Oppo to wind down and cease manufacturing

Irvrobinson

Irvrobinson

Audioholic Spartan
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I have a lot of works on three and even four CD. I know a lot of people that have had multi CD albums of just one work. Operas and Bach's St. Matthew Passion and many others come to mind.
BDs are wonderful as you get a picture and long works on one disc.
I know, Mark, but long classical works, or even recordings of pop music concerts (which often run two hours or more) are rarities in the music world. I'd guess long classical works sell better in Europe, but even there I doubt the total sales come close to justifying the support of a new format. You know as well as I do this is a business question, not a technical one.
 
Irvrobinson

Irvrobinson

Audioholic Spartan
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Now, the highest price on Ebay for a UDP-205 is $5499.
Reminds me of some Porsches advertised for sale in the Porsche Club of America magazine (Panorama). My favorite from last month: a 2013 911 Carrera S Club Coupe. Supposedly limited to 13 cars worldwide (says the ad). 5623 miles. It has a manual transmission, making it only 2 of 13. Asking price is $650,000. IMO, he has a better chance of a pay-off like that if he just bought lottery tickets, but I'm not into the car collection world.
 
P

PhilCohen

Audioholic
Ratings
34
Your perceptions are not supported by facts: SACD is not obscure, it is the defacto state-of-the-art in both stereo and multi-channel audio. There will never come a day when there are no devices to play CD, at least for people living on the planet today, because the media is essentially ever lasting and has not yet been meaningfully superseded. While we may also perceive that streaming is the future that trend is functionally limited in multi-channel, as well as gapless playback. So, don't let your perceptions fuel or help fulfill your grossly premature prophecy.
What I mean is that DVD-Audio & SACD didn't achieve mass-market success. don't get me wrong: I love and collect both formats. The demand (from song publishers) to receive full per song royalties on each layer of multilayer discs caused the major labels to abandon these formats. By "multilayer", i'm refering to SACD's containing SACD Surround, SACD Stereo & CD stereo layers, or DVD-Audio discs containing Hi-rez surround, Hi-Rez stereo and Dolby Digital stereo & surround layers.
 
S

sterling shoote

Audioholic General
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284 5 1
What are you talking about? That Cambridge player will output DSD 5.1 over HDMI or as PCM.

There are no multichannel analog outs, but that does not mean you can not play an SACD.

So any modern receiver or pre/pro with HDMI will play and SACD from that player.

By the way it is totally bogus that DSD is superior to PCM. Almost all firms making SACDS are recording and doing all the editing in PCM now and just converting to DSD at the last step to satisfy audiophools. That includes BIS now who have been one of the greatest proponents of DSD. The reason is that DSD is just awful to work with.

DSD is dying, but nowhere near fast enough. Why there has not been a switch to audio only Blue Ray is beyond me. That is the preferred medium of the Berlin Philharmonic for their multichannel audio only recordings. They sound wonderful.

I think those multichannel audio outs are going to be gone. I think any manufacturer including them now courts legal trouble.
No way to play SACD other than HDMI bud. That means unless you have a pre/pro or AVR that has HDMI input you can not enjoy SACD. That's what makes the OPPO special-analog output. But DSD is not dying and neither is SACD. Now, if I did not have an OPPO, I would need to buy an HDMI AVR as well as a 4k universal player with HDMI output, probably a Sony ES model.
 
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TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Slumlord
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No way to play SACD other than HDMI bud.
What point are you trying to make? Are you saying that playing an SACD with DSD over HDMI or playing an SACD with the player outputting PCM over HDMI is inferior to Multichannel analog? If that is the point you a making then you are in audiophool territory.
 
S

sterling shoote

Audioholic General
Ratings
284 5 1
What point are you trying to make? Are you saying that playing an SACD with DSD over HDMI or playing an SACD with the player outputting PCM over HDMI is inferior to Multichannel analog? If that is the point you a making then you are in audiophool territory.
No, I'm stating facts. This is an OPPO thread. The loss of OPPO means the loss of multi-channel SACD via analog output, since all others output multi-channel SACD only via HDMI. That's the point. The whole point, and nothing but the point. And, the POINT means at this point to enjoy multi-channel SACD, the multi-channel SACD enthusiast will need an AVR or pre/pro with HDMI input. And, please, where the hell did you get the idea I was saying playing SACD via HDMI was inferior?
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

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No, I'm stating facts. This is an OPPO thread. The loss of OPPO means the loss of multi-channel SACD via analog output, since all others output multi-channel SACD only via HDMI. That's the point. The whole point, and nothing but the point. And, the POINT means at this point to enjoy multi-channel SACD, the multi-channel SACD enthusiast will need an AVR or pre/pro with HDMI input. And, please, where the hell did you get the idea I was saying playing SACD via HDMI was inferior?
I did not know what your post meant for certain. I had to have you clarify it.

