Paradigm 20's vs B&W CM5's vs KEF IQ3's

G

griffinconst

Senior Audioholic
Some very good people pleaded with me to check out AudiogoN before buying new speakers. I was hesitant, but I did come here looking for advice from knowledgable people, right? So I checked out AudiogoN and what did my eyes behold? Someone selling a pair of Paradigm 20's v.4 for $660, including shipping.

Since I heard the 20's last Saturday at a dealer, I was immediately struck. I did have my heart set on the B&W CM5's, but for $850 less, I thought the v.4Paradigm's were a wise choice (only a year old.) The seller posted pics of the speakers from every angle, rated them a 10/10 and has a seller rating of 42. I was very pleased with all that and felt secure in making an offer, which was accepted.

Now I have to start researching receivers and hope that down the road, I can find a pair of 10's for surrounds.
Alright!! I love stories where someone gets what they like and at a great deal. Those are definitley speakers you can build a system around, but I don't have to tell you that, you've heard them. Congratulations.

I've got to tell you we dodged a bullet. I don't know lsiberian very well and was pushing my luck calling him Isi but when you refered to him that way as well, I thought we would hear about it. Besides, I think his name starts with an L not an I, he wouldn't tell me. Very mysterious don't you know?:D
 
G

griffinconst

Senior Audioholic
Even listening to the higher end speakers will give you an idea for the sound of KEFs.

Besides you won't suffer from demoing nice speakers. Of course you may be like me and scare off salesman with my laptop and SPL meter handy. :)
I think it's the nuclear powered SPL meter that scares them.:D
 
Npeart

Npeart

Junior Audioholic
Alright!! I love stories where someone gets what they like and at a great deal. Those are definitley speakers you can build a system around, but I don't have to tell you that, you've heard them. Congratulations.

I've got to tell you we dodged a bullet. I don't know lsiberian very well and was pushing my luck calling him Isi but when you refered to him that way as well, I thought we would hear about it. Besides, I think his name starts with an L not an I, he wouldn't tell me. Very mysterious don't you know?:D
Well, I did and I didn't. I heard the v.5's - not the v.4's, which is what I bought. That said, I have read quite a bit about people liking the v.4's better, so I'm encouraged by that. I did see the same set on ebay for $50.00 less, so that gave me heartburn, but I'm satisfied I still got a good deal. The v.4's retail for a grand, while the v.5's are $1,200.

OK, now which receiver? I know I want a receiver with the following features: 7.1 HDMI, IPOD ready, HD radio tuner, preout for an amp should I choose to add one, and the complete Audessy suite. The Denon and Paradigms will not match well? I like the look of the Yammy's best, but they seem to be lacking enough HDMI inputs except in the higher end models. So I'm conflicted.

Anyone care to suggest a great receiver in the $700.00 range?

LOL, I wasn't trying to offend lsiberian by calling him Isi. The man has offered great advice, though, I'll say that. All you guys have been terrific.
 
G

griffinconst

Senior Audioholic
Onkyo tends to have lots of bang for the buck. Give them a look, I love my 805.
I like the v4's you bought but that's just me. Probably you too.:)
 
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J

jostenmeat

Audioholic Spartan
I also use an 805 (even just as dedicated pre/pro), and it serves me perfectly fine, however it runs pretty hot which might bother you in your smaller space.

So, I would, in your shoes, consider a Denon 2809, or perhaps a 3808 if you can pony up a bit more.

I am an Audyssey fanboi, so take with salt. Denon because it offers XT with good rep, reliability, and doesn't run hot. Marantz doesn't offer XT, and I'm not comfortable yet in recommending NAD electronics, although I have a NAD amp that is great. OTOH, NAD offers additional target curves, namely one designed by PSB. Don't think those fall into budget though.

Other RC techs that I'd love to learn more about are ARC and Trinnov, but I like my Audyssey XT for now. OTOH, the Dyn Vol/EQ would much more likely benefit you than me.
 
G

griffinconst

Senior Audioholic
Didn't they fix the heat issue after the '5' models?
I believe he needs a newer model anyway to get all the goodies he wants.
 
Npeart

Npeart

Junior Audioholic
Didn't they fix the heat issue after the '5' models?
I believe he needs a newer model anyway to get all the goodies he wants.
Yeah, reading through the reviews of Onkyo, Denon and Yamaha there seems to be something wrong with each of them. Even the fabled Auydessy system is shunned by reviewers as tainting the sound. Not to mention assigning settings to speakers that aren't correct only leaving the owner to have to adjust manually in the end.

:rolleyes:
 
J

jostenmeat

Audioholic Spartan
Even the fabled Auydessy system is shunned by reviewers as tainting the sound.
Can you please link these reviews? I'd like to know who mistakes accurate reproduction as tainted sound, so that I can be forewarned when I come across them. :rolleyes: I mean do they actually prefer zero EQ? Or they simply prefer different EQ products (which)?

Not to mention assigning settings to speakers that aren't correct only leaving the owner to have to adjust manually in the end.

:rolleyes:
Selecting xover point is pretty easy peezy. In any case, it's a whole lot easier than being successfully proficient with audio test equipment, knowing how to correlate data sampled at various locations and interpret the findings, and then be able to build filters that would yield the desired results. :rolleyes:

And in the end, it's not Audyssey's fault anyways. You can blame the receiver manufacturers for any fault of implementation. :rolleyes: Audyssey gives the identical codes/algorithms to every manufacturer for any given product.

