Oppo OPDV970HD HDMI Audio Issue Correction

[Audioholics]

<A href="http://www.audioholics.com/productreviews/avhardware/OppoDV-970HDDVDp3.php#HDMI"><IMG style="WIDTH: 125px; HEIGHT: 94px" alt=[OppoHDMI] hspace=10 src="http://www.audioholics.com/news/thumbs/OppoHDMI_th.jpg" align=left border=0></A>We spoke with Oppo about the HDMI issue and found that the factory default setting of the HDMI audio causes a much different sound stage than that of the S/PDIF output. This is because the default HDMI Audio source is set to “Multi-channel”, which runs all audio through the Oppo's internal DSP. This means that the down-mix, speaker size, subwoofer setting, channel trim, channel delay and volume control settings are all applied to this HDMI audio. When playing a redbook CD, the output is no longer the original as recorded in the CD tracks. The reason that Oppo choose this default setting is because, as a consumer-grade product, they felt most of the users would be connecting the HDMI output directly to a display with speakers. Read on for more...

[Read the Revised Editor's Note on HDMI]

 

[krabapple]

As of this firmware, when HDMI Audio is set to "SPDIF", there is no audio output over HDMI for SACD. In a future firmware release Oppo will automatically switch to Multi-Channel when an SACD is played.

So, if I understand this correctly, this model, even with the future firmware upgrade to allow S/PDIF output of SACD, will not bypass the Oppo DSP, to let an AVR do all DSP? What the hell?! Every uni-player with an ilink output can do it, why can't the Oppo do it with HDMI? Please tell me I'm misreading this.

Btw, has the Oppo HDMI output been tested with DVD-A?

 

[KenLand]

Thanks for the update Clint!

When you say that SACD over HDMI reverts to MC, does that mean all the soundstage compressing features come with it?

That is, is it now possible to get SACD playback over HDMI that matches the quality of SACD over the analog outs?

Thanks,
Ken

 

[Audioholics]

SACD over HDMI will run through the DSP - this doesn't necessarily mean that multi-channel SACD will sound better or worse than its analogue counterpart as a result. Our results were from 2-channel and we needed headphones to easily hear the distinction. You'll have to experiment. A $149 player that does SACD over HDMI is unheard of to begin with, so it's hard to complain either way.

 

[Geoh]

SACD over HDMI will run through the DSP - this doesn't necessarily mean that multi-channel SACD will sound better or worse than its analogue counterpart as a result. Our results were from 2-channel and we needed headphones to easily hear the distinction. You'll have to experiment. A $149 player that does SACD over HDMI is unheard of to begin with, so it's hard to complain either way.

Is there another DVD player that does SACD over HDMI, at any price?

geoh

 

[corey]

HDMI is a video DRM scheme for Hi-Def video. I just don't get why anyone would want to send audio to their video display.

 

[Audioholics]

HDMI is a video DRM scheme for Hi-Def video. I just don't get why anyone would want to send audio to their video display.

??? HDMI is buggy, but it handles a lot more than video. Put an HDMI-capable receiver in the middle and you've just eliminated a lot of cables and headaches.

In most applications involving a more sophisticated setup, the HDMI running from the receiver to the display will only carry video.

 

[jcPanny]

Oppo customer service

It is great to see that Oppo is so responsive with feedback and firmware upgrades. On a $150 product none the less!

One of the Oppo players is on my short list for upgrades when I get a new LCD HDTV.

 

[krabapple]

SACD over HDMI will run through the DSP - this doesn't necessarily mean that multi-channel SACD will sound better or worse than its analogue counterpart as a result. Our results were from 2-channel and we needed headphones to easily hear the distinction. You'll have to experiment. A $149 player that does SACD over HDMI is unheard of to begin with, so it's hard to complain either way.

Well, what DSP is it applying? It sounds like it will be running 2-channel SACD through a multichannel DSP no matter what, for example. The whole point of keeping something wholly in the digital domain until the final D/A conversion is to either maintain bit-integrity or streamline a processing chain, yes? If there's no particular reason it *should* alter the bits or add processing, I think it's entirely OK to complain when it does (esp when my AVR does it as well or better -- meaning I'd have to set up Oppo SACD input differently from all others -- *defeating the purpose* of a universal digital link). It shouldn't cost *more* to do this either -- when asking the player to do *less* to the signal!

Oppo, keep your default 'Multichannel' DSP for SACD via S/PDIF, but allow the 'Raw' output option too, for pete's sake! (Are we sure this isn't really some sort of DRM issue?)

And again too, what's the story with DVD-A?

 

[Geoh]

Well, what DSP is it applying? It sounds like it will be running 2-channel SACD through a multichannel DSP no matter what, for example. The whole point of keeping something wholly in the digital domain until the final D/A conversion is to either maintain bit-integrity or streamline a processing chain, yes? If there's no particular reason it *should* alter the bits or add processing, I think it's entirely OK to complain when it does (esp when my AVR does it as well or better -- meaning I'd have to set up Oppo SACD input differently from all others -- *defeating the purpose* of a universal digital link). It shouldn't cost *more* to do this either -- when asking the player to do *less* to the signal!

Oppo, keep your default 'Multichannel' DSP for SACD via S/PDIF, but allow the 'Raw' output option too, for pete's sake! (Are we sure this isn't really some sort of DRM issue?)

And again too, what's the story with DVD-A?

SACD has to be processed, converted to PCM, within the Oppo 970 to be output via HDMI. You must set HDMI audio to Multichannel to accomplish this. For everything else, DVD-A, DD, DTS, etc... the HDMI output should be set to SPDIF or bitstream. This is fairly easy to accomplish within the 970 menus and you could even setup a Macro to control this if your remote allows. Or........
Buy two 970s (only $300 investment) set one up for SACD, the other for everything else Or
Wait for Oppo to fix this "minor" situation shortly.

geoh

 

[Jay_WJ]

SACD has to be processed, converted to PCM, within the Oppo 970 to be output via HDMI. You must set HDMI audio to Multichannel to accomplish this. For everything else, DVD-A, DD, DTS, etc... the HDMI output should be set to SPDIF or bitstream. This is fairly easy to accomplish within the 970 menus and you could even setup a Macro to control this if your remote allows. Or........
Buy two 970s (only $300 investment) set one up for SACD, the other for everything else Or
Wait for Oppo to fix this "minor" situation shortly.

geoh

I don't think raw DVD-A signals can be sent through SPDIF. Am I right?

Then, the question is, Do the multi-ch PCM signlas of DVD-A go through the Oppo's DSP or do they go directly to HDMI? I'm not sure but suspect that it is the former case. I heard that bass managment and time alignment are applied to multi-ch signals from SACD, DVD-A, DD, and DTS when HDMI Audio is set to 'Multichannel.'

 

[krabapple]

I don't think raw DVD-A signals can be sent through SPDIF. Am I right?

Then, the question is, Do the multi-ch PCM signlas of DVD-A go through the Oppo's DSP or do they go directly to HDMI? I'm not sure but suspect that it is the former case. I heard that bass managment and time alignment are applied to multi-ch signals from SACD, DVD-A, DD, and DTS when HDMI Audio is set to 'Multichannel.'

yes, they do, but I interpreted his post as meaning you can output all but SACD in their native form (bitstream/PCM) when the HDMI is set to 'raw'.

 

[krabapple]

FWIW I ordered one of these today direct from Oppo, I'll compare its HDMI audio performance to the ilink setup I have now with the Yamaha S2500 to the Pioneer 74txvi, and run it through some paces.

Interestingly the Pioneer knoweldgebase has this to say about SACD via HDMI to the 74txvi

VSX72TXV VSX74TXVI WHAT AUDIO FORMATS WILL PASS THROUGH THE HDMI CONNECTION?
WHAT AUDIO FORMATS WILL PASS THROUGH THE HDMI CONNECTION? WILL IT PASS SACD OR DVD-AUDIO?

THE HDMI, VERSION 1.1, WILL PASS ALL AUDIO FORMAT WITH THE EXCEPTION OF SACD. IT CAN NOT PASS THE SACD SIGNAL.

THE SACD CURRENTLY ONLY PASSES THROUGH THE I-LINK CONNECTION ON THE VSX74TXVI.

Which is curious because the Oppo site says that HDMI 1.1. is sufficient in the downstream device for it to receive SACD via HDMA

Q: Why is there no audio output from the coaxial or optical digital audio port when I play DVD-Audio or SACD discs?
A: ....To enjoy high resolution digital audio from DVD-Audio or SACD discs, please use the 5.1-channel analogue audio output. If your A/V receiver supports HDMI 1.1 (or above) digital audio, you may also use the HDMI port, which has the required copyright protection mechanism (HDCP).

 

[The Hun]

HDMI 1.2 will pass DSD, currently the Pioneer TX 84 receiver has that capability[receiving]
1.1 can receive up to 8ch uncompressed PCM[Oppo sends DSD as such after conversion]

 

[zoran]

HDMI 1.2 will pass DSD, currently the Pioneer TX 84 receiver has that capability[receiving]
1.1 can receive up to 8ch uncompressed PCM[Oppo sends DSD as such after conversion]

I think, all currrent Elite recievers from 81-84 can do that! as 80TXI does not pass multi channel?

 

[The Hun]

I think, all currrent Elite recievers from 81-84 can do that! as 80TXI does not pass multi channel?

Yes that's correct I only used the 84 one because that's the successor of the 74 model

 

[vlad335]

Ok Guys... You got my head spinning with all this jargon.

My current DVD player is a Samsung HD841. Audio wise, I am using this for regular DVD's via toslink and SACD/DVD-A via 6 analog cables. I am seriously considering an upgrade to the 970 as I have read reviews of the samsung that says the audio quality is not up to snuff plus I want to upconvert the video.

On the Oppo would there be a problem with running my audio the same way and just using the HDMI for video to a Sony E50A10? Would the 970 have to be set up a certain way? My receiver doesn't have an HDMI input or a DVI for that matter and I am apprehensive about having to take a disc out and going into setup menus when switching between DVD and SACD/DVD-A's.

Am I reading too much into this?

 

[krabapple]

HDMI 1.2 will pass DSD, currently the Pioneer TX 84 receiver has that capability[receiving]
1.1 can receive up to 8ch uncompressed PCM[Oppo sends DSD as such after conversion]

Thanks for clarifying. That accords with what I saw this weekend when I gave the Oppo a tryout. I upgraded it to the most current firmware (MVer: 05.00.01.07 Batch: 3A-0828, available at the Oppo website ) and connected it to a Pioneer 74TXVi via HDMI, then tested it with a few SACDs and DVD-A, and Dualdiscs. The 74txvi is HDMI 1.1.-compliant (whereas the newer 8X series can accept 1.2). Audio settings for HDMI output were as per Audioholics recommendations, e.g. "Raw" for everything but SACD.

With one exception, all bass management and time alignment and level settings in the Oppo were turned to their 'off' or 'neutral' values -- e..g, all speakers large, distances at 0 ft, channel trim/boost at 0, downmix OFF. The exception was that I did leave the subwoofer on in case there was LFE content (I haven't yet tested to see if setting it to 'off' reroutes LFE content to the mains).

I found that my setup passed 2-channel SACD with no problem (converting it first to 88.2 PCM, according to the display on my AVR). I initially had a problem with multichannel, but realized (after consulting the manual) that the player HDMI output needed to be set to its highest bandwidth (e,.g., 720p or 1080i) to ensure passage of such data loads. So changing the default from 480p to 720p (which is the native rez of my projector anyway) allowed the setup to pass multichannel SACD with no problem (again converting to PCM first). I could not do a direct blind comparison , and didn't even have time to compare A/B 'sighted', but the audio sounded quite good to me. Then again, assuming a competent conversion process, I would not expect to hear a difference between 88.1 khz sampling and native DSD. As best I could tell, the AVR was able to apply all its own bass management, delay, and room correction to stereo and multichannel sources.


Ditto the results for DVD-A and Dualdiscs. The Oppo had no problem playing the problematic David Bowie 'Stage' DVD-A or any of the Bjork DualDiscs, that my Yamaha had fumbled on prior to getting its own firmware update.

I must say that overall this is one cool little DVD player. The user menus alone allow for an exceptional array of adjustments, and the inclusion of an Audioholics-authored 'advanced user's manual' was a treat (although it's a little out of date...my Oppo didn't have quite the same screen size settings as the ones mentioned). My only, very minor , complaint would be that there appears to be no in-depth data display option (e.g., sampling rate/bitdepth of DVD-A). At its incredible price point I definitely plan to keep it as a second universal DVD-player, and as a backup for my other universal player.

IN the future I'm going to futz with the subwoofer output options, and tyr to set up some decent A/B comparison. And, oh yeah, check out its video performance.

 

[McED]

I totally agree jcPanny! OPPO seems like an awesome company and very quick to respond to questions. I noticed you're interested in an LCD TV. Have you checked out OPPO's new LCD TV? It even has a DVD player attached!

 

[gooders]

I thought everyone would be interested in what Oppo had to say about their rumoured new version:

"We are working on a new DVD product called the DV-981HD. It will be
Faroudja based, support HDMI and SACD audio, and upconvert to 1080p. We
hope to release it later this month with a MSRP around the same price of
the OPDV971H, if not a little higher."

Got this in my inbox this morning, so looks like the best is just about to get better.