Onyx x-ls vs. x-cs

[Seth=L]

I always sit on axis when doing serious listening. In my living room there are two chairs and mine sits in the sweet spot.

 

[Seth=L]

Thanks for the review silversurfer.

It seems these speakers are comparible to Paradigm Atoms and Axiom M3s, I might just get the center and then later consider getting more x-cs. It sounds like the tweeters are kinda weak, and comparing them to Paradigm's lowest model doesn't impress me either.

 

[silversurfer]

I tend to agree with you Seth.

I have been auditioning speakers for the past few months for a system that I will assemble after the holidays, and the X-LS has been on the list to listen to. For the internet direct speakers, before I order for a listen or try to seek out an owner for a listen, I am looking for consistency in reviews from owners, non-owners, and professional reviews. Not necessarily exact same impressions, but at least some consistency. The only consistency I can find with the X-LS is with the cabinetry. Because of this, they are falling down the list of speakers to audition. When a professional review says to make sure and listen to the Atom if considering the X-LS, that says something to me and it is not a positive review statement. The Atom was not on my list for audition, although I have heard it before.

 

[Seth=L]

The Atoms aren't really great speakers for active listening, or listening sessions. They serve well as passive listening, like in an office.

 

[sbader2]

I tend to agree with you Seth.

I have been auditioning speakers for the past few months for a system that I will assemble after the holidays, and the X-LS has been on the list to listen to. For the internet direct speakers, before I order for a listen or try to seek out an owner for a listen, I am looking for consistency in reviews from owners, non-owners, and professional reviews. Not necessarily exact same impressions, but at least some consistency. The only consistency I can find with the X-LS is with the cabinetry.

I picked up my 3 X-CS speakers for my fronts and they are great. I have no idea what lobing is, so i dont really know what to listen for. All I can say is there is no comparison between these and my old Klipsch speakers, especially for music. Since I'm not very knowledgeable and I don't have a long list of speakers that I've listened to I can't really describe the sound or compare them to other speakers (except for the old Klipsch ones). The one thing I do know is I have finally realized what audio imaging is and in my opinion these speakers do it well. Also, yes they do look great and they are gigantic.

All I can say is that they are worth a try, if possible.

 

[silversurfer]

That's just it. While I appreciate your thoughts, without some kind of comparison to other speakers you have heard, I am sure you understand that it makes it hard to qualify.

 

[sbader2]

That's just it. While I appreciate your thoughts, without some kind of comparison to other speakers you have heard, I am sure you understand that it makes it hard to qualify.

Look into the forum at AV123's website http://www.av123forum.com

Somebody might be able to help you out there

 

[silversurfer]

Look into the forum at AV123's website http://www.av123forum.com

Somebody might be able to help you out there

I have read that site a lot as well, but even then, there are not a lot of owners that have had much experience with other speakers(or more expensive speakers). There is definitely a lot of consistency among owners(there are some issues about warm vs neutral), but I am looking for consistency between owners, non-owners, and professional reviewers.

 

[j_garcia]

The Atoms aren't really great speakers for active listening, or listening sessions. They serve well as passive listening, like in an office.

I agree 100%. I have owned 2 pairs, as well as Titans, Minis and Monitor 5s. The Atoms don't do it for me. Good yes, but great no.

 

[billnchristy]

I do not see how you could do better for the money personally. You certainly cannot spend that at a brick and mortar store and get the same performance.

X series speakers are very easy to listen to, you can play them at moderate volumes for 8hrs on end and not get any fatigue. They are excellent for movies and music alike.

If you are used to more expensive speakers you will find them sort of laid back and not very revealing.

If you are used to Best buy speakers you will find them godly.

No lobing from X-CS off axis either BTW.

 

[silversurfer]

If you are used to more expensive speakers you will find them sort of laid back and not very revealing.

If you are used to Best buy speakers you will find them godly.
.

I assume you are an owner?

There are some owners that say they are revealing. I have read some owners post that they are laid back as well.

Again though, no direct comparison to anything.

When you have people saying they are comparable to speakers worth much more, a professional reviewer saying differently, and then different owner opinions, it makes it very difficult to judge.

Which Best Buy speakers are you referring to?

 

[Danny Richie]

A lobbing error is really an out of phase cancellation that occurs off axis. With the X-CS or any other side lay MTM used as a center channel there is this effect. If you move far enough off axis then one woofer is delayed in time (one further back from the other) and becomes out of phase with the other one.

The further the woofers are apart the worse this gets. The X-CS allows the woofers to mount over the face plate of the tweeter moving the acoustic centers as close in as possible to minimize this effect.

With the X-CS you are good to about 20 degrees off axis. After that you will start to see a slight dip in response in the 900Hz range.

I am not sure what to think of the review you guys posted a link to. It is a bit discouraging to spend so much time designing a very high quality speaker only to have it reviewed using a cheap home theater receiver and DVD player.

Most of his imaging observations are completely related to his electronics and positioning. Silver interconnects with that gear sounds scary to me. No wonder he had issues with the highs. Trust me there are no issues with the highs at high volumes or any loose of control.