Oppo where going to have to get rid of those analog outs, or face a costly lawsuit which they would loose.

We are now past the analog sunset and now those analog outs are definitely illegal.

As I have often stated there is a FORCING of HDMI. I don't like it anymore than you do, but it will literally take an act of Congress to change it.

So you have to get a an AVR or pre pro as you say, or keep your legacy equipment working.

I know you know what your previous post meant, but it was not as specific as you think and needed definitive clarification. You could have interpreted your last post to mean that to enjoy multichannel SACD you needed analog outputs. What you stated in your last post is what I thought you meant, but I had to be sure.

This matter is out of Oppo's hands, or anyone else who wants to make a universal disc player.

I have been warning for sometime that pre/pros like your old Sony unit are now useless and worthless pretty much. When I bought my first pre/pro in 2006 it pretty quickly became obsolete and was awkward from the get go. There was no pre/pro with HDMI then. I had to bite the bullet and ditch it after only four years of use.

In all honesty you have to bite the bullet also. All resistance is useless in the face of the edicts of the studio gnomes who legally bride our legislators.
 
P

PhilCohen

Audioholic
Ratings
34
I did not know what your post meant for certain. I had to have you clarify it.

Oppo where going to have to get rid of those analog outs, or face a costly lawsuit which they would loose.

We are now past the analog sunset and now those analog outs are definitely illegal.

As I have often stated there is a FORCING of HDMI. I don't like it anymore than you do, but it will literally take an act of Congress to change it.

So you have to get a an AVR or pre pro as you say, or keep your legacy equipment working.

I know you know what your previous post meant, but it was not as specific as you think and needed definitive clarification. You could have interpreted your last post to mean that to enjoy multichannel SACD you needed analog outputs. What you stated in your last post is what I thought you meant, but I had to be sure.

This matter is out of Oppo's hands, or anyone else who wants to make a universal disc player.

I have been warning for sometime that pre/pros like your old Sony unit are now useless and worthless pretty much. When I bought my first pre/pro in 2006 it pretty quickly became obsolete and was awkward from the get go. There was no pre/pro with HDMI then. I had to bite the bullet and ditch it after only four years of use.

In all honesty you have to bite the bullet also. All resistance is useless in the face of the edicts of the studio gnomes who legally bride our legislators.[/QUOT

The Analog Sunset that you refer to applies only to video outputs; not audio.
 
P

PhilCohen

Audioholic
Ratings
34
I did not know what your post meant for certain. I had to have you clarify it.

Oppo where going to have to get rid of those analog outs, or face a costly lawsuit which they would loose.

We are now past the analog sunset and now those analog outs are definitely illegal.

As I have often stated there is a FORCING of HDMI. I don't like it anymore than you do, but it will literally take an act of Congress to change it.

So you have to get a an AVR or pre pro as you say, or keep your legacy equipment working.

I know you know what your previous post meant, but it was not as specific as you think and needed definitive clarification. You could have interpreted your last post to mean that to enjoy multichannel SACD you needed analog outputs. What you stated in your last post is what I thought you meant, but I had to be sure.

This matter is out of Oppo's hands, or anyone else who wants to make a universal disc player.

I have been warning for sometime that pre/pros like your old Sony unit are now useless and worthless pretty much. When I bought my first pre/pro in 2006 it pretty quickly became obsolete and was awkward from the get go. There was no pre/pro with HDMI then. I had to bite the bullet and ditch it after only four years of use.

In all honesty you have to bite the bullet also. All resistance is useless in the face of the edicts of the studio gnomes who legally bride our legislators.

The Analog Sunset that you refer to applies only to video; Not audio.
 
S

sterling shoote

Audioholic General
Ratings
284 5 1
I did not know what your post meant for certain. I had to have you clarify it.

Oppo where going to have to get rid of those analog outs, or face a costly lawsuit which they would loose.

We are now past the analog sunset and now those analog outs are definitely illegal.

As I have often stated there is a FORCING of HDMI. I don't like it anymore than you do, but it will literally take an act of Congress to change it.

So you have to get a an AVR or pre pro as you say, or keep your legacy equipment working.

I know you know what your previous post meant, but it was not as specific as you think and needed definitive clarification. You could have interpreted your last post to mean that to enjoy multichannel SACD you needed analog outputs. What you stated in your last post is what I thought you meant, but I had to be sure.

This matter is out of Oppo's hands, or anyone else who wants to make a universal disc player.

