Pair a PC12-NSD with PB-1000?

[jaydee77ca]

Hi,

I have an SVS PB-1000 already and I really like it. I happen to have a chance to pick up a used PC12-NSD for $499 CAD. I'm wondering if that would be ok to pair with the PB-1000 or should I get a second PB-1000 for $760 CAD?

Thanks!

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[GrimSurfer]

The second PB-1000 would probably be easier to integrate, sound wise.

 

[shadyJ]

They are actually very close in performance. The PC12 will have a bit more powerful deep bass, but yes, you could run them together with no problem.

 

[Ed Mullen]

The even though both are ported SVS's with a similar tuning frequency - they will not have the same acoustic phase response. This is due to the differences in the internal flash files (PEQ, HPF/LPF) and the differences in exact system tuning (they are a few Hz apart).

While you'll definitely see an increase in overall subwoofer output, there will be at least some phase-related cancellation between the two subs which wouldn't otherwise exist with two of the same exact model.

You'll get the best results (from an integration standpoint) with dual PB-1000s or dual PC12-NSDs. But we can assist you with phasing to the extent possible if you want to mix the two in your system.

 

[GrimSurfer]

That was certainly my understanding, Ed... and you know your products better than the rest of us.

Thanks for clarifying.

 

[Ed Mullen]

That was certainly my understanding, Ed... and you know your products better than the rest of us.

Thanks for clarifying.

The more I dig into the phase responses, the more reluctant I become to recommend anything but the same exact brand/model for duals.

Even the PC13-Ultra and PC-4000 - which are physical clones but have different amps - have different phase responses and will have partial phase cancellation over certain bandwidths.

 

[shadyJ]

The more I dig into the phase responses, the more reluctant I become to recommend anything but the same exact brand/model for duals.

Even the PC13-Ultra and PC-4000 - which are physical clones but have different amps - have different phase responses and will have partial phase cancellation over certain bandwidths.

Of course, the ideal is to have identical subs in a multisub system, but the room acoustics of low frequencies mangles the response so badly that some phase mismatch probably isn't going to be a big deal in comparison. One interesting test would be to have a PC13-Ultra and PC-4000 side by side in a groundplane setting, simultaneously playing the same measurement sweep to see the effect on the response.

 

[GrimSurfer]

Sigh...

 

[jaydee77ca]

Turns out the PC12-NSD is actually not in workable condition so it's an even easier decision. I appreciate the feedback. I will continue to save for a second PB-1000!

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[Ed Mullen]

Of course, the ideal is to have identical subs in a multisub system, but the room acoustics of low frequencies mangles the response so badly that some phase mismatch probably isn't going to be a big deal in comparison. One interesting test would be to have a PC13-Ultra and PC-4000 side by side in a groundplane setting, simultaneously playing the same measurement sweep to see the effect on the response.

We have an international customer (who has REW and UMIK-1) with quad subs in his system - dual PC13U and dual PC4K. We advised him to place a sub in each corner of the room for exactly the reasons you stated above - room modes do indeed tend to mask phase-related cancellation between the two models - and he was able to achieve a decent-looking FR at the MLP.

His electronics provider (who shall remain unnamed) advised him to place the four subs into the front corners (PC13U/PC4K and PC13U/PC4K) for 'better time alignment with the front channels'. I predicted this would be disastrous for a number of reasons - including phase cancellation between the two models.

He ran some REW sweeps of just a pair of co-located PC13U/PC4K and sure enough there was significant phase cancellation over certain bandwidths. If he adjusted the phase control on one of the subwoofers, this merely shifted the cancellations to different frequency bands. Suffice it to say - he immediately went back to placing the subs in the four corners of the room.

 

[RTG]

I currently have a 7.2.2 setup with Klipsch RP’s and dual SVS PB1000. AVR is Denon 4300. I’m either looking to add more Atmos speakers but I really love how everything sounds from that perspective or looking at adding an SVS PC 2000 behind my sectional. I’ve been using Audyssey XT32 with DEQ for many years until recently upgrading with the app. I limited MultiEQ to 500hz and turned off DEQ. I didnt realize how much DEQ was messing up Atmos in my room. It completely drowned out my upfiring modules. Now everything is balanced perfectly, my speakers are night and day clearer and the modules sound 100 times better. I prefer Flat bass so haven’t increased sub gains. My bass is much more nuanced and detailed and no longer bloated but I can’t help but think adding a PC 2000 behind my couch will bring it to another level. My dual PB1000 are on my front wall.

Thoughts? Would 3 subs be an ok idea, especially positioned behind?