Outlaw 5000 or crown xli800

P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
Thanks for the response. It sounds like I won't get any improvement from increasing wattage output. I do own a sub it's a klipsch rw12d. I am actually pretty happy with the sound I am getting currently. I was just curious if the higher output amps would make any difference.
The first time (>10 years ago) I added an expensive 300/500W 8/4 ohm amp to my AVR I heard a significant difference, seemed more transparent and definitely better bass. As soon as the initial excitement and satisfaction subsided, the brain somehow changed it's mind and I no longer felt the difference significant. In fact I could only tell a difference when I cranked the volume way up to the point it blew the tweeter on my 86dB/1m/W Energy 22 ref Conn during one of the playing around comparison sessions. Note: the AVR blew it when it was so loud that the tweeter might have acted as a fuse for my ears.:D The amp has been back to one of my two channel system since.

Depending on your speakers and other factors, more power may or may not make a difference for you. It is a fact that power not needed and/or used will not, and should not make a difference to sound quality. Of course there are no shortage of people who supposedly heard night and day kind of difference even at very low spl, after adding a 200 watts power amp to their 100 watts rated mid range AVR, it is entirely up to you to believe what you choose to believe.

On the objective side, your speakers are rated:

98dB/2.83V/m, 8 ohm nominal

Let's conservatively assume they are actually 4 ohm nominal, the sensitivity would then become 95 dB/1W/m, let's further de-rate them by another 3 dB, so use 92 dB/W/m for sensitivity.
Let's also ignore room gain by entering the following data to the linked online calculator:

http://myhometheater.homestead.com/splcalculator.html

Speaker sensitivity: 92 dB/W/m
Placement: Away from wall
No. of speakers: 2 (stereo listening)
Distance: 12 ft (you need to enter the actual distance in your case).

The calculator shows that you need only 1.35 WPC to get 85 dB at 12 ft. 85 dB is as loud as what you will experience in movie cinemas that follows THX standards. So, based the assumed distance, even your 80 WPC rated AVR can give you that kind of sound pressure level and still capable of >20 dB peak. If you do listen at this kind of loud level, adding an amp will likely make a difference, but remember doubling the power will only get you 3 dB more of spl. Your AVR does not have mch preouts. If you replace it with one that is rated 100 WPC with 7.2 preouts, you probably should go for a 300 W rated amp to make sure you can actually hear a difference at > reference level.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
It seems many guys (not all) who have owned high-end components for many years are more likely to accept more economical alternatives that accomplish the same goal of great sound. :D
Agree, people came to where you and I stand after spending tens of thousands and years of playing around different gear. It would be unrealistic to convince people who are still in their honeymoon with their first, second or even 3rd beloved amps that typically get progressively more expensive, to feel the same way or came to the same conclusions. If the amp looks good, has better build quality, fewer components jammed in a box, is more powerful, and more expensive, then they must sound better. That's logic, common sense..:D:D
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
Agree, people came to where you and I stand after spending tens of thousands and years of playing around different gear. It would be unrealistic to convince people who are still in their honeymoon with their first, second or even 3rd beloved amps that typically get progressively more expensive, to feel the same way or came to the same conclusions. If the amp looks good, has better build quality, fewer components jammed in a box, is more powerful, and more expensive, then they must sound better. That's logic, common sense..:D:D
Reminds me of the movie "The Professional" where the hitman (Jean Reno) tells the little girl (Natalie Portman) that you start out killing with a Sniper Gun and then after you have mastered everything and become a master hitman, you kill only with a Knife. :D

In this audio hobby, you have to know what you really want first and it changes over time. This could take years and a lot of money. But once you have finally figured it out, you can forego all the fancy bells and whistles and go straight for the "kill". :D

And then you focus on the actual movies and music, not the electronics and speakers anymore.
 
