Onkyo TX-SR876, Upcoming Onkyo Models, Pioneer SC-05 or SC-07, Denon Which One?

T

theaterguy

Enthusiast
I bought a used Samsung HLT6187SX/XAA DLP HDTV 3 weeks ago and my components are a Comcast Motorola DCH3416 Cable Box (HDMI), Xbox 360 (HD Component Wires With Optical Audio because I don't have a HDMI port) Soon to have PS3 (HDMI), Samsung DVD1080P8 upscaling Dvd player (HDMI) and a Logitech Harmony One universal remote.

I just bought the Mirage Omni speaker package consisting of a pair of 550 CH front tower speakers, C150 center channel speaker, pair 150C Bookshelf's rear speakers & a used Klipsch SUB-12 Subwoofer.

I was looking at the TX-SR876 Refurb for $939.00 shipped or the Pioneer SC-05 Refurb $689.00 Shipped Or the SC-07 New for $779.00 Shipped or the Denon AVR-3310CI New for $1,088 Shipped.

I was wondering if I should wait for the new Onkyo's to come out and see if there better quality with more features catered to high def applications & if the starting price is some what comparable to the receivers I mentioned now that sales are slow?

I'm leaning toward the 876 because of the Audyssey & the HQV Reon-VX video processing and heard this unit is just a beast but runs hot.

The advantages of the Pioneer are the Ice Amps & true amp power ratings and I heard with the Omnipolar speakers I bought the MCACC works better then the Audyssey but I don't know if that is true or not and I also heard Pioneer Elite's just sound alot better then Denon's & Onkyo's but that could just be a fanboy perspective. Disadvantage is the Pioneer's don't upconvert video.

The Denon AVR-3310CI is a quality unit, sort of under powered from most reviews I read,runs at a decent temperature, full color GUI, Audyssey.

I usually buy HTIB and I'm pretty knowledgeable with video but with audio I can connect it and get it working properly but I have no idea how to calibrate it right and I have a Samsung AS720ST HTIB on my other TV that I never touched the calibration on and it sounds good but I think if it was tweaked it would sound a lot better. Just telling you this so you know I'm no expert on audio but I'm learning with this purchase.

I like my audio to sound good during loud action scenes but to still be able to hear the persons voice with out blasting the volume and I heard that the stronger the amps are in the receiver the better & THX Loudness Plus is the way to go.

So I'm on the fence now, wait for new Onkyo's or 876 or Pioneer 05,07 or Denon 3310?
 
Lordoftherings

Lordoftherings

Banned
Morning theaterguy, and Welcome to Audioholics. :)

Me, I owned the Onkyo TX-SR876, and I would not trade it for an ICE Pioneer Elite.
@ http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/ONKTXSR876BLK/Onkyo/TX-SR876-7.1-Channel-Home-Theater_receiver-black/1.html

Or the Onkyo TX-SR876 (refurb) is $939.00* right now, with free shipping. :)
The Pioneer Elite SC-05 (refurb) is $689.00*, with free shipping.
The Pioneer Elite SC-07 (refurb) is $779.00*, with free shipping.

* Check Vanns. (Oups! You already found out about that, I guess you must be visiting the same places than I do.) ;)

==> But like I said, the Onkyo TX-SR876 is the better choice in my humble opinion. ;)
>>> Important Note <<<
* The Onkyo 876 is a better match for your particular Mirage Omni speakers.
The Pioneer Elite and Denon receivers won't do as good as the Onkyo. *

*** Or you wanna wait for the newer Onkyo TX-NR3007, coming this fall?
Be my guess, it should be awesome. :) A bit more money though, but who cares. ;)

Cheers & you have a great day,
Bob
 
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T

theaterguy

Enthusiast
Lordoftherings

Just ordered the 876 brand new for $996.00 shipped and thanks for the reply.
 
Lordoftherings

Lordoftherings

Banned
Just ordered the 876 brand new for $996.00 shipped and thanks for the reply.
Congratulations! You know own one of the very best receivers in the entire world, and I ain't kidding either.
No sweat man, anytime.

