sholling said:
Oh I don't disagree. That's why I called them sales slugs! The fact remains that it's none of the manufacturers' business where you buy your product. And as long as you have broken no law (theft) to get your hands on it they should be required to honor their warranty - period, end of story! I simply will not do any business with any company that plays this kind of price pumping game.
An excellent example is the Denon AVR-2807. I really like Denon products and I've found this one as low as $765 delivered to my door. Of course Denon won't honor their warranty if I it buy from this or any other discounter. It tarnishes the exclusivity/coolness factor of the brand. Denon simply insists that you to spend at least $1,100 for this same product so that everyone will feel that you have something ethereal. And more importantly, so that every “authorized” retailer and their sales slugs will push Denon's products over equal or better products simply because of huge built-in markups/sales-commissions caused by a manufacturer imposed ban on same-brand competition. Don't get me wrong. The AVR-2807 is a really nice, if way over priced mid-line receiver. It's just that the way that Denon price-pumps it that makes it a consumer/audiophile rip-off. Call it a good quality product prostituted by marketed Bose style marketing. Until they change their policy I will not buy their products
I'm an A/V integrator and completely dissagree with your staments and posts on this subject. I appreciate that there are companies out there prohibiting sales of their products online. IT IS ABSOLUTELY THE RIGHT OF THE MANUFACTURER TO MONITOR AND POLICE WHERE THEIR PRODUCTS ARE SOLD. And it isn't only because of price. Some manufacturers require training on their products to be authorized to sell. There is also a concern of customer service and the ability to provide technical support. Anybody can put pictures on a website and attach a price tag. Many webistes will advertise low low prices only to force you to call them to "confirm your order" so that they can bombard you with expensive add ons before they will ship you the product. A lot of brands don't want their company associated with those types of business practices. Can you blame them? Did you know that many companies selling consumer electronics online purchase their products over seas, or refurb and are selling gray market goods? It is nearly impossible for a manufacturer to have any control over distrbution, sales practices, quality of service, quality of repair on refurb, etc. if their products are sold online like a free for all. And there would be no way for them to police protected territories for their dealers. What's that you say? You won't buy from a "bad guy" online retailer? Psft! How do you, or the average consumer, know if the online "dealer" is good or not until you make a purchase? The manufacture doesn't care to or have the time to go around checking all of this out. Many companies own mulitple websites that screw people left and right. Don't like *^%$audio.com? Try *&^%Speakers.com... only, whooops, they're the same guys from *^%$audio.com who stuck it to you earlier it's just that the website looks different. This is very true and happens all the time.
Exclusivity can play a part in purchasing and pricing audio gear. Just like watches and cars. The old saying the you can't drive a Porsche on a Chevy budget is usually true. How can you be upset that a manufacturer won't authorize the sale of their products on the internet which is basically a huge flea market?
The fact that you are even talking to "sales slugs" about audio is comical. Why would you ask them their opinion (and then reference it to support yourself) only to discredit them?
Also, yes, the features and sound quality on a high end receiver can be worth the difference in price... as long as the rest of your gear (think: speakers and room) is up to par. There is, however, a different point of diminishing returns that is particular to each individual listener.
The receiver companies don't typically care what your local dealer sells something for. Nor do they have a way to police or govern them. If a local retailer won't give you a fair price go somewhere else. Don't be that guy who walks around from store to store looking at and touching all of the gear, asking questions, and then go buy it somewhere else to save $50. There is a cost for that dealer to keep his store open and provide sales support so that you can go in and actually listen to the stuff. It's worth some $ to be able to have those recourses available to you. Besides that, a good A/V integrator is not transactional based they are relationship based. They are in business to provide a full service solution. Not just flip product out the door like a Best Buy. It's what sets them apart and makes them more $. Can you blame a business for trying to make $? And no, I can't blame a consumer for wanting to save $ either. But don't complain that the prices on high end gear is too high.... that's why it's "high-end" (whatever that means is up to the individual).
As I stated earlier, buying high end audio gear is not a right. Like high end watches, cars, dining, etc. some products are viewed as status items and are priced accordingly. Are the prices comparable to performance? That depends on the consumer. The point of diminishing returns is different for every install.
Before making generalized statements and short sighted conclusions on business practices based only on your personal wants and desires try to look at the situation though the eyes of all parties involved.