I heard a pair of X-LS's this past week end at Gary Dodd's house (Dodd Audio). He played the hell out of them with 150 watt tube mono-blocks and played them so hard that the curtains 2 feet behind them were dancing hard from the air blowing from the ports. The highs were smooth as glass and held up with ease. There was zero congestion or compression. In front of the tube amps was one of the best pre-amps ever made and a modified DAC-60 DA converter being feed info from a CEC transport. It was top notch gear. It is the kind or gear that should be used to make do a review. Regardless of the price point of any item being reviewed, you should never bottle neck it with entry level crap. This will not allow you to know the true capabilities but more of the limitations of the upstream components.

On the contrary the similarly priced Paradigm or Axiom speakers aren't even close. I guarantee you that the X-LS will beat the paints off of them. They can even be taken a step or two further with a few minor tweaks. See thread on inexpensive upgrades here: http://www.av123forum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=15371

Hey, don't take my word for it. Try them out. You can return them if you don't like them.

 

[billnchristy]

My previous speakers were Infinity Ref 2000.4s that I bought in the late 90s for $149 a piece on closeout.

In July I bought a set of B-stock black X-LS.

Since then I have purchased 3 X-CS, 1 pair X-LS in Ferrari Red, 1 X-sub, 1 pair of Rocket 760s and a RSC200 center, an SP3 tube amp, and 3 Ref .5s for my parents, and I have 2 MFW-15 subs preordered.

Think I was a little impressed?

 

[Pianoman84d]

I feel obliged to chime in here. I didn't earlier b/c these were my first real audio purchase (prior speakers were fluance av-htb, which were ok for their price but are no comparison to good quality stuff).

On the X-LS: They are wonderful. I guess one way I can share how good they are is the fact that they differentiated between my Onkyo 502 as a receiver and a Panasonic XR-55 digital receiver. With the onkyo, the soundstage was not believable to me. With the Panasonic, everything is right. That in my mind shows me that the X-LS were being held back by the Onkyo and are superb speakers. Like Danny (the designer) said, how about ordering them and trying them. If you don't like them, send them back.

 

[j_garcia]

I am not sure what to think of the review you guys posted a link to. It is a bit discouraging to spend so much time designing a very high quality speaker only to have it reviewed using a cheap home theater receiver and DVD player.

I understand completely what you are saying, however you have to figure at $200/pr, the probability is very high that this is the type of person and level of equipment who is going to be buying these speakers; far moreso than the guys with 150w tube monos and modded preamps I'd say. That review, just like 99.9% of the reviews at Audioreview or any Big Box store's online reviews, has to be taken with a grain of salt because those people aren't usually the best judges of quality gear and in fact most probably have never even heard truly good quality gear.

 

[billy p]

Question

where is this review nobody gives credence to? The only review I've seen is the one posted @ goodsound and I respect them.
Here is the link http://www.goodsound.com/equipment/av123_xls_xsub.htm

I guess since he didn't fall all over them I guess he's out to lunch too?

 

[silversurfer]

I understand completely what you are saying, however you have to figure at $200/pr, the probability is very high that this is the type of person and level of equipment who is going to be buying these speakers; far moreso than the guys with 150w tube monos and modded preamps I'd say. That review, just like 99.9% of the reviews at Audioreview or any Big Box store's online reviews, has to be taken with a grain of salt because those people aren't usually the best judges of quality gear and in fact most probably have never even heard truly good quality gear.

Here is a list of equipment the reviewer used with the speakers:

I used the x-ls and x-sub in two separate systems. When the speakers arrived, I put them on the mantle of my living-room fireplace and hooked them up to a Rogue Audio Tempest II integrated amplifier and Rotel RCD-1070 CD player using Analysis Plus Silver Oval-In interconnects and Big Silver Oval speaker cables. When it came time to critically evaluate the AV123s, I moved them into my home theater and used them with a B&K AVR307 receiver, a Denon DVD-2900 universal player, Analysis Plus Silver Oval-In interconnect, and Kimber Kable 4PR speaker cables. In the theater, I put the speakers on homemade speaker stands.

I highly doubt that the majority of buyers of the speakers will use this high of level of gear.

j-garcia, are you equating the Goodsound review to those on Audioreview or big box store inline reviews?

 

[j_garcia]

The review link I saw previously was actually for M22s...so I hand't actually seen the review yet. Assumed it was a private forum review based on what Danny said, so is he talking about a different review? I've seen private reviews of them also that were not exactly glowing, but they were also comparing them to far more expensive speakers. I use my 2900 in evaluation of speakers also.

 

[silversurfer]

The review link I saw previously was actually for M22s...so I hand't actually seen the review yet. Assumed it was a private forum review based on what Danny said, so is he talking about a different review? I've seen private reviews of them also that were not exactly glowing, but they were also comparing them to far more expensive speakers. I use my 2900 to evaluation of speakers also.

I see the confusion. The link I posted points to the current review which is of the M22's. The X-LS review got moved off to the archive which billy p has linked to.

But yes, that is the review that Danny is referring to.

 

[billnchristy]

They do what they do great. Are they $1000 bookshelfs for 200? No. But I would bet that compared to a store speaker you are looking more at $400 or so. Of course, vs. other internet direct brands I think they perform on the 200ish range level.

That being said, They are awesome for a second system or a first "real" system. Would I put them in a dedicated theater? Probably not until the full tower line comes out.

When all is said and done, I have never seen a $280 set of speakers look like this either: