Paging TLS....cartridges

[3db]

I've had my ProJect Xpression II for three years equipped with an Orotofon OM10 cartridge. I play/played on average one album a night. My budget is approximately $100 Cdn to replace the stylus. I spoke with the dealer that sold me the turntable and he offered me these options:

a) Replacement stylus is $50
b) Upgrade to the OM20 styli for $249
c) Upgrade to the Ortofon Blue for $100
d) Upgrade to the Ortofon Red for $200

I have no complaints with Ortofon10 with the exception that it really picks up on record noise. Option B and D are out from a budget constraint. The dealer said that the Ortofon Red will bring less of that record nosie to the surface. Is this possible without degrading the mids and the highs. I'm toying with Option C but in the dealers opinion, the improvemnt is only minimal. Maybe I should go with option A and save some coin to get option D at a later point. Like I said, the Orotfon 10 does a great job flushing out details ansd nuances from vinyl but it also brings out the record noise as well. Can I get the same detail with the Ortofon red without the record noise as the dealer stated? Turntables and cartrdges are all mechanical or electro-mechanical so I can see variances in the mechanical aspect greatly influencing the sound.

 

[TLS Guy]

I've had my ProJect Xpression II for three years equipped with an Orotofon OM10 cartridge. I play/played on average one album a night. My budget is approximately $100 Cdn to replace the stylus. I spoke with the dealer that sold me the turntable and he offered me these options:

a) Replacement stylus is $50
b) Upgrade to the OM20 styli for $249
c) Upgrade to the Ortofon Blue for $100
d) Upgrade to the Ortofon Red for $200

I have no complaints with Ortofon10 with the exception that it really picks up on record noise. Option B and D are out from a budget constraint. The dealer said that the Ortofon Red will bring less of that record nosie to the surface. Is this possible without degrading the mids and the highs. I'm toying with Option C but in the dealers opinion, the improvemnt is only minimal. Maybe I should go with option A and save some coin to get option D at a later point. Like I said, the Orotfon 10 does a great job flushing out details ansd nuances from vinyl but it also brings out the record noise as well. Can I get the same detail with the Ortofon red without the record noise as the dealer stated? Turntables and cartrdges are all mechanical or electro-mechanical so I can see variances in the mechanical aspect greatly influencing the sound.

I think you have the Blue and Red prices reversed. I would definitely go for the Blue or Red.

Cartridges can increase surface noise. Cheaper cartridges often have a nasty HF lift which can emphasize surface noise. However to get noise at all there has to be dirt deep in the grooves in the first place.

When it comes to turntables cartridges are not a place to stint, I can tell you that.

 

[highfigh]

I agree about the cartridge being an item to "go big, or go home". This and the speakers make the most difference in how the system sounds and no other pieces of the system can vary as much. You also might look at the Sumiko Pearl for moving magnet and Denon DL-110 for moving coil. They're both in this price range and both are very nice sounding cartridges. I have a DL-110 and my tweeters have a rise in the high end, but it doesn't sound excessively bright. I got a Pro-Ject turntable for a customer with the Pearl and it's very nice.

 

[3db]

I think you have the Blue and Red prices reversed. I would definitely go for the Blue or Red.

Cartridges can increase surface noise. Cheaper cartridges often have a nasty HF lift which can emphasize surface noise. However to get noise at all there has to be dirt deep in the grooves in the first place.

When it comes to turntables cartridges are not a place to stint, I can tell you that.

Have you had any experience with the Ortofons? The reason I'm asking this is I'm trying to evaluate the dealers knowledge..if the price difference of $50 more between option A and C doesn't make a big difference, wouldn't I be better off living with the same sound ( which I enjoy alot BTW ) and save my money for option D two years down the road?