Enjoy that superb piece of technology, :)
Bob
 
T

theaterguy

Enthusiast
To Lordoftherings

I forgot to ask you what the best type of speaker wire to buy is and also what wires I need to run to the Subwoofer & where should I put the Sub in the room?

I also was wondering what the best HDMI wire is for the money?

I've been reading posts & they say to buy from Monoprice because they are cheap and have quality stuff and buying Monster cable wire is just a poly to make money & there no better then any of the lower price stuff at Monoprice.

Some links to the direct products would be great thanks.
 
Lordoftherings

Lordoftherings

Banned
I forgot to ask you what the best type of speaker wire to buy is and also what wires I need to run to the Subwoofer & where should I put the Sub in the room?

I also was wondering what the best HDMI wire is for the money?

I've been reading posts & they say to buy from Monoprice because they are cheap and have quality stuff and buying Monster cable wire is just a poly to make money & there no better then any of the lower price stuff at Monoprice.

Some links to the direct products would be great thanks.
1. For your three front main speakers, I recommend 12AWG, perhaps from Blue Jeans Cable. Everybody seems to be vey satisfied with all their cables.
For all the surrounds, stay with 14AWG, don't go lower, again from Blue Jeans Cable.

2. For the sub, you just need a single interconnect RCA cable. About 3 meters long should do it. Again, Blu Jeans Cable. Or Audioquest.
* Try positioning your sub in one of the two front corner, that's a good place to start. And just check in your 876 manual, for the sub connection. It goes from the SUB Pre Out on the back of the 876, and to your sub Left input, or the LFE input.

3. HDMI cable, again, Blue Jeans Cable, or Audioquest.

4. It seems that people are happy with Blu Jeans Cable, and that they are also quite cheap in prices, very affordable and very reliable. Perhaps more so than Monoprice. Can't say for sure, as I don't use these myself. Just from what I've been reading.
* Monster Cable = Never. Stay far away from that brand, it's the devil himself. :eek:

5. Blue Jeans Cable is just at the top of your page.
Audioquest is right from their Audioquest web site.

*** For all your setup questions, check out these two very important links.
And read them carefully, plus follow all the directives.

1. Audyssey Setup Guide:
@ http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14456895#post14456895

2. Audyssey FAQ:
@ http://www.audyssey.com/faq/index.html

Good night,
Bob
 
T

theaterguy

Enthusiast
To Lordoftherings

Hi I received my receiver today, and I hooked everything up using existing 16 AWG speaker wires that were in the wall, hopefully that's good enough quality just for testing until I buy some, and a Monster RCA wire I had laying around, from the purple out on the 876 to the red input on the sub.

I have a few questions to ask you.

1: I have no idea what anything means on the back of my Klipsch Synergy Sub-12 and was wondering if you could tell me where everything should be set to 1: Gain Level 2: Low Pass Level 3: Switch with a option of 180 or Phase 4: Switch with Auto or On, here is the pic of the back. http://www.your-home-theater-design.com/images/klipsch_subwoofer_back.jpg

2: I need 1 12ft HDMI Cable & 3 6ft HDMI Cables and there is a choice between 24, 26 or 28 AWG & with or without Ferrite Cores, which ones to go with? Link to Monoprice http://www.monoprice.com/products/subdepartment.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10240 Or at the Blue Jean Company

3: My speakers are on the original post if you need to know which ones, and I hooked up the rear Bookshelf Mirage speakers as Rear Surround and I was wondering if I could use my old Pioneer CS-590 Tower Speakers, that say 3 Way Speaker System, Frequency Range 32-20000hz, Impedance 8 ohms, Max Power 150 Watt or my old Pioneer S-CR4000-K Surround Sound Bookshelf Speakers, Max Power 50 Watt, Impedance 16 ohms as the surround back for a 7.1 setup or are they too old and under powered and if so do I need another set of towers or bookshelf Mirages for the back surround?
 
