Outlaw Audio 976 Processor looks to be no longer available: damn shame!

[shadyJ]

If all you need is 7.1, you could also just buy a high-end preowned 7.1 processor or AVR.

I recently sold my $5,500 Denon AVR-5308CI for $1K. Or was it $900?

I bet people can get some preowned 7.1 AVP from Krell, Bryston, ATI, Lexicon AVP for $1K.

But as @Gmoney says...

Those processors wouldn't have the latest HDMI versions. Also, my guess is that the outputs wouldn't be as good in terms of THD+N. And how many of those are using fully balanced outputs?

 

[Danzilla31]

Those processors wouldn't have the latest HDMI versions. Also, my guess is that the outputs wouldn't be as good in terms of THD+N. And how many of those are using fully balanced outputs?

I wonder if one manages to snag a used one if outlaw would still service it

On second thought thats wishful thinking. Damnit I was planning on snagging one of those next year for my bedroom setup siiiggghhh oh well I knew I shouldn't have waited

I'm bummed about this 2 Shady

I was going to go with powered monitors we've chatted about this and relocate all the 590's I've got up in the bedroom. Free up some space

I'm as bummed as you are bro I really wanted to try some powered monitors out.

They've got so affordable and some really good measuring one's as well.

 

[snakeeyes]

Probably hard to market the powered monitor benefit. Maybe Gene could influence the other guys in one of his reviews.

 

[PENG]

It is a sad reality, if Outlaw could make a reasonable profit they wouldn't have discontinue the product.

Let's hope Monolith would come up with a 7 channel version for under 1K. If anyone can, they would likely be the one.

 

[M Code]

The OE source of the 976 needs to step-up up for later technologies and development...
They have the capability to do it but...
Need more brand customers and quantities to support this..
Their OE business for multi-media, wireless, soundbar products are doing fine.....

Just my $0.02...

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Those processors wouldn't have the latest HDMI versions. Also, my guess is that the outputs wouldn't be as good in terms of THD+N. And how many of those are using fully balanced outputs?

What's the THD+N and SINAD on the Outlaw 976?

Fully Balanced? I thought "Fully Balanced" means from Input-to-Output? The older Krell, Bryston, Lexicon aren't fully balanced, but the 976 is fully balanced?

The last "fully balanced" AVP I can remember was my Denon AVP-A1HDCI, which died after 8 years. If it had not died, I would have sold it for $1K.

 

[PENG]

What's the THD+N and SINAD on the Outlaw 976?

Fully Balanced? I thought "Fully Balanced" means from Input-to-Output? The older Krell, Bryston, Lexicon aren't fully balanced, but the 976 is fully balanced?

The last "fully balanced" AVP I can remember was my Denon AVP-A1HDCI, which died after 8 years.

If you mean fully balance = dual differential from input to output you can forget it. No way you can get that for <$1,000. For two channel it may be possible though imo still unlikely, definitely not for all 7 channels.

Especially if Matthew got his info on the key parts from a reliable source. In the review he said this thing has the Burr Brown PCM1794a DAC and OPA1652.

Can you imagine 7 pieces of the PCA1794 and at least 7 pieces of the rather expensive OPA1612?

There were good reasons why you hated Denon AVP listed for $7,500.

So in this case the fully balance probably just mean it is not a fake balance just done to allow for connection to loads with balanced connectors only.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

If you mean fully balance = dual differential from input to output you can forget it. No way you can get that for <$1,000. For two channel it may be possible though imo still unlikely, definitely not for all 7 channels.

Especially if Matthew got his info on the key parts from a reliable source. In the review he said this thing has the Burr Brown PCM1794a DAC and OPA1652.

Can you imagine 14 pieces of the PCA1794 and at least 7 pieces of the rather expensive OPA1612?

There were good reasons why you hated Denon AVP listed for $7,500.

So in this case the fully balance probably just mean it is not a fake balance just done to allow for connection to loads with balanced connectors only.

Yeah, I can see the 976 and other AVPs having "dual differential outputs", but NOT FULLY BALANCED.

Can you think of examples of the Fake Balance?

The Yamaha RX-A3080 AVR has L/R XLR Inputs and Outputs. You think it has fake balance?

 

[PENG]

Yeah, I can see the 976 and other AVPs having "dual differential outputs", but NOT FULLY BALANCED.

Can you think of examples of the Fake Balance?

The Yamaha RX-A3080 AVR has L/R XLR Inputs and Outputs. You think it has fake balance?

A simple example of what I would consider fake can be found here:
XLR vs RCA - The Chord Company

I wouldn't call the Outlaw 976 and the Yamaha's fake, they must be real and do output 2X the voltage of the RCA output, and that's a good indicator they are not "fake", but it is not likely that they are of the differential from input to output type.

Here's a good post that describe two types of "balanced" schemes:
Differential, Single-Ended, Balanced, Unbalanced, and all that jazz... | Audio Science Review (ASR) Forum

 

[Gmoney]

If you mean fully balance = dual differential from input to output you can forget it. No way you can get that for <$1,000. For two channel it may be possible though imo still unlikely, definitely not for all 7 channels.

Especially if Matthew got his info on the key parts from a reliable source. In the review he said this thing has the Burr Brown PCM1794a DAC and OPA1652.

Can you imagine 7 pieces of the PCA1794 and at least 7 pieces of the rather expensive OPA1612?

There were good reasons why you hated Denon AVP listed for $7,500.

So in this case the fully balance probably just mean it is not a fake balance just done to allow for connection to loads with balanced connectors only.

Oh Ouch!! ( There where good reasons why you hated Denon AVP listed for $7.500) Ouch again! @PENG got 7 years out of it plus $900.00 street price.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

A simple example of what I would consider fake can be found here:
XLR vs RCA - The Chord Company

I wouldn't call the Outlaw 976 and the Yamaha's fake, they must be real and do output 2X the voltage of the RCA output, and that's a good indicator they are not "fake", but it is not likely that they are of the differential from input to output type.

Here's a good post that describe two types of "balanced" schemes:
Differential, Single-Ended, Balanced, Unbalanced, and all that jazz... | Audio Science Review (ASR) Forum

So both the Outlaw 976 pre-pro and Yamaha RX-A3080 AVR offer "balanced outputs", but just not "FULLY BALANCED from Input to Output".

It's just the way Shady worded the "Fully Balanced Outputs" on the 976 that made me wonder what brands/components are doing "fake" balanced outputs.

IOW, is there anything really special at all about the 976's balanced outputs, other than the fact that it is balanced like MOST pre-pros?

I would NOT think the "balanced outputs" on the 976 is any better at all than the balanced outputs found on the other pre-owned Bryston, Krell, Lexicon pre-pros.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Oh Ouch!! ( There where good reasons why you hated Denon AVP listed for $7.500) Ouch again! @PENG got 7 years out of it plus $900.00 street price.

Stop it, Mike. It was a Fully Balanced FULL 8 years worth!

But the REAL question is, even though the AVP-A1HDCI was FULLY BALANCED form INPUT to OUTPUT and probably has pretty awesome THD+N and SINAD, did it sound ANY better than the AVRs?

The answer is absolutely no, it didn't sound any better. ATMOS rules!!!!!!!

 

[PENG]

So both the Outlaw 976 pre-pro and Yamaha RX-A3080 AVR offer "balanced outputs", but just not "FULLY BALANCED from Input to Output".

It's just the way Shady worded the "Fully Balanced Outputs" on the 976 that made me wonder what brands/components are doing "fake" balanced outputs.

IOW, is there anything really special at all about the 976's balanced outputs, other than the fact that it is balanced like MOST pre-pros?

I would NOT think the "balanced outputs" on the 976 is any better at all than the balanced outputs found on the other pre-owned Bryston, Krell, Lexicon pre-pros.

To be clear I don't know for sure if the Outlaw's are not fully balanced, meaning from input to output but I am saying for under $1K list price I just don't believe they would have done it.

 

[Gmoney]

Stop it, Mike. It was a Fully Balanced FULL 8 years worth!

But the REAL question is, even though the AVP-A1HDCI was FULLY BALANCED form INPUT to OUTPUT and probably has pretty awesome THD+N and SINAD, did it sound ANY better than the AVRs?

The answer is absolutely no, it didn't sound any better. ATMOS rules!!!!!!!

All I did was Quote @PENG. On many post on AH you posted up how much you didn't like the fact that Denon couldn't or wouldn't repair you AVP. How unhappy you where with Denon. Now am I lying?

 

[Gmoney]

Stop it, Mike. It was a Fully Balanced FULL 8 years worth!

But the REAL question is, even though the AVP-A1HDCI was FULLY BALANCED form INPUT to OUTPUT and probably has pretty awesome THD+N and SINAD, did it sound ANY better than the AVRs?

The answer is absolutely no, it didn't sound any better. ATMOS rules!!!!!!!

DTS-X Rules!! Atmos just soon be 7.1 or 7.15 in your case with all them Subs you have..

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

DTS-X Rules!! Atmos just soon be 7.1 or 7.15 in your case with all them Subs you have..

Well, Atmos and DTS-X are about the same. But the contents for DTS-X are becoming less and less. I can' t remember the last movie that was in DTS-X.

But DTS NeuralX is awesome - I use DTS NeuralX for just about everything, including those fake-Atmos soundtracks.

And FYI, it's a 5.10.4 Atmos/DTSX System!

 

[PENG]

Well, Atmos and DTS-X are about the same. But the contents for DTS-X are becoming less and less. I can' t remember the last movie that was in DTS-X.

But DTS NeuralX is awesome - I use DTS NeuralX for just about everything, including those fake-Atmos soundtracks.

And FYI, it's a 5.10.4 Atmos/DTSX System!

Just bought Jason Bourne, it has DTS-X but no Atmos (may be there is but French, have to check). That's an old movie, is there a list somewhere?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Just bought Jason Bourne, it has DTS-X but no Atmos (may be there is but French, have to check). That's an old movie, is there a list somewhere?

Yeah, DTS has a list on their website. It's a small short list. And most of the DTSX contents kind of suck too.

I think Jurassic World and all the Harry Potter movies have good DTSX soundtracks.

 

[Gmoney]

Lolo

Well, Atmos and DTS-X are about the same. But the contents for DTS-X are becoming less and less. I can' t remember the last movie that was in DTS-X.

But DTS NeuralX is awesome - I use DTS NeuralX for just about everything, including those fake-Atmos soundtracks.

And FYI, it's a 5.10.4 Atmos/DTSX System!

lol, I knew I'd get it out of you! 5.10.4 Just as soon get Denons 13 channel AVP or is it AVR? and be done, Well unless your shooting for a Real HT room 32 channels. But don't you worry you almost there. Still though most of us bottom feeder HT guy's just happy to have a good 5.1 setup and I'm only 1/4 there. Did I mention I found this cool audio guy Thor? Look him up, Rumor has it!

 

[PENG]

Just bought Jason Bourne, it has DTS-X but no Atmos (may be there is but French, have to check). That's an old movie, is there a list somewhere?

Did you find any audible difference in terms of audio between the tracks of the non 4K and 4K discs, I mean those that came with both discs when the same formats (either both Atmos or both DTS:X) are used?