Onyx x-ls vs. x-cs

[Pianoman84d]

Umm, for the record, the review we are talking about did rate them a "goodsound great buy." Of course if you spend more money, you get better performance (assuming you buy ID as I concur that you can't touch their performance without spending at least double at a bm store).

 

[silversurfer]

billnchristy and pianoman,
Do either of you have experience with the Axiom M3 or the Paradigm Atom?

 

[billy p]

The review did in fact praise them for what they are worth and more! My problem is when some forum members push a product like the rest of us are missing something. All these companies like av123, ascend and axiom make great speakers for different budgets. The bottem line is speakers are very subjective and sound different to all. So if I don't like the av123 xls don't tell me there is something wrong with my hearing or my components aren't good enough.

 

[billnchristy]

Dude you can like anything you want...it really is your choice...but when people ask "I have 300 bucks and I want some speakers" I will 100% reccommend the X series...I love them to death.

I wont tell you what you own is crap, I really dislike those that do so and I also have limited experience with home audio though I did install car stereo professionally and as a hobby for about 5 years and have heard some really nice stuff and had about a 5k system in my own car.

That being said I have owned:

Infinity ref 2000.4
Infinity CC-1
Infinity Beta 250 center
Mitsubishi M-Sub-10
Crappy Sony Bookshelfs
X-LS
X-CS
X-Sub
Rocket 760
Rocket RSC200

I have listened to:

Martin Logan Clarity
Vienna Acoustics Bach
Quad 21L
various store brands including Polk, Infinity, Boston Acoustics etc...

 

[Seth=L]

Who are you to say Sony has crappy speakers?

 

[silversurfer]

I think billy p was directing that at Danny.

Anyways, billnchristy, I appreciate the fact that you love the X-LS, but that brings me back to the question "compared to what?". Whatelse have you heard and compared to the X-LS?

I also appreciate this statement, it seems very non-biased:

They do what they do great. Are they $1000 bookshelfs for 200? No. But I would bet that compared to a store speaker you are looking more at $400 or so. Of course, vs. other internet direct brands I think they perform on the 200ish range level.

I also tend to believe in the internet direct business type models, but I suspect B&m dealers/brands will take exception to that comment.

 

[Tex-amp]

A lobbing error is really an out of phase cancellation that occurs off axis. With the X-CS or any other side lay MTM used as a center channel there is this effect. If you move far enough off axis then one woofer is delayed in time (one further back from the other) and becomes out of phase with the other one.

The further the woofers are apart the worse this gets. The X-CS allows the woofers to mount over the face plate of the tweeter moving the acoustic centers as close in as possible to minimize this effect.

With the X-CS you are good to about 20 degrees off axis. After that you will start to see a slight dip in response in the 900Hz range.

I am not sure what to think of the review you guys posted a link to. It is a bit discouraging to spend so much time designing a very high quality speaker only to have it reviewed using a cheap home theater receiver and DVD player.

Most of his imaging observations are completely related to his electronics and positioning. Silver interconnects with that gear sounds scary to me. No wonder he had issues with the highs. Trust me there are no issues with the highs at high volumes or any loose of control.

I heard a pair of X-LS's this past week end at Gary Dodd's house (Dodd Audio). He played the hell out of them with 150 watt tube mono-blocks and played them so hard that the curtains 2 feet behind them were dancing hard from the air blowing from the ports. The highs were smooth as glass and held up with ease. There was zero congestion or compression. In front of the tube amps was one of the best pre-amps ever made and a modified DAC-60 DA converter being feed info from a CEC transport. It was top notch gear. It is the kind or gear that should be used to make do a review. Regardless of the price point of any item being reviewed, you should never bottle neck it with entry level crap. This will not allow you to know the true capabilities but more of the limitations of the upstream components.

On the contrary the similarly priced Paradigm or Axiom speakers aren't even close. I guarantee you that the X-LS will beat the paints off of them. They can even be taken a step or two further with a few minor tweaks. See thread on inexpensive upgrades here: http://www.av123forum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=15371

Hey, don't take my word for it. Try them out. You can return them if you don't like them.

Danny is the designer of the x-ls for those that don't know. The reviewer's B&K AVR307 receiver and Denon DVD-2900 universal player have a combined MSRP of around $5K. I don't think many buyers of $240 speakers are going to have a $5K front end.

 

[xboxweasel]

I miss buying speakers. But I currently sit at 28 (inc subs) and need to stop.

 

[Pianoman84d]

I think billy p was directing that at Danny.

Anyways, billnchristy, I appreciate the fact that you love the X-LS, but that brings me back to the question "compared to what?". Whatelse have you heard and compared to the X-LS?

I also appreciate this statement, it seems very non-biased:



I also tend to believe in the internet direct business type models, but I suspect B&m dealers/brands will take exception to that comment.