 

[3db]

I agree about the cartridge being an item to "go big, or go home". This and the speakers make the most difference in how the system sounds and no other pieces of the system can vary as much. You also might look at the Sumiko Pearl for moving magnet and Denon DL-110 for moving coil. They're both in this price range and both are very nice sounding cartridges. I have a DL-110 and my tweeters have a rise in the high end, but it doesn't sound excessively bright. I got a Pro-Ject turntable for a customer with the Pearl and it's very nice.

Thanks highfigh but I need to stick with MM. My phono stage on the RX-v1800 isn't setup to pick up the lower output of a MC cartridge.

 

[3db]

I've posted this question on two other forums. A few came back with this suggestion:

M97xE is $59.88 including shipping at J&R: http://www.jr.com/shure/pe/SHU_M97XE What do you think of this cartridge?

There's a $6.00 shipping charge to Canada.

 

[3db]

Getting the colours right.. I'm going to go with the Ortofon Red ($100) after having talked to the dealer again. To upgrade to OM20 is $150 more, not the $250 that I mistakenly posted. The dealer said that the "Red" would still track better than the OM20 plus reducing the surface noise pickup of the record itself for $50 less than the OM20 upgrade route.

I asked about the Shure M97 XE and they told me its a good cartridge and tracks very well but it sounds warmer than the Ortofons which is what I don't want. I'm bring table over on Saturday to get fitted and have them align it and adjust the tracking force as well.

 

[TLS Guy]

Getting the colours right.. I'm going to go with the Ortofon Red ($100) after having talked to the dealer again. To upgrade to OM20 is $150 more, not the $250 that I mistakenly posted. The dealer said that the "Red" would still track better than the OM20 plus reducing the surface noise pickup of the record itself for $50 less than the OM20 upgrade route.

I asked about the Shure M97 XE and they told me its a good cartridge and tracks very well but it sounds warmer than the Ortofons which is what I don't want. I'm bring table over on Saturday to get fitted and have them align it and adjust the tracking force as well.

I have a lot of experience with Ortofon over the years.

I find they are a bit like B & W. Their lower end offerings are not very good in my view with poor trackability.

Ortofon are really a moving coil cartridge manufacturer and produce among the very best if not the best of that genre.

That OM range really underwhelms me in fact I would rate them poor.

The best MM cartridges are the 2M series, but you need to buy the bronze at least and really the black. The black is the closest replacement for the Shure V15 xmr. The latter cartridge I think is overall the best phono cartridge ever made regardless of price. The noted audio critic John Gilbert said if the Shure V15 xmr: "If you know a better hole go to it. I don't."

It is a bum rap that the Shures are "warm". They have a good accurate bass response. And it is a good bass response. That makes the cartridges interact with poor pick up arms in unfortunate ways, especially low frequency resonances. They need careful set up, but what cartridge does not?

As far as the Shure M97 XE I will make a firm recommendation that it is by far the best budget cartridge available. I would rate it higher than any Ortofon short of the 2M Black and their upper end moving coils.

The warm bass in just plain garbage. I really hate a tubby bass what ever its source. My Shure cartridges have deep tight drums and reproduce the lowest notes of the pipe organ with authority.

In you price range that Shure cartridge will be a big step up.

Another issue is that you like vinyl and play it a lot. You need a cartridge that will preserve your collection and keep it sounding good. No manufacturer has ever achieved the compliance and trachability of Shure. So you will have the added bonus that a Shure cartridge will preserve your collection better than the competition.

 

[3db]

I have a lot of experience with Ortofon over the years.

I find they are a bit like B & W. Their lower end offerings are not very good in my view with poor trackability.

Ortofon are really a moving coil cartridge manufacturer and produce among the very best if not the best of that genre.

That OM range really underwhelms me in fact I would rate them poor.

The best MM cartridges are the 2M series, but you need to buy the bronze at least and really the black. The black is the closest replacement for the Shure V15 xmr. The latter cartridge I think is overall the best phono cartridge ever made regardless of price. The noted audio critic John Gilbert said if the Shure V15 xmr: "If you know a better hole go to it. I don't."