A

Andrein

Senior Audioholic
Reminds me of the movie "The Professional" where the hitman (Jean Reno) tells the little girl (Natalie Portman) that you start out killing with a Sniper Gun and then after you have mastered everything and become a master hitman, you kill only with a Knife. :D

In this audio hobby, you have to know what you really want first and it changes over time. This could take years and a lot of money. But once you have finally figured it out, you can forego all the fancy bells and whistles and go straight for the "kill". :D

And then you focus on the actual movies and music, not the electronics and speakers anymore.
...in ideal world. Though not many real life examples can be seen on this forum))) I mean those who focus on music and movies only...
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
...in ideal world. Though not many real life examples can be seen on this forum))) I mean those who focus on music and movies only...
Maybe we can start a poll, but I know a few people who have owned the same main components for a while and are not looking to improve anything because they are 100% satisfied.

After listening and comparing and owning so many electronics and speakers and subwoofers over so many years, you get the feeling that you have heard them all.

I don't miss the days when I would be constantly trying to get the best sounding systems - buy-sell-repeat.

These days the only thing I'm focused on is the actual entertainment - music, movies, and especially TV shows. :D
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
These days the only thing I'm focused on is the actual entertainment - music, movies, and especially TV shows. :D
I am not quite there yet as I am still keen on seeking out the best recordings, and would pay high price for it. That's the only reason why I spend a lot on DSD 256 files, not because of the claimed DSD advantages (that i don't believe)on sound quality, but the quality of the original source recording/mastering only.
 
everettT

everettT

Audioholic Spartan
Reminds me of the movie "The Professional" where the hitman (Jean Reno) tells the little girl (Natalie Portman) that you start out killing with a Sniper Gun and then after you have mastered everything and become a master hitman, you kill only with a Knife. :D

In this audio hobby, you have to know what you really want first and it changes over time. This could take years and a lot of money. But once you have finally figured it out, you can forego all the fancy bells and whistles and go straight for the "kill". :D

And then you focus on the actual movies and music, not the electronics and speakers anymore.
You and the little girl movies :p

If my gear was insight of anyone, I might reconsider the amps. Watching those blue meters light up was a great conversation piece. One thing I loved about the MACs is they would always deliver the power asked for, that was nice but with a price of the autoformers. Stable into 1ohm but at the rated power of an 8ohm, 4ohm, 16ohm. Slight variance but just a few watts. Had it serviced 3 times over 30 years and each spec report was almost identical.
 
everettT

everettT

Audioholic Spartan
Maybe we can start a poll, but I know a few people who have owned the same main components for a while and are not looking to improve anything because they are 100% satisfied.

After listening and comparing and owning so many electronics and speakers and subwoofers over so many years, you get the feeling that you have heard them all.

I don't miss the days when I would be constantly trying to get the best sounding systems - buy-sell-repeat.

These days the only thing I'm focused on is the actual entertainment - music, movies, and especially TV shows. :D
Some of the best recordings I've heard , but not for everyone

https://www.acousticdisc.com
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
I am not quite there yet as I am still keen on seeking out the best recordings, and would pay high price for it. That's the only reason why I spend a lot on DSD 256 files, not because of the claimed DSD advantages (that i don't believe)on sound quality, but the quality of the original source recording/mastering only.
That's what I meant - focus on looking for recordings, not speakers and amps.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
You and the little girl movies :p

If my gear was insight of anyone, I might reconsider the amps. Watching those blue meters light up was a great conversation piece. One thing I loved about the MACs is they would always deliver the power asked for, that was nice but with a price of the autoformers. Stable into 1ohm but at the rated power of an 8ohm, 4ohm, 16ohm. Slight variance but just a few watts. Had it serviced 3 times over 30 years and each spec report was almost identical.
30 years? How much did it cost each time for service?
 
Alex2507

Alex2507

Audioholic Slumlord
It seems many guys (not all) who have owned high-end components for many years are more likely to accept more economical alternatives that accomplish the same goal of great sound. :D
Google Home Mini FTW. Built in amp. Economical. Good enough SQ for background music. :D
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
Google Home Mini FTW. Built in amp. Economical. Good enough SQ for background music. :D
...And then there are some guys who have been around way too long and have lost their man-card. :eek: :D
 
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everettT

everettT

Audioholic Spartan
30 years? How much did it cost each time for service?
I had one channel go out after 20 years and then brought the other up to spec before selling. The one channel was $800 and the second service was $500. Well worth the age.
 
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