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T

theaterguy

Enthusiast
Also when I buy the speaker wire should I do Banana plugs or just thread it regular threw the speakers & receiver?
 
G

gholt

Full Audioholic
Also when I buy the speaker wire should I do Banana plugs or just thread it regular threw the speakers & receiver?
You can use either. Bannana plugs are good if you need to move the speakers around a lot. Monoprice sells them for a reasonable price. Also, they would have your HDMI cable as well. Great stuff.
 
lsiberian

lsiberian

Audioholic Overlord
Also when I buy the speaker wire should I do Banana plugs or just thread it regular threw the speakers & receiver?
Get Banana plugs for the receiver. Threading wire sucks hard core.
 
Lordoftherings

Lordoftherings

Banned
Hi I received my receiver today, and I hooked everything up using existing 16 AWG speaker wires that were in the wall, hopefully that's good enough quality just for testing until I buy some, and a Monster RCA wire I had laying around, from the purple out on the 876 to the red input on the sub.

I have a few questions to ask you.

1: I have no idea what anything means on the back of my Klipsch Synergy Sub-12 and was wondering if you could tell me where everything should be set to 1: Gain Level 2: Low Pass Level 3: Switch with a option of 180 or Phase 4: Switch with Auto or On, here is the pic of the back. http://www.your-home-theater-design.com/images/klipsch_subwoofer_back.jpg

2: I need 1 12ft HDMI Cable & 3 6ft HDMI Cables and there is a choice between 24, 26 or 28 AWG & with or without Ferrite Cores, which ones to go with? Link to Monoprice http://www.monoprice.com/products/subdepartment.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10240 Or at the Blue Jean Company

3: My speakers are on the original post if you need to know which ones, and I hooked up the rear Bookshelf Mirage speakers as Rear Surround and I was wondering if I could use my old Pioneer CS-590 Tower Speakers, that say 3 Way Speaker System, Frequency Range 32-20000hz, Impedance 8 ohms, Max Power 150 Watt or my old Pioneer S-CR4000-K Surround Sound Bookshelf Speakers, Max Power 50 Watt, Impedance 16 ohms as the surround back for a 7.1 setup or are they too old and under powered and if so do I need another set of towers or bookshelf Mirages for the back surround?
Also when I buy the speaker wire should I do Banana plugs or just thread it regular threw the speakers & receiver?
Hi theaterguy,

Sorry for being late, I just came back from my doctor appointment. He said that I still have few years left on me, so all is good now. :)

All right, down to business now. :)

* That's right, eventually, try to get at the very minimum speaker cables of 14AWG for all your surrounds, and if possible 12AWG for the three front ones.

* Monster cable RCA interconnect cable between your receiver and your sub, well, because you already have it, I won't say anything... it will do.
And you're right; it goes from the sub pre out (purple) from your receiver's back, to the Low Level RCA In on the rear of your sub.
* Here, I recommend that you use a 'Y' connector, and use it to connect to the Right (red) and Left (white) Inputs of your subwoofer. You just gain a bit of total Gain by doing so, and it helps to keep some possible noise interference from the other exposed RCA terminal input.

*** Your questions & answers:

1. Sub's Gain Level: Set the knob at 1/3 of it's rotation's position.

2. Low Pass Level (or Filter): Set it to it's maximum position (clockwise).
[If there is a Bypass switch, use it, to it's ON position.]

3. Phase switch: Set it to it's 180 degree position.

4. Auto/On/Off: Set that switch to ON.
________________________________

5. HDMI cables: Get the 24AWG ones. Ferrite Cores is unecessary.
________________________________

6. Speakers & Connections: Your best pair of speakers (and possibly the biggest ones too), the Pioneer CS-590 Towers goes to the two front Main posts.
The center, well...
The Side Surrounds should be your Pioneer S-CR4000-K.
The Rear Surrounds should be your Mirage Bookshelf speakers.
* This is because in 5.1-channel listening, I believe that you'll get a better seamless surround sound experience from these Pioneer speakers, made from the same manufacturer. But you can try to switch them with the Mirage, and see if what you hear, sounds better to your own ears. It's all about experimenting my friend.

