. If I am going to get a sub anyway am I better off with bookshelf speakers?

If your main use is going to be music then I would most definetly go 20's and sub. When your at the dealers checkout a combo of 20/CC470/PW2100. You maybe able to package them for just under $2k

 

[jcPanny]

Slightly used paradigms

If you really want the Studio 60's or 100's and they are out of your budget then you should consider a slightly used pair off of audiogon.com

 

[billingb]

Why would you definitely go 20s and Sub. Let me be clear here, the question is not wether or not I will get a sub, it is when I will get a sub. I currently have a low end Klipsch sub, but I am not sure it will help or hurt with the 60s. My plan had been to get the 60s, and then get a 1-1.5k sub (or cheaper if it does what I want).

I will be building a complete 5.1 system, but I really want the fronts now instead of waiting until I can afford the whole thing. I will however be adding the matching center, rears and a sub (current top picks are REL, velodyne and the Paradigm subs).

Also, $1700 is not out of my budget, and I don't have a problem buying them at this store that has treated me well, they deserve something for their time and I think it is wrong to go somewhere else unless they won't come close to a price I can get else where. My query was more to the question of how much is reasonable to try to talk them down. It sounds like that is in the 10-30% range from what you all have said.

 

[ht_addict]

Why would you definitely go 20s and Sub. Let me be clear here, the question is not wether or not I will get a sub, it is when I will get a sub. I currently have a low end Klipsch sub, but I am not sure it will help or hurt with the 60s. My plan had been to get the 60s, and then get a 1-1.5k sub (or cheaper if it does what I want).

I will be building a complete 5.1 system, but I really want the fronts now instead of waiting until I can afford the whole thing. I will however be adding the matching center, rears and a sub (current top picks are REL, velodyne and the Paradigm subs).

Also, $1700 is not out of my budget, and I don't have a problem buying them at this store that has treated me well, they deserve something for their time and I think it is wrong to go somewhere else unless they won't come close to a price I can get else where. My query was more to the question of how much is reasonable to try to talk them down. It sounds like that is in the 10-30% range from what you all have said.

You said you want too keep your budget under $2k and I thought that the combo of 20/CC470/PW2100 should be able too be bundled for $2k or less. The 20's are an excellent speaker and since your going with a sub down the road, which means you'd probably be using a crossover off 80hz, I just think that the bass in the 60's will be wasted. You also haven't mentioned what your using to power the speakers. Checkout the following link to a review over at Secrets for a 20/CC470 setup. http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_12_2/paradigm-reference-20-470-speakers-5-2005.html

 

[billingb]

You said you want too keep your budget under $2k and I thought that the combo of 20/CC470/PW2100 should be able too be bundled for $2k or less. The 20's are an excellent speaker and since your going with a sub down the road, which means you'd probably be using a crossover off 80hz, I just think that the bass in the 60's will be wasted

Sorry, I want to keep the mains under 2k, I plan to spend more then that for the entire system but I am only really concerned with mains for now. If I did decide to go with bookshevles then I would look at trying to get a sub as well, so I appriciate the suggestion.

I am currently using a Denon 2106, which will likely start a whole new thread of conversation on what I am doing. My plan is to continue to use that to drive my speakers until I reach a point where I feel it is letting me down, or until I finish putting together the speakers for my system at which point I will look at different replacements. I know the 2106 is not a high end unit, but it was a huge improvement over my old amp that was very noticable with my low end klipsch (current system). It was my first experience that showed that spending money on the amp was really money well spent and not a lesson I am soon to forget. For those that don't know the 2106 claims to be 100x7

 

[ht_addict]

Sorry, I want to keep the mains under 2k, I plan to spend more then that for the entire system but I am only really concerned with mains for now. If I did decide to go with bookshevles then I would look at trying to get a sub as well, so I appriciate the suggestion.

I am currently using a Denon 2106, which will likely start a whole new thread of conversation on what I am doing. My plan is to continue to use that to drive my speakers until I reach a point where I feel it is letting me down, or until I finish putting together the speakers for my system at which point I will look at different replacements. I know the 2106 is not a high end unit, but it was a huge improvement over my old amp that was very noticable with my low end klipsch (current system). It was my first experience that showed that spending money on the amp was really money well spent and not a lesson I am soon to forget. For those that don't know the 2106 claims to be 100x7

If your budget is $2k for the mains only then you should look at the 100's, though with the Denon 2106 you hit that wall of underpowering instantly, unless you use a crossover of at 80hz, use your sub and keep the volume low. Another combo you may want too look at is Studio 40's/CC570. Down the road add a Servo 15 and surrounds.

 

[AVRat]

If you want the 60s, go for it and shoot for $1600 price tag.

 

[joebob]

I went to the Paradigm dealer the other day. I was comparing the 60s with the 40s. I didn't even bother to listen to the 20s. With or without the sub, the 60s sounded much better, even though the drivers are the same. The problem with bookshelves, the dealer explained, is that they lack mid bass. So you get high end, midrange and low bass, but the sound just isn't nearly as full as with a floorstander.

As far as price, the guy told me he could cut me a deal if I bought a whole 5.1 set but full retail for just the pair.

btw I also checked out the monitor line. They sound like garbage compared to the studios.