I agree that b&m dealers/brands will take exceptions to that statement but i think a lot of people feel that way. Are we trying to say that you have to feel that way, of course not.

 

[Pianoman84d]

billnchristy and pianoman,
Do either of you have experience with the Axiom M3 or the Paradigm Atom?

I don't, but that was my point. They sound good to me; I think they offer good value and there is not a single perfect speaker for anyone at any price point. I think they are an incredible improvement over speakers I have heard (but my experience is limited). All I'm saying is that they work for me and I think they are worth a listen.

 

[Pianoman84d]

The review did in fact praise them for what they are worth and more! My problem is when some forum members push a product like the rest of us are missing something. All these companies like av123, ascend and axiom make great speakers for different budgets. The bottem line is speakers are very subjective and sound different to all. So if I don't like the av123 xls don't tell me there is something wrong with my hearing or my components aren't good enough.

Hi Billy,
I agree with you that av123, axiom, ascend all make great speakers. And I agree 100% that what you get has a lot to do with budget.. i think the x-ls are the cheapest of those manufacturers products. Are they going to compare to the Ascend 170 that cost something like $100 more (not sure of exact difference)? Well, maybe they sound excellent for someone who can't spring the extra cash. DO they sound different? I would fathom they do. Some people may even prefer the x-LS for various reasons (looks, whatever). I tend to think that if someone is looking at one of those brands they are looking at good products and should be happy with what they decide on. I don't feel the need to say that someone ought to get x-ls instead of all those just because i have them. If someone says what speakers can I get for $200 bucks, I think the answer really is look at the x-ls, the axiom m2 (if you have a sub) and i can't think of any others off the top of my head. But thats what I think, if someone else wants to say another speaker, thats what free expression is all about

 

[billy p]

Ah

Danny is the designer of the x-ls for those that don't know. The reviewer's B&K AVR307 receiver and Denon DVD-2900 universal player have a combined MSRP of around $5K. I don't think many buyers of $240 speakers are going to have a $5K front end.

we all know Danny Ritchie! We all read these forums and he makes no bones about who he is. The reveiwer system in which he is speaking of with limited capabilty and doing his speakers a disservice makes him look foolish(IMO) "Cheap home theater receiver and dvd player" . I know he feels strongly about his products, but discrediting other pro's dosen't help his cause, selling his product to me.

 

[Pianoman84d]

we all know Danny Ritchie! We all read these forums and he makes no bones about who he is. The reveiwer system in which he is speaking of with limited capabilty and doing his speakers a disservice makes him look foolish(IMO) "Cheap home theater receiver and dvd player" . I know he feels strongly about his products, but discrediting other pro's dosen't help his cause, selling his product to me.

I think Danny was fooled by the confusion over what this review was. Although, hopefully he will clarify that b/c it is not good to trash reviewers equipment and be wrong about it

 

[silversurfer]

He got the silver interconnects right.

 

[billnchristy]

What have I compared the X-LS to? Well, direct comparison nothing really, but of the speakers I have heard I prefer my X-LS to even more expensive speakers.

Of all the ones I have auditioned I think I liked the Vienna Acoustics best, but my 760s sound better IMO. I think the Viennas were toe'd in too much because the image was dead centre and didnt extend from that at all.

Maybe that will give you a little insight into the type of sound I like...

 

[silversurfer]

The only Vienna Acoustics I have heard are the Haydyn's. I did not like them much.

Did you compare the 760's directly with the VA's?

 

[Tex-amp]

we all know Danny Ritchie! We all read these forums and he makes no bones about who he is. The reveiwer system in which he is speaking of with limited capabilty and doing his speakers a disservice makes him look foolish(IMO) "Cheap home theater receiver and dvd player" . I know he feels strongly about his products, but discrediting other pro's dosen't help his cause, selling his product to me.

Yes, the regulars know who his is. But, there are many casual and even one time readers researching speakers who have no idea he is promoting his own product. Most forums ask audio businessmen disclose their affilation in either their screen name or signature line. Danny choses not to.

 

[billnchristy]

No I don't have the kind of money to throw around to buy multiple sets so it was different rooms, different conditions kind of thing.

I like the fact that the 760s are pretty much true full range speakers and dont particularly need a sub for music, there arent many that do not have powered woofers that can say that and truly mean it.

I do have a good memory though

 

[Seth=L]

What about billnchristy, his title on AV123 is: AV123 Payroll Contributor

What exactly does that make him, not entirely sure I know what a Payroll Contributor is, an accountant?

 

[Pianoman84d]

What about billnchristy, his title on AV123 is: AV123 Payroll Contributor

What exactly does that make him, not entirely sure I know what a Payroll Contributor is, an accountant?

Its a joke. He contributes to the payroll because he buys stuff. He's just a normal funny guy who happens to be slightly nuts

*edit: If you were joking Seth, I apologize. Couldn't tell without the smilies.