Ouch - my $500 Yamaha smokes my Pioneer Elite SC-05 (?)

[jschlarb]

For the past few years, I've done all my stereo listening in our 2-story family room, with a Yamaha RX-797 (stereo receiver) and a pair of Vienna Acoustics Bachs. I was pretty happy with the sound, but the listening setup is all wrong. There's an 18-foot ceiling, and no way to get a decent setup between the speakers and my listening position.

So tonight, I moved the Bachs downstairs to the home theater room, and listened to some CDs with my SC-05 AVR in "Pure Direct" mode, in a more "reference" listening position (and with 9 foot ceilings). To my surprise, they sounded a lot worse! I'm going to move the RX-797 down tomorrow to do some A/B testing.

Has anyone had a similar experience? This kind of confirms my suspicion that AVRs are big and pretty and full of cool technology, but maybe not so great for music.

 

[Adam]

I haven't experienced that, but I've never tried one of the newer Pioneer's with Class D amps. Some people have noted that Class D, at least the way it's been implemented in some receivers, sounds worse with some lower impedance speakers (and your Bachs are rated at 4 ohms).

I'm curious to get a follow up after you move your Yamaha down to the same room. Perhaps the difference in acoustics is causing them to sound worse to you because you've gotten used to the other room.

Did you run MCACC with the Bachs before you started listening? I get that you're using Pure Direct mode, but that will still set the distances (i.e. delays) and reference level offsets for the speakers. I'm guessing that you aren't running a sub.

 

[jschlarb]

I was wondering whether the SC-05 was meant to drive 4 ohm loads. I didn't run MCACC, that's a good idea. The SC-05 sounds fine with my wall-mounted Ascend speakers. I was just curious to see whether the Bachs could improve on that sound. Will report back soon on the RX797 in the basement...

 

[RichB]

Do find the Yamaha sounds better at all listening levels or only when driven?

- Rich

 

[jschlarb]

Do find the Yamaha sounds better at all listening levels or only when driven?

- Rich

Only when driven. In fact the distortion was very audible with the SC-05 at higher volumes. This post explains it...

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/amps-pre-pros-receivers/47503-pioneer-sc-07-4-ohm-speakers.html#post455460

I hope I didn't damage the SC-05. Anyway, I have enough space in the basement to have a dual setup - Yamaha/Bachs for music, SC-05/Ascend for home theater.

 

[RichB]

Only when driven. In fact the distortion was very audible with the SC-05 at higher volumes. This post explains it...

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/amps-pre-pros-receivers/47503-pioneer-sc-07-4-ohm-speakers.html#post455460

I hope I didn't damage the SC-05. Anyway, I have enough space in the basement to have a dual setup - Yamaha/Bachs for music, SC-05/Ascend for home theater.

That is a great post by TLS Guy.
My friend had an SC-07 driving his B&Ws CM-7's and you could turn it up but it really got flat sounding. The current limiting may be the cause. He replaced it with a BDP-105 directly connected to two Outlaw M2200 mono-blocks and it was a huge improvement.

- Rich

 

[canelli]

I have the SC-05 and it has problems driving more difficult speakers. I really noticed it during movie scenes with large dynamic swings. The distortion drove me crazy. I added a Parasound Halo amplifier to the mix and the problem was solved.

Before I bought the Parasound, a dealer suggested that I use a Crown amplifier. With my audio snobbery I turned my nose up and bought the Parasound. Honestly, Crown I thought?? Later on I moved the Pioneer to another room and bought an XLS2000 and was quite impressed.

 

[jschlarb]

I'd love to get the Parasound Halo A31. I can afford it, just need to convince my wife that it's a sensible way to spend 3k.

BTW the sound was much better with the Yamaha RX-797 in the basement.

 

[fuzz092888]

I'm not surprised you have issues with the amplifier section in the SC05. If it's the model I'm thinking of, there's a big reason why Pio ditched the ICE power modules.

 

[ImcLoud]

the sc05 has preouts, just but a emo amp and bypass the internal amp section of the Pio.... way cheaper than a parasound unit and will do the same thing*

 

[RichB]

If you do need or want to use room correction then the minimalist approach might work for you.

BD-105 Blu-ray disc/Network streamer as a preamp -> Amp (my friend used Outlaw M2200's).
The latest beta firmware contains "preamp" features: Power on volume, Max Volume, and power on input.
The rear HDMI input can be used for a cable box.

You can setup a harmony remote to perform the activities you need.
Power on is not quite as fast though. You need at 20 second delay to get it going.

Any good amp will do.
I am completely satisfied with the Parasound A5 because it does a great job of driving the Salons and disappears, as it should. I have heard the M2200's with my Revels and they are nice amps and you cant beat them for the money.

- Rich

 

[mtrycrafts]

For the past few years, I've done all my stereo listening in our 2-story family room, with a Yamaha RX-797 (stereo receiver) and a pair of Vienna Acoustics Bachs. I was pretty happy with the sound, but the listening setup is all wrong. There's an 18-foot ceiling, and no way to get a decent setup between the speakers and my listening position.

So tonight, I moved the Bachs downstairs to the home theater room, and listened to some CDs with my SC-05 AVR in "Pure Direct" mode, in a more "reference" listening position (and with 9 foot ceilings). To my surprise, they sounded a lot worse! I'm going to move the RX-797 down tomorrow to do some A/B testing.

Has anyone had a similar experience? This kind of confirms my suspicion that AVRs are big and pretty and full of cool technology, but maybe not so great for music.

You move your speakers from a room with 18ft ceiling and who knows what else acoustic vise, been listening and getting used to that room's acoustics, into a room with 9 ft ceiling and who knows what else acoustics wise and wonder your amp may be an issue? Interesting.