I have been warning for sometime that pre/pros like your old Sony unit are now useless and worthless pretty much. When I bought my first pre/pro in 2006 it pretty quickly became obsolete and was awkward from the get go. There was no pre/pro with HDMI then. I had to bite the bullet and ditch it after only four years of use.

In all honesty you have to bite the bullet also. All resistance is useless in the face of the edicts of the studio gnomes who legally bride our legislators.
TLS, I am just really happy that back in February I decided to finally get an OPPO, selecting the 205 not only for its multi-channel analog out, which allows me to enjoy multi-channel SACD from my analog preamp, but also for its usb DAC which permits me to listen to the hi-res I have in iTunes. So, while I may need to bite the bullet if my equipment disintegrates, I am at least for now getting all I've wanted from SACD. Now, I think we both know that HDMI was indeed forced upon us to preclude recording of video and/or audio from most any source.
 
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P

PhilCohen

Audioholic
Ratings
34
My UDP-205 arrived today, and works perfectly. I tried every possible type of discs that I've got and all played perfectly. This included both NTSC & PAL DVD-Videos(Both manufactured and home-burned DVD-R),
DVD-audio(both manufactured and home burned),Blu-ray audio, Blu-ray video (60Hz & 50Hz),Video CD (both NTSC & PAL) Compact disc(manufactured and CD-R) and SACD(Manufactured discs only. I'm aware that the last two generations of Oppo players can't play home-burned SACD's). Also tried "Region 2" DVD's(My unit is hardware modified "Region-Free" , with automatic region recognition for DVD's and Region changing via remote control for "Blu-Ray"). My video collection is mostly rock music videos and concerts. While i've encountered (and bought) plenty of British,German and Japanese DVD's encoded to block playback in North America),I have yet to encounter a Blu-ray music video or concert encoded to block North American playback. My one "50 Hz" blu-ray disc, AKA PAL Blu-ray ("Marillion-Live at Cadogan Hall") isn't region coded, though not all "Region A" Blu-ray players can play a 50Hz disc, though luckily all Oppo Blu-ray players can play it.
I was easily able to establish a wireless connection to my modem/router, and I installed the latest firmware update(what new features it brings to the party is unknown, but better to have it than not have it). As for the CD Album/Song title recognition feature (Gracenote),the UDP-205 doesn't supply album cover artwork(like the BDP-105D did),but, on the positive side, it recognizes album titles and song titles when playing SACD's; something that the BDP-105D couldn't do.
Now I'm going to store the UDP-205 and keep it in what I call "Museum Grade Condition", kind of like my duplicate pair of (discontinued) Puma "Faas 300" green sneakers. ("Faas" is a Jamaican pronunciation of "Fast"). Hopefully, circumstances will never require me to use the UDP-205....or the sneakers. I may be somewhat crazy and obessive(as collectors usually are) but the UDP-205 and the sneakers will remain pristine and beautiful.
I can now enjoy all of my digital disc media without worry, and in a few weeks, my repaired BDP-83 will come back from Oppo's repair shop. One more spare player. The BDP-83 can play home-burned SACD's, though I have few remaining.
Oppo made some great products. Too bad that I couldn't afford Oppo's HA-1 headphone amplifier when it was briefly available. It looked very, very cool.
Still, I Love my "Man Cave".
 
S

sterling shoote

Audioholic General
Ratings
284 5 1
My UDP-205 arrived today, and works perfectly. I tried every possible type of discs that I've got and all played perfectly. This included both NTSC & PAL DVD-Videos(Both manufactured and home-burned DVD-R),
DVD-audio(both manufactured and home burned),Blu-ray audio, Blu-ray video (60Hz & 50Hz),Video CD (both NTSC & PAL) Compact disc(manufactured and CD-R) and SACD(Manufactured discs only. I'm aware that the last two generations of Oppo players can't play home-burned SACD's). Also tried "Region 2" DVD's(My unit is hardware modified "Region-Free" , with automatic region recognition for DVD's and Region changing via remote control for "Blu-Ray"). My video collection is mostly rock music videos and concerts. While i've encountered (and bought) plenty of British,German and Japanese DVD's encoded to block playback in North America),I have yet to encounter a Blu-ray music video or concert encoded to block North American playback. My one "50 Hz" blu-ray disc, AKA PAL Blu-ray ("Marillion-Live at Cadogan Hall") isn't region coded, though not all "Region A" Blu-ray players can play a 50Hz disc, though luckily all Oppo Blu-ray players can play it.
I was easily able to establish a wireless connection to my modem/router, and I installed the latest firmware update(what new features it brings to the party is unknown, but better to have it than not have it). As for the CD Album/Song title recognition feature (Gracenote),the UDP-205 doesn't supply album cover artwork(like the BDP-105D did),but, on the positive side, it recognizes album titles and song titles when playing SACD's; something that the BDP-105D couldn't do.
Now I'm going to store the UDP-205 and keep it in what I call "Museum Grade Condition", kind of like my duplicate pair of (discontinued) Puma "Faas 300" green sneakers. ("Faas" is a Jamaican pronunciation of "Fast"). Hopefully, circumstances will never require me to use the UDP-205....or the sneakers. I may be somewhat crazy and obessive(as collectors usually are) but the UDP-205 and the sneakers will remain pristine and beautiful.
I can now enjoy all of my digital disc media without worry, and in a few weeks, my repaired BDP-83 will come back from Oppo's repair shop. One more spare player. The BDP-83 can play home-burned SACD's, though I have few remaining.
Oppo made some great products. Too bad that I couldn't afford Oppo's HA-1 headphone amplifier when it was briefly available. It looked very, very cool.
Still, I Love my "Man Cave".
Ya might want to plug it in and use it occasionally. Remember, today's electronics have solder which grows whiskers over time, so your unit will deteriorate whether you use it or not.
 