The main knock on Audyssey is lack of tweaking flexibility. Otherwise, it successfully does what it was designed to do. One of the most common complaints about the lack of tweaking has to do with not being able to cut off correction at any particular high frequency, being the Schroeder transition frequency of any room.

However, I have been informed, that even with the ARC correction available in Anthem's top end ($$$$) are users finding themselves correcting for a much larger bandwidth than expected.

It is the very, very rare room that doesn't benefit from EQ, even with a large bandwidth. When I mean rare, I'm probably* talking about ceilings well over 8 ft, with a length greater than 2x the width, with a minimum of 30 treatments. I've jibber jabbered with a few people who have about 35-40 treatments, and a couple of those people still apply XT.

What's REALLY great about XT is how affordable it can be. I got it in a $600 refurbed receiver. It's pretty hard for me to complain about setting a xover, or being able to adjust high freq cutoff, when considering the very modest amount of money spent towards RC. :rolleyes:
 
lsiberian

lsiberian

Audioholic Overlord
Can you please link these reviews? I'd like to know who mistakes accurate reproduction as tainted sound, so that I can be forewarned when I come across them. :rolleyes: I mean do they actually prefer zero EQ? Or they simply prefer different EQ products (which)?



Selecting xover point is pretty easy peezy. In any case, it's a whole lot easier than being successfully proficient with audio test equipment, knowing how to correlate data sampled at various locations and interpret the findings, and then be able to build filters that would yield the desired results. :rolleyes:

And in the end, it's not Audyssey's fault anyways. You can blame the receiver manufacturers for any fault of implementation. :rolleyes: Audyssey gives the identical codes/algorithms to every manufacturer for any given product.

The main knock on Audyssey is lack of tweaking flexibility. Otherwise, it successfully does what it was designed to do. One of the most common complaints about the lack of tweaking has to do with not being able to cut off correction at any particular high frequency, being the Schroeder transition frequency of any room.

However, I have been informed, that even with the ARC correction available in Anthem's top end ($$$$) are users finding themselves correcting for a much larger bandwidth than expected.

It is the very, very rare room that doesn't benefit from EQ, even with a large bandwidth. When I mean rare, I'm probably* talking about ceilings well over 8 ft, with a length greater than 2x the width, with a minimum of 30 treatments. I've jibber jabbered with a few people who have about 35-40 treatments, and a couple of those people still apply XT.

What's REALLY great about XT is how affordable it can be. I got it in a $600 refurbed receiver. It's pretty hard for me to complain about setting a xover, or being able to adjust high freq cutoff, when considering the very modest amount of money spent towards RC. :rolleyes:
AS XT is probably the best feature in a modern AVR for a non tweaker. It's unnecessary for some of us, but for your standard Joe it's great if run properly. Problem is many people don't know how to run AS properly and those that do tend not to need it anyway. Of course for professional installers I imagine its a life saver.

Crossovers can't really be set without listening IMO. With critical listening I determine my crossovers. My speakers just sound bad crossed too low.
I had a $400 dollar receiver and it's nice. I had a seamless sounds stage using it. Of course I followed the instructions and used 8-points.

Some here don't like AS and they have a reliable opinion, but I'm willing to bet many of them would suggest it for those folks that just want an easy eq solution.
 
J

jostenmeat

Audioholic Spartan
AS XT is probably the best feature in a modern AVR for a non tweaker. It's unnecessary for some of us, but for your standard Joe it's great if run properly. Problem is many people don't know how to run AS properly and those that do tend not to need it anyway. Of course for professional installers I imagine its a life saver.
For me, it's the best feature in an affordable* receiver, for tweakers and non-tweakers alike. There are those who have done extensive measurements, REW, implementing Behringer products, etc, etc, and end up preferring AS' accuracy over their own. Including some pretentious curmudgeons, believe it or not.

For the few who do eschew AS as a feature in an affordable receiver, my guess is that they eschew all features in general.
 
G

griffinconst

Senior Audioholic
Hey N
Those last guys know what they're talking about but to put all that into english...don't be afraid of audessey, it's a great thing. If your not happy with the settings you can run it again or set them yourself. It has always done a good job for me and I change my fronts quarterly.
See what I mean about the nuclear powered SPL meter?:D
 
Npeart

Npeart

Junior Audioholic
Hey N
Those last guys know what they're talking about but to put all that into english...don't be afraid of audessey, it's a great thing. If your not happy with the settings you can run it again or set them yourself. It has always done a good job for me and I change my fronts quarterly.
See what I mean about the nuclear powered SPL meter?:D
hahahah. . .yes, sir. I do.

I am definitely going to buy a receiver that has Audessey, so no worries. The new Denon AVR 1900 looks great, but no HD radio or pre outs :mad:

I can always get an HD tuner, I suppose. But here's a very important question for you guys:

I want to listen to my music in 2 channel, well, because I think that's the way music is supoosed to be heard, as opposed to surround. So, if there is no preout for an amp to run two channel, do I just rely on the 2 channel setting (assuming there is one) on the receiver? I can't imagine it would sound as good as having a dedicated amp for 2 chan listening.

Suggestions?
 
G

griffinconst

Senior Audioholic
A few clicks on the remote and the receiver is in 2 channel mode. That dennon should sound fine. You can always add an amp a few years down the road if you get the bug.
You're an Audioholic now, we always get the bug, or the bug gets us.:eek:
It's a beautiful thing!
 
A

audio013

Banned
Yep,i was impressed with how good they sounded at the display station at best buy that i decided to get them from audiosolutions in Sydney.
 
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