 

[corysmith01]

The problem with bookshelves, the dealer explained

The problem with that is that the dealer doesn't have to live with your speakers. I wouldn't let a dealer explain to me why I should or shouldn't like a speaker. I'd let me ears do the deciding. You wrote off the 20's, without listening to them, based on the advice of a dealer who a) won't be living in your home and listening to the speakers you end up purchasing and b) has no reason not to try to sell you on a higher model.

I would listen politely to the dealer, but I certainly wouldn't let his personal tastes/biases/preferences make decisions for me. In the end, you have to make yourself happy, not the dealer.

 

[rynberg]

1. Paradigm recently raised the MSRP of the Studio 60 to $1700. That is the current MSRP. Paradigm dealers will typically knock 10-15% off, but that's not a guarantee. I would rather pay $75-100 more at a great dealer than give a lesser dealer the sale.

2. A larger speaker will almost always be better with a sub than a bookshelf/sub combo. A crossover is not a brick wall. Even with an 80 Hz crossover, the speaker will still have decent output at 50-60 Hz at loud levels. The 60 is much more capable at those frequencies than the 20.

3. IMO, a receiver is not capable of truly powering the 100s. The 100s have a difficult impedance load and are not really suitable for receivers. Some people do run this setup, but I guarantee they're not getting the best sound out of them and they are really stressing their receivers. Stick with the 60s unless you are going with a separate amp.

 

[ht_addict]

The problem with bookshelves, the dealer explained, is that they lack mid bass. So you get high end, midrange and low bass, but the sound just isn't nearly as full as with a floorstander.

Has your dealer even bothered to listen to the speakers? From my sig you can see I have the 40's which have plenty of bass. Here's a quote I took from Secrets review off the 20's.

For the majority of the review, we ran the 20s full range. On several occasions I had to verify, and re-verify, that the configuration was correct, i.e., that the subwoofer was off. Flabbergasted, I dug out the sine wave sweeps and nearly wept openly as this relatively small speaker reached down with credibility to the 30s, defying the preconceived notions of what can be squeezed from a 7" driver. Yes, the bass is that deep, that latent. In fact, this is the best bass, both in terms of quality and quantity, that I have ever hear from a "bookshelf" speaker, including a few models costing more than twice as much. By and large, in the near field roll, I could be perfectly satisfied without a subwoofer. In larger rooms of course (or for irresponsible playback levels) some bottom end support is warranted.

All I'm saying is if your going to be using a sub and from what your saying a highend sub down the road, your better off saving some money on the mains(get the 40's or 20's) and put the money towards the Servo-15 sub(its a beast).

 

[ht_addict]

1. Paradigm recently raised the MSRP of the Studio 60 to $1700. That is the current MSRP. Paradigm dealers will typically knock 10-15% off, but that's not a guarantee. I would rather pay $75-100 more at a great dealer than give a lesser dealer the sale.

Its your money. Go with the cheapest price, there the same product at both dealers and if something does go wrong which is highly unlikely your dealer will take care off you. Otherwise a simple call to Paradigm will change their mind.

2. A larger speaker will almost always be better with a sub than a bookshelf/sub combo. A crossover is not a brick wall. Even with an 80 Hz crossover, the speaker will still have decent output at 50-60 Hz at loud levels. The 60 is much more capable at those frequencies than the 20.

Take note off my response above regarding the S&V review. Plenty off bass with the 20's Not to mention the 20/40/60 share the same crossover for tweeter to mid and the 40/60 also same for bass driver. So the roll-off should be similar.

3. IMO, a receiver is not capable of truly powering the 100s. The 100s have a difficult impedance load and are not really suitable for receivers. Some people do run this setup, but I guarantee they're not getting the best sound out of them and they are really stressing their receivers. Stick with the 60s unless you are going with a separate amp.

If your stressing a receiver then your clipping it. If your not clipping it your not stressing it and thus powering the 100's with no problem. If you think the 100's have a tough impedance checkout the 40's(min 3 to nominal 5ohm)

 

[PENG]

1. Paradigm recently raised the MSRP of the Studio 60 to $1700. That is the current MSRP. Paradigm dealers will typically knock 10-15% off, but that's not a guarantee. I would rather pay $75-100 more at a great dealer than give a lesser dealer the sale.

3. IMO, a receiver is not capable of truly powering the 100s. The 100s have a difficult impedance load and are not really suitable for receivers. Some people do run this setup, but I guarantee they're not getting the best sound out of them and they are really stressing their receivers. Stick with the 60s unless you are going with a separate amp.

Last time I auditioned the whole line of the Studios and a pair of S2, it was in a room of approx. 15X20 ft. The speakers were powered with a Yamaha receiver (RX-V2400) and then a pair of Athem separates. The difference in sound quality was hardly noticeable. The RX-V seemed to have more than enough power for the 100s. The whole session was focussed on 2 channel music only. A separate amp may in fact be needed for 5.1/7.1 setup especially if the room is larger.

By the way, Paradigm dealers outside of Canada may have to raise the prices because of the recent rise of the Canadian dollars againt the USD.