It is a bum rap that the Shures are "warm". They have a good accurate bass response. And it is a good bass response. That makes the cartridges interact with poor pick up arms in unfortunate ways, especially low frequency resonances. They need careful set up, but what cartridge does not?

As far as the Shure M97 XE I will make a firm recommendation that it is by far the best budget cartridge available. I would rate it higher than any Ortofon short of the 2M Black and their upper end moving coils.

The warm bass in just plain garbage. I really hate a tubby bass what ever its source. My Shure cartridges have deep tight drums and reproduce the lowest notes of the pipe organ with authority.

In you price range that Shure cartridge will be a big step up.

Another issue is that you like vinyl and play it a lot. You need a cartridge that will preserve your collection and keep it sounding good. No manufacturer has ever achieved the compliance and trachability of Shure. So you will have the added bonus that a Shure cartridge will preserve your collection better than the competition.

You talked me into it. I'll spring for the Shure since you've had experience with both cartridges.

My table costs $500.00 Cdn and the arm from what I've noticed is vey good as I had no complaints about tracking with the Ortofon. Looking ahead in the futur, I don't know if its makes sense getting a $1000 cartridge for a $500 deck.

 

[TLS Guy]

You talked me into it. I'll spring for the Shure since you've had experience with both cartridges.

My table costs $500.00 Cdn and the arm from what I've noticed is vey good as I had no complaints about tracking with the Ortofon. Looking ahead in the futur, I don't know if its makes sense getting a $1000 cartridge for a $500 deck.

I bet you will be amazed by the Shure.

The Ortofon Black in the US is around $600 and the bronze under $400.

Actually the cartridge being around half the cost of the rig is about right. If you look at the classic LP era that was about the fund balance then. So the cartridge being 50% of the cost of the rig is actually about right.

 

[3db]

I bet you will be amazed by the Shure.

The Ortofon Black in the US is around $600 and the bronze under $400.

Actually the cartridge being around half the cost of the rig is about right. If you look at the classic LP era that was about the fund balance then. So the cartridge being 50% of the cost of the rig is actually about right.

I went to the store where I purchased my turntable from and I couldn't afford the Shure cartridge. They were listing it for $135. Cdn so I wen with the Ortofon Red. I had them install the cartridge and align it properly and I took my turntable home. I tried out a few albums that I knew were noisy and I did notice a slight reduction in surface noise compared to that of the OM10. It was worth the $50 upgrade over the OM10.

The person at the store commented on how heavy the platter was. I just smiled and told him that was a good thing for speed consistency. I asked him..based om my table, how much should I spend for a cartridge. His comment was about 50% of the value of the table. So for a $600 turntable, I should have a $300 cartridge.

 

[TLS Guy]

I went to the store where I purchased my turntable from and I couldn't afford the Shure cartridge. They were listing it for $135. Cdn so I wen with the Ortofon Red. I had them install the cartridge and align it properly and I took my turntable home. I tried out a few albums that I knew were noisy and I did notice a slight reduction in surface noise compared to that of the OM10. It was worth the $50 upgrade over the OM10.

The person at the store commented on how heavy the platter was. I just smiled and told him that was a good thing for speed consistency. I asked him..based om my table, how much should I spend for a cartridge. His comment was about 50% of the value of the table. So for a $600 turntable, I should have a $300 cartridge.

There is no hard and fast rule, as some cartridges like the Shure are much better than their price would suggest.

You turntable would likely benefit from a pricey cartridge like the 2M Black or a Shure V15 xmr. Everybody seems to be hanging onto those and they hardly ever come up on eBay. I bought two while they were still in production, and had to give a kings ransom for a used one for a third, but it was little used and in perfect shape. I bought up a good supply of styli as soon as I heard they were going out of production because of those fatuous RoHS regs.

I must say I have sympathy with a tea shirt prevalent on the MN Iron Range of late, that says "Kill an environmentalist!"