Onkyo Pure Audio with Sub?

[Jay_C]

Hi Guys

I’m using Pure Audio setting when listen to music which means the Subs Is not used and can’t be enabled, I’m getting good bass response from my fronts but would like a bit more.

The only way I can get the fronts and to work together is using the Stereo Option. However I can’t get it to sound like the pure option

Any Suggestion on setting changes to help this?

Thanks

 

[MDS]

You may be able to use the 'Double Bass' setting (aka LFE+MAIN in other brands) in pure direct mode. That will send the bass from the front speakers to the sub in addition to the front speakers.

 

[Jay_C]

You may be able to use the 'Double Bass' setting (aka LFE+MAIN in other brands) in pure direct mode. That will send the bass from the front speakers to the sub in addition to the front speakers.

Thanks for the quick response,

I’ve just tested you r idea unfortunately the double bass setting can’t be set in Pure Audio mode.

I have also tested it using Direct Mode which is similar to Pure Audio but allows a bit of processing to be added manually, this also didn’t work.

 

[sholling]

Pure Audio is intended for use with full range speakers and disables the sub. Despite the hype in the manual I don't see it as a plus and prefer to use stereo mode for stereo music.

 

[Jay_C]

Pure Audio is intended for use with full range speakers and disables the sub. Despite the hype in the manual I don't see it as a plus and prefer to use stereo mode for stereo music.

Ye i tend to agree with you, really just looking to change a few setting in stereo mode to remove some of the processing to maybe give a bit of a cleaner sound.

 

[LAB3]

Some subs have "High Level Inputs" on the back of them. So you can take the L&R speaker wires from the amp to the sub then to your speakers. This way if you don't want to hear the subs on "Pure" mode just turn off the sub. I am lucky my Yamaha AVR has a "Pure Direct" no processor no LFE and it has a "Straight Analog" mode that only adds the LFE(no other processor or eq used) if your AVR has has low level line inputs on the back. There is some analog music that use my subs on. Hope this helps
Louis

 

[Jay_C]

Some subs have "High Level Inputs" on the back of them. So you can take the L&R speaker wires from the amp to the sub then to your speakers. This way if you don't want to hear the subs on "Pure" mode just turn off the sub. I am lucky my Yamaha AVR has a "Pure Direct" no processor no LFE and it has a "Straight Analog" mode that only adds the LFE(no other processor or eq used) if your AVR has has low level line inputs on the back. There is some analog music that use my subs on. Hope this helps
Louis

My Sub does in fact have "High Level Inputs".

My Sub is at the back of my room, thats alot of rewiring

If I where to you that would that make the Line Input(LFE) redundant?

I suppose if I where to get a new sub and move the old one to
the front and use that sub for music using the "High Level Inputs".

LOL Any excuse to buy something new ehh

 

[sholling]

Ye i tend to agree with you, really just looking to change a few setting in stereo mode to remove some of the processing to maybe give a bit of a cleaner sound.

As long as you're in stereo mode and not one of the artificial stadium type modes I doubt that you'd be able to detect any processing other than Audyssey room correction.

 

[LAB3]

My Sub does in fact have "High Level Inputs".

My Sub is at the back of my room, thats alot of rewiring

If I where to you that would that make the Line Input(LFE) redundant?

I suppose if I where to get a new sub and move the old one to
the front and use that sub for music using the "High Level Inputs".

LOL Any excuse to buy something new ehh

Right now in my bedroom I have one sub in the other corner and had to run speaker wire(unhooked) from front right to it and then back to my speaker.
35 feet of speaker wire tucked down in the carpet at the baseboard was worth the time and money for just my two Klipsch Heresy II and a sub on for my flatt screen. I loaned my 2003 bedroom AVR to a friend while his Pioneer AVR is in the shop. Had to dig out my old Kenwood Receiver from the late 1980's that did not have a LFE plug. I was suprised how nice the HII sound on that old Kenwood. Happy hunting for a new sub as there are so many to look at. Speaker wire was lot cheeper( friend paid for it and helped) then the long LFE wire I purchased 3 years ago.

 

[Jay_C]

Right now in my bedroom I have one sub in the other corner and had to run speaker wire(unhooked) from front right to it and then back to my speaker.
35 feet of speaker wire tucked down in the carpet at the baseboard was worth the time and money for just my two Klipsch Heresy II and a sub on for my flatt screen. I loaned my 2003 bedroom AVR to a friend while his Pioneer AVR is in the shop. Had to dig out my old Kenwood Receiver from the late 1980's that did not have a LFE plug. I was suprised how nice the HII sound on that old Kenwood. Happy hunting for a new sub as there are so many to look at. Speaker wire was lot cheeper( friend paid for it and helped) then the long LFE wire I purchased 3 years ago.

So when i connect using "High Level Inputs" i leave the Pre-Out LFE wire connected as well?

 

[TulsaSKD]

So when i connect using "High Level Inputs" i leave the Pre-Out LFE wire connected as well?

I dont think you have to have the LFE wire when you have the speakers plugged right into the Sub.

 

[LAB3]

So when i connect using "High Level Inputs" i leave the Pre-Out LFE wire connected as well?

NO. One at a time.......... at least on my old BASH amp I would Not leave them both hooked up. Maybe someone that has more knowledge of this then I do will post up. Two signal at one time to my subs amp ????

 

[Jay_C]

ok i wasnt sure if maybe LFE had slighty differant signal for film and HiLevel was really intended for Music.

Didnt want to be missing any audio tracks.

 

[markw]

Play it safe.

Use EITHER the speaker level route OR the LFE/line level route. NOT both. Using both may or may not work and/or damage may occur. Do you feel lucky?