P

PhilCohen

Audioholic
Ratings
34
Ya might want to plug it in and use it occasionally. Remember, today's electronics have solder which grows whiskers over time, so your unit will deteriorate whether you use it or not.
You may be right. In the pre-Blu-ray days, I owned TWO Denon DVD-3930ci units. The unit that was used every day and the spare unit(used for only 40 hours ever) died at the exact same time....both totally failed and couldn't play anything.
 
P

panzeroceania

Junior Audioholic
Ratings
1
No, I'm stating facts. This is an OPPO thread. The loss of OPPO means the loss of multi-channel SACD via analog output, since all others output multi-channel SACD only via HDMI. That's the point. The whole point, and nothing but the point. And, the POINT means at this point to enjoy multi-channel SACD, the multi-channel SACD enthusiast will need an AVR or pre/pro with HDMI input. And, please, where the hell did you get the idea I was saying playing SACD via HDMI was inferior?
I have a dislike of HDMI as itsiobsoleted itself several times over now. That said I prefer discreet units anyways, that way if I replace a unit imI just replacing that one function rather than having to find something that replaces every function of a multifunction unit.
 
S

sterling shoote

Audioholic General
Ratings
284 5 1
I have a dislike of HDMI as itsiobsoleted itself several times over now. That said I prefer discreet units anyways, that way if I replace a unit imI just replacing that one function rather than having to find something that replaces every function of a multifunction unit.
For me, the only benefit I realize from HDMI is it cuts down on snakes of analog audio and video wiring. One wire from universal player to TV, and one to AVR or pre/pro. Wam Bam Thank You Ma'am! But, what HDMI has always been about is the standard does not permit it to be used for any recording. There are no consumer CD recorders, DVD recorders, or other devices which have an HDMI input. Now, with fewer and fewer components with analog output, even with recording devices which have analog audio or video inputs, there is no means to record. To some degree I can override this dilemma using my Sony PCM-7010 DAT Recorders. I just convert usb to IEC 958. But, I think home recording to physical media is coming to an end. If SACD had replaced CD it would already be difficult to record.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Slumlord
Ratings
7,728 16 25
For me, the only benefit I realize from HDMI is it cuts down on snakes of analog audio and video wiring. One wire from universal player to TV, and one to AVR or pre/pro. Wam Bam Thank You Ma'am! But, what HDMI has always been about is the standard does not permit it to be used for any recording. There are no consumer CD recorders, DVD recorders, or other devices which have an HDMI input. Now, with fewer and fewer components with analog output, even with recording devices which have analog audio or video inputs, there is no means to record. To some degree I can override this dilemma using my Sony PCM-7010 DAT Recorders. I just convert usb to IEC 958. But, I think home recording to physical media is coming to an end. If SACD had replaced CD it would already be difficult to record.
That is why I have a DAW. You can record from any source except HDMI. You can record any stream, directly off the Net, plus anything analog, SPDIF or ADAT. I record off the NET live streamed concerts all the time. It is easier than the old reel to reel or cassette. Just a few clicks and you are off to the races. I have a huge digital library of good programming I have archived. Any of these can then be mastered to CD, which I do and give to friends now and again. If a good concert comes up, then I can record it just like the old days. If it is not convenient to listen when broadcast, then I can record it and listen to it later. I do that all the time. There has never been a time I could not grab a radio broadcast or stream once they became available.

I also have a program now that will record an AV stream off the air. I don't use it a lot, as when you add video you need a lot more hard drive space.

In case you have not heard me saw it before: - I love my DAW, like I loved the one before. I have 16 years experience of doing this now.
 

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