7. You don't need big speakers for the Side and Rear Surrounds, because you are going to cross them at 80hz or so anyway.

8. (From your 2nd quote): Banana plugs for sure, they are the most easy to install, and they are also trouble-free. No risk of shutting down your receiver or damage your speakers here, because of exposed threads of wires.

9. *** MOST IMPORTANT ADVICE ***
--> Read attentively the two links that I already gave you on Audyssey Setup Guide & Audyssey FAQ, from my previous post (post #6).

Happy listening time, :)
Bob
 
T

theaterguy

Enthusiast
To Lordoftherings

Can I go 12AWG Belden 5000UE all around, its cheaper from Blue Jean Company then going with 12 Belden & 14 Canare 4S11 which is $1.35 a foot?

What wire do you suggest for the sub, it needs to be 12 feet & also which Y connector and please add a link?

I was only saying the Pioneer stuff as a back surround because I bought the 5 speaker Mirage package from vans and I have a pair of Pioneer towers & surrounds, so now I know to use the Pioneer bookshelf's as the back surround.

I'm hoping I can get the Banana plugs right it looks like it's some work.

Again thanks for all the info.
 
Lordoftherings

Lordoftherings

Banned
Can I go 12AWG Belden 5000UE all around, its cheaper from Blue Jean Company then going with 12 Belden & 14 Canare 4S11 which is $1.35 a foot?

What wire do you suggest for the sub, it needs to be 12 feet & also which Y connector and please add a link?

I was only saying the Pioneer stuff as a back surround because I bought the 5 speaker Mirage package from vans and I have a pair of Pioneer towers & surrounds, so now I know to use the Pioneer bookshelf's as the back surround.

I'm hoping I can get the Banana plugs right it looks like it's some work.

Again thanks for all the info.
Of course you can. And it is better that way too (12AWG all the way around). Right on. :)

* For the subwoofer interconnect, you should also be able to get one from Blue Jeans Cable, you just need a 4 or 5 meters good solid single interconnect with double shielding, copper wiring, and two solid RCA plugs at both ends, that's all. About $20 or so.
* For a 'Y' connector, you just need a simple 2 in 1 short (4 to 6 inches) RCA Y connector with good quality plugs at both ends, that's all. About $5, from Blue Jeans Cable.
-> Don't need a link for that my friend, it's right there in top of the page, just click on the "Blue Jeans Cable" logo.

* As for your Surround speakers, just do as I said, EXPERIMENT, that's all.

* Banana plugs: They're cheap, $5 for a set of 4, that's all. Check Blue Jeans Cable once more. Look for the type with two small screws that you tight on the wire, not the clamp type one (those nasty ones that you use a pair of plyers to cramp on the cable, I hate those, they always brake).

OK, you should be good to go now. And if you have any more questions, well, you know where to find me, right? :)

Have fun to get setup, :)
Bob
 
T

theaterguy

Enthusiast
To Lordoftherings

Hi I have not had time to order anything but had a few more questions.

1: I was reading that 24AWG for 6ft & 12ft application is too thick and may be hard to bend and could pop out or break HDMI ports is that true, also I read with that short of distances you can't tell between 28 & 24, also true or not?

2: With the Locking Banana Plugs from BJC for $5.25 is that 4 for all ends or just 2 for 1 end?

3: What do you think about either of these Banana Plugs

http://cgi.ebay.com/24-Locking-Banana-Speaker-Cable-Plugs-GLS-Audio-P-BL24_W0QQitemZ350212321414QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item518a47f086&_trksid=p4634.c0.m14.l1262

http://cgi.ebay.com/24-Nakamichi-Speaker-banana-plug-connector-24K-015384D_W0QQitemZ180353358027QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item29fde5d8cb&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14
 
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T

Tiguron

Audioholic Intern
Sorry to butt in -

I would go with the original plan to use the Mirage towers and Mirage center up front. Experiment with the surround channels. If the Pioneer's don't work you can always get some more 150's or a pair of nano's.
 