As for this "pure direct" or whatever they call the "straight through with no digital intervention" scheme on your receiver, the goal is to pass the signal through as few processes as possible. When you choose the "pure" signal, you forgo the LFE processing. That means no sub-woofer signal.

It's a choice you need to make.

 

[LAB3]

Use EITHER the speaker level route OR the LFE/line level route. NOT both. Using both may or may not work and/or damage may occur. Do you feel lucky?

As for this "pure direct" or whatever they call the "straight through with no digital intervention" scheme on your receiver, the goal is to pass the signal through as few processes as possible. When you choose the "pure" signal, you forgo the LFE processing. That means no sub-woofer signal.

It's a choice you need to make.

On my newest Yamaha AVR RX-V1900 HD 7.2 it has a "Pure Direct" mode no LFE or processor to amps just pre/amp and amp are used. But this AVR also has a "Straight" mode no processor but my Subs work. So I can have my Subs wired with LFE cables and use them or not on these modes that by passes the Eq chip etc. I use to have tube seperates 30 years ago and we did not have a Sub I was Suprised how nice the wimpy Yamaha AVR amps play my old Cornwalls.

The OP may not have LFE signal thru the speaker wires but it does have ALL the signal. My sub in the bedroom just plays the Bass signal and sends on the complete signal to your front speakers. So he can have the sub on while on his "Pure" mode. Yes he needs to plug and un plug his sub when he changes to a Bluray etc HDMI being used.

 

[markw]

Making a choice

On my newest Yamaha AVR RX-V1900 HD 7.2 it has a "Pure Direct" mode no LFE or processor to amps just pre/amp and amp are used.

This is the most "pure" way to pass a stereo signal through the receiver. This is what the "audiophiles" want: The signal, as pure as God intended with no additional processing. In such case, this choice means you get out exactly what you put in. Stereo has NO LFE channel to begin with so nothing is lost. It pays to have good mains here. If one doesn't, then one should not be playing the audiophile game here.

But this AVR also has a "Straight" mode no processor but my Subs work.

This does imply a minimum amount of signal processing to eke out some sort of common bass channel from a stereo signal. It's not pure but, to me, if it's available it presents a decent compromise, particularly if the mains aren't up to the task of handling the full range required for satisfying musical enjoyment. Whether or not this will still allow one to claim the highly desired "audiophile" status, I don't know, but that's a decision everyone has to make for themselves.

Of course, if one doesn't have something akin to this "straight" mode you describe, then the option still exists to run the sub at the speaker level, set the receiver to "no sub-woofer", the mains to "large", and take it as it comes. All the music, or whatever, will be channeled to the mains and the sub will still pick it up, albeit without any fancy bass management. This would work great with the "pure direct" mode that audiophiles love.

I personally use a sub but run the mains full range and use the crossover in the sub as a low pass filter to only send what the mains can't handle to it and, for music, use the "stereo" mode. Like Sholling said, I don't hear any difference between this and a more direct mode. I don't worry if people consider me an "audiophile" or not. I've been playing this game to long and have enough confidence in myself to worry about labels.

 

[Jay_C]

As long as you're in stereo mode and not one of the artificial stadium type modes I doubt that you'd be able to detect any processing other than Audyssey room correction.

i would never use anything like that ever, im fact i dont even know why that is even an option and why people would want to use it.

but yes that is all i have set is room correction.

 

[Jay_C]

This is the most "pure" way to pass a stereo signal through the receiver. This is what the "audiophiles" want: The signal, as pure as God intended with no additional processing. In such case, this choice means you get out exactly what you put in. Stereo has NO LFE channel to begin with so nothing is lost. It pays to have good mains here. If one doesn't, then one should not be playing the audiophile game here.

This does imply a minimum amount of signal processing to eke out some sort of common bass channel from a stereo signal. It's not pure but, to me, if it's available it presents a decent compromise, particularly if the mains aren't up to the task of handling the full range required for satisfying musical enjoyment. Whether or not this will still allow one to claim the highly desired "audiophile" status, I don't know, but that's a decision everyone has to make for themselves.

Of course, if one doesn't have something akin to this "straight" mode you describe, then the option still exists to run the sub at the speaker level, set the receiver to "no sub-woofer", the mains to "large", and take it as it comes. All the music, or whatever, will be channeled to the mains and the sub will still pick it up, albeit without any fancy bass management. This would work great with the "pure direct" mode that audiophiles love.

I personally use a sub but run the mains full range and use the crossover in the sub as a low pass filter to only send what the mains can't handle to it and, for music, use the "stereo" mode. Like Sholling said, I don't hear any difference between this and a more direct mode. I don't worry if people consider me an "audiophile" or not. I've been playing this game to long and have enough confidence in myself to worry about labels.

I think my main problem the limited space in my room is my speaker position i can hear the bass fine i just dont feel the bass though my body i find the way 'markw' said "run the mains full range and use the crossover in the sub as a low pass filter to only send what the mains can't handle to it and, for music, use the "stereo" mode." works the best for me.

it doesnt take anything away for the fronts and adds a fullness to the sound in the room with out being over powering

I change the crossover to the 50Hz for music and set it set back to 80Hz for movies.

 

[jonnythan]

You clearly don't want Pure Audio because you want the receiver to do some processing. Your objection is philosophical and not practical.

 

[Jay_C]

You clearly don't want Pure Audio because you want the receiver to do some processing. Your objection is philosophical and not practical.

No. I used pure audio in another room with the same equitment and it is fantastic.

Problem is this my room has limited space and speaker position isnt great at all which is preventing me feeling the bass.

sure it not PURE but i want to get as close to pure audio with minimal processing as possable until i can fix room layout. which i have gotten.