Onkyo RZ50 Power Output

[Isosevodes]

Can anyone provide information regarding the ONKYO RZ 50 power output driving 8 ohm speakers in a 5 Channel and 7 Channel setup? The only information that I can locate utilizes a "1 kHz Psweep test driving 2 Channels" which of course reveals 120 watts. Thank you in advance.

 

[everettT]

Can anyone provide information regarding the ONKYO RZ 50 power output driving 8 ohm speakers in a 5 Channel and 7 Channel setup? The only information that I can locate utilizes a "1 kHz Psweep test driving 2 Channels" which of course reveals 120 watts. Thank you in advance.

There is no simple answer as as all channels are not playing the same load. What speakers and is what is your concern?

 

[lovinthehd]

Sounds like you're seeking an all channels powered rating? Those are only so useful IRL, too. Some bench testing will cover it tho. Maybe try this one for some more info https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/onkyo-tx-rz50-review-home-theater-avr.30842/

 

[TLS Guy]

Can anyone provide information regarding the ONKYO RZ 50 power output driving 8 ohm speakers in a 5 Channel and 7 Channel setup? The only information that I can locate utilizes a "1 kHz Psweep test driving 2 Channels" which of course reveals 120 watts. Thank you in advance.

I hope you have not bought it. That seems a really dreadful receiver. It power limits at higher power levels higher than about 20 to 30watts to 20 watts per channel to protect it. The DAC seems to be poor, especially when bass management is engaged. So it seems you will really have to use it in pure mode only. So no point in buying a sub. So you need full range speakers.

Amir does not recommend that receiver, and in fact gives strong recommendation to avoid it. If they are going to produce that sort of junk, they won't be around long.
With the DAC issues it is not even any good with external amps. Avoid junk and this is.

 

[Isosevodes]

Thank you all for your input.

 

[Kingnoob]

I hope you have not bought it. That seems a really dreadful receiver. It power limits at higher power levels higher than about 20 to 30watts to 20 watts per channel to protect it. The DAC seems to be poor, especially when bass management is engaged. So it seems you will really have to use it in pure mode only. So no point in buying a sub. So you need full range speakers.

Amir does not recommend that receiver, and in fact gives strong recommendation to avoid it. If they are going to produce that sort of junk, they won't be around long.
With the DAC issues it is not even any good with external amps. Avoid junk and this is.

Wow that is terrible is it just this model or are all new ONKYO using this limiting feature?

 

[dlaloum]

Can anyone provide information regarding the ONKYO RZ 50 power output driving 8 ohm speakers in a 5 Channel and 7 Channel setup? The only information that I can locate utilizes a "1 kHz Psweep test driving 2 Channels" which of course reveals 120 watts. Thank you in advance.

I run the smaller cousin of the RZ50, the Integra DRX3.4 - basically the same as an RZ50, with slightly less power, and 1 less channel.

The amp had difficulties with my speakers, which is understandable, given my main L/C/R speakers all go down to 1.6ohm.

Although issues were experienced with the amp self protecting in lab tests at 5W@4ohm continuous - in actual use, browsing the Onkyo threads - no one has experienced this "nanny mode" issue.

In my case, I have used external power amps to handle my L/C/R speakers, while leaving the surrounds and heights (all of which are easy 8ohm designs) to the AVR's power amps.

Results have been excellent.

These are fantastic value AVR's, especially given Dirac Live comes built in, at no additional cost

However, if you want to try Dirac ART, then these may not be a good option - there has been no word from Onkyo/Integra about deploying ART in their range...

Personally I am giving them till January to make some sort of announcement, otherwise I will be looking at moving to Denon, just so I can get access to ART...

 

[dlaloum]

Wow that is terrible is it just this model or are all new ONKYO using this limiting feature?

The protective nanny mode was triggered during a continuous 5W@8ohm test on ASR...

Are they being overly protective? possibly...

In the real world, no one on the various Forum threads has encountered this issue with their 4ohm speakers!

I did encounter some issues with my 4ohm (nominal, spec) speakers, but they have a minimum impedance of 1.6ohm.... yet even with that, my Integra DRX3.4 (which uses the same amp design, and has the same nanny protection circuit ) never went into "protection"

But consider:
1) 5W continuous would be way way too loud in my setup and room (typically my amps run at around 1W, with occasional rare moments of up to 4W, and momentary peaks that have never exceeded 16W)
2) There were clearly issues driving my speakers... imaging was poor, vocals/dialogue was confused - moving to an external amp resolved these issues immediately! - hence my assumption that it was unhappy with the low impedance.
3) I also tried it with my 8ohm alternate speakers (B&O Penta) and it handled them just fine!
4) Many people with 4ohm speakers participate in the forums and have never experienced the nanny mode protection circuit... so real life looks different from that specific lab test.

I think the whole "nanny mode" protection circuit thing, is a storm in a teacup, and should be ignored.

 

[TLS Guy]

The protective nanny mode was triggered during a continuous 5W@8ohm test on ASR...

Are they being overly protective? possibly...

In the real world, no one on the various Forum threads has encountered this issue with their 4ohm speakers!