I

iso9001

Audioholic Intern
I don't want to start and Audyssey discussion or conflict... but...

I hate Audyssey's idea of speaker levels. It's fine for determining the distance, works really well actually. However, it SUCKS for setting the level of each speaker. Gives almost nothing to the rear surround and mid surrounds (7.1).
 
Lordoftherings

Lordoftherings

Banned
Hi I have not had time to order anything but had a few more questions.

1: I was reading that 24AWG for 6ft & 12ft application is too thick and may be hard to bend and could pop out or break HDMI ports is that true, also I read with that short of distances you can't tell between 28 & 24, also true or not?

2: With the Locking Banana Plugs from BJC for $5.25 is that 4 for all ends or just 2 for 1 end?

3: What do you think about either of these Banana Plugs

http://cgi.ebay.com/24-Locking-Banana-Speaker-Cable-Plugs-GLS-Audio-P-BL24_W0QQitemZ350212321414QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item518a47f086&_trksid=p4634.c0.m14.l1262

http://cgi.ebay.com/24-Nakamichi-Speaker-banana-plug-connector-24K-015384D_W0QQitemZ180353358027QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item29fde5d8cb&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14
4: I was looking for a high quality wire stripper and came across these but which model number would I need for 12AWG because there are three models for 3 different strip sizes for 12AWG & if you know of a better one let me know?

http://www.idealindustries.com/products/wire_processing/hand_tools/stripmaster.jsp
Hi theaterguy,

1. Too thick! Who told you that? It won't break, or they wouln't make it in the first place, right? But it's true that 28AWG for a short HDMI cable is plenty sufficient.

2. Just ask them. But it don't really matter, because 2 or 4, it's still a great price for locking banana plugs.

3. Locking banana plugs are the very best, period. The best ones are German made, but they cost considerably more. WBT is their logo.

4. For a wire stripper, simply get a universal one from a hardware store, they only cost few dollars.

*** Anything else? :)

Bob
 
Lordoftherings

Lordoftherings

Banned
I don't want to start and Audyssey discussion or conflict... but...

I hate Audyssey's idea of speaker levels. It's fine for determining the distance, works really well actually. However, it SUCKS for setting the level of each speaker. Gives almost nothing to the rear surround and mid surrounds (7.1).
Just simply adjust their levels manually till you are pleased with them. :)
 
T

theaterguy

Enthusiast
To Lordoftherings

I got everything hooked up with all the wires & plugs you suggested and bought another set of Mirage Bookshelf Speakers for the rear surround because they were on sale so I have a full 7.1 Mirage system now.

I set the Subwoofer to what you suggested and ran the Audyssey for 3 seats 1 middle, 2 right seat, 3 left seat all on the top edge of the couch at ear level.

Here Are the results.

SP Config

Subwoofer Yes
All Speakers are Full Band
Surr Back CH 2CH

Distance SP Level

Left 14.0 Ft +1.5 DB
Center 12.5 Ft + 2.5 DB
Right 15.0 Ft + 2.0 DB
Surr Right 9.0 Ft + 2.0 DB
Surr Back R 12.5 Ft + 2.0 DB
Surr Back L 12.5 Ft + 1.5 DB
Surr Left 8.5 Ft + 2.0 DB
Sub 11.5 Ft - 6.5 DB

I read the Audyssey setup and understood most of it but not all and was wondering if these numbers are good,right or correct plus I haven't watched a Hi Def movie yet but the rears might be under powered and the sub not so loud would that be correct from the numbers you see and if so what level should I adjust each one at?

Also what do I go threw with different sound settings on the remote because I've been pressing the Surr & THX button and I really don't know where to be at?
 
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