I did encounter some issues with my 4ohm (nominal, spec) speakers, but they have a minimum impedance of 1.6ohm.... yet even with that, my Integra DRX3.4 (which uses the same amp design, and has the same nanny protection circuit ) never went into "protection"

But consider:
1) 5W continuous would be way way too loud in my setup and room (typically my amps run at around 1W, with occasional rare moments of up to 4W, and momentary peaks that have never exceeded 16W)
2) There were clearly issues driving my speakers... imaging was poor, vocals/dialogue was confused - moving to an external amp resolved these issues immediately! - hence my assumption that it was unhappy with the low impedance.
3) I also tried it with my 8ohm alternate speakers (B&O Penta) and it handled them just fine!
4) Many people with 4ohm speakers participate in the forums and have never experienced the nanny mode protection circuit... so real life looks different from that specific lab test.

I think the whole "nanny mode" protection circuit thing, is a storm in a teacup, and should be ignored.

The poorer performance once bass management is engaged due to double decoding is a bigger issue.

If your speakers have a minimal impedance of 1.6 ohms, then that is a giant red flag. That means that likely that the impedance drops below the DC resistance. If that is so, that is one of the worst design errors a designer can commit. It means to crossover is in resonance. Disgraceful poor design in speakers is rampant. That issue is a massive amp buster as well.

 

[dlaloum]

The poorer performance once bass management is engaged due to double decoding is a bigger issue.

If your speakers have a minimal impedance of 1.6 ohms, then that is a giant red flag. That means that likely that the impedance drops below the DC resistance. If that is so, that is one of the worst design errors a designer can commit. It means to crossover is in resonance. Disgraceful poor design in speakers is rampant. That issue is a massive amp buster as well.

I agree with your description as an "amp buster" - a lot of amps don't do well with it.

In terms of design - well Anthony Gallo clearly made some distinctly left field design decisions - the end result was an excellent speaker (you can look up the reviews of the Nucleus Reference series...) - and one of very very few I have found to be satisfying after years of using electrostatic speakers (the stats had to go due to WAF issues)

But they have viscerally demonstrated to me how different amps can sound when stressed!!

I now have 2 sets of power amps both of which handle these speakers without concern - the Quad 606 & 707, and some Crown XLS2500's. (yes the Quad's are indeed unconditionally stable into ANY load)

As to whether it is a design error - well, the "standards" for speakers, are an arbitrary convention... and stepping outside such conventions allows lattitude that can result in surprisingly good results.... but it also requires that buyers/users be aware of the quirks... low impedance is one quirk, capacitive tweeter is another, very wide (semi-omni) dispersion is another one.

 

[TLS Guy]

I agree with your description as an "amp buster" - a lot of amps don't do well with it.

In terms of design - well Anthony Gallo clearly made some distinctly left field design decisions - the end result was an excellent speaker (you can look up the reviews of the Nucleus Reference series...) - and one of very very few I have found to be satisfying after years of using electrostatic speakers (the stats had to go due to WAF issues)

But they have viscerally demonstrated to me how different amps can sound when stressed!!

I now have 2 sets of power amps both of which handle these speakers without concern - the Quad 606 & 707, and some Crown XLS2500's. (yes the Quad's are indeed unconditionally stable into ANY load)

As to whether it is a design error - well, the "standards" for speakers, are an arbitrary convention... and stepping outside such conventions allows lattitude that can result in surprisingly good results.... but it also requires that buyers/users be aware of the quirks... low impedance is one quirk, capacitive tweeter is another, very wide (semi-omni) dispersion is another one.

You are lucky to have those Quads. I don't abuse mine though. Give all 13 of mine in use currently very gentle loads.

 

[dlaloum]

You are lucky to have those Quads. I don't abuse mine though. Give all 13 of mine in use currently very gentle loads.

They actually don't seem stressed.... I think the real issue isn't so much "current" but "stability"...

Actual required power in my use is (conservatively... ie: overestimating) circa 4w RMS, and 16W peak

When using the Quads they barely get warm... and the Crowns, it is harder to tell, but the case remains cool to the touch, and the fan remains off (or inaudible) - never spins up to an audible level.

But the perfectly good amps in the Integra DRX3.4 AVR, sound confused, image collapses, vocals get muddled - they clearly are NOT happy with these speakers. Whereas it handles all my other surround and height speakers... all 8ohm... with ease, and without stress.

Anyone who claims "all amps sound alike" - I can demonstrate that it is not the case at my home!!
But yes - swap in the relatively easy to drive B&O Penta as the main L/R (currently in service as Surround) - and indeed all the amps sound alike!

 

[PENG]

Anyone who claims "all amps sound alike" - I can demonstrate that it is not the case at my home!!
But yes - swap in the relatively easy to drive B&O Penta as the main L/R (currently in service as Surround) - and indeed all the amps sound alike!

Haha, that's taking things out of context or simply too literally. I don't believe anyone (okay I concede, there's always a few idiots) who claims all amps sound alike mean it literally. Yes if you take it literally then you believe those "anyone" would mean a $30 brand new class AB amp, a Nelson Pass 5 W class A amp camp amp and your Quad amp would sound the alike in your home. If that case, you surely wouldn't bother taking the time to do a demo right?

Let's, or at least a high calibre poster like yourself, stop making counter claims to the all amps sound alike (or the same) kind of claims. The "all amps sound......" claim gets quoted all the time by the subjective hobbyists who believes even a class AB Halo A21 and a Bryston 4B SST2 driving 8 ohm speakers, outputting 10 W average, would sound different, different enough to them that they would say it proves to them that each amp has its own sound signature.