Onkyo or Emotiva

[davidtwotrees]

David, I don't know about you, but I can sure hear the difference.


But seriously though, I may NOT be able to hear a difference between wires or anything like that, but I can hear a difference between a receiver and a dedicated line-level stereo preamp. I've compared the Harman Kardon AVR247 vs. Pioneer Elite SP99D Pre-Pro vs. Acurus RL-11 (all feeding an Acurus 200X3 Amp and in Direct Stereo Mode). The RL-11's sound was the clearest sound. The HK was second. The Pioneer Elite was last.

And the pure objectivist's here would strongly disagree with you. I haven't done any DBT, so I am not sure what I can hear, and what I can't. DVD A discs have been the only thing that really knocked my socks off, sound wise, well, and my Canton speaker upgrade. Extra amps, better sources, better wiring, have all had marginal, if any, effects. I like how my system sounds. I like music. It's all good at Chez TwoTrees. Like most of my life, I operate in the middle third of the AV world, somewhere in the middle of the Objectivists and Subjectivists. I appreciate left brained logic, but also appreicate the right brained artistic view on things as well...........the electronics are very logical and engineer like, but must be mixed with art which is often illogical and out there. A strange mix indeed.

 

[Warpdrv]

I don't own either of those brands, but I do know that I Love seperates... Get a good amp, and you can swap out Pre's any time you want... A good quality amp will last years and years..

I'm still waiting for that end all be all Pre or receiver that really delivers, so until then I'm going cheap with my Pioneer Upconverting only units... seeing as I don't have 1080p, whats the point...

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

And the pure objectivist's here would strongly disagree with you.

That's cool too.

From what I've heard, the new receivers from Onkyo, Denon, & Yamaha all sound great.

I have not audition any of these new TrueHD/DTS-MA receivers in my home. But compared to my system, these new receivers did not sound as clean in the local HT stores with any speakers they have there (Def Tech, Mirage, Klipsch, Paradigm, Polk Audio).

They probably sound a lot better at home.

 

[Kpt_Krunch]

While there is no doubt you can hear differences in different electronics, you also need the other features.

The DMC is useless as far as I am concerned for a processor receiver. I don't really care what it sounds like, it does not upconvert over HDMI (though they will give you an HDMI switch) and it's on board amps are not as powerful as an 805

I'm not trying to start a flame war here or anything, but the Onyko receivers are so far ahead of the DMR 1 it's laughable. If you don't have an HDTV yet, sure, go ahead and get one. But if you have HDTV and looking for a multiuse receiver - I'd go with the Onkyo, hands down. No contest.

Now, when the DMR-2 (or whatever it will be called) comes out - you'll have something to compare and debate about . And as I mentioned already, if you don't need something to upconvert a video source, there's no need for the Onkyo, the DMR-1 will do just fine.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

While there is no doubt you can hear differences in different electronics, you also need the other features.

The DMC is useless as far as I am concerned for a processor receiver. I don't really care what it sounds like, it does not upconvert over HDMI (though they will give you an HDMI switch) and it's on board amps are not as powerful as an 805

I'm not trying to start a flame war here or anything, but the Onyko receivers are so far ahead of the DMR 1 it's laughable. If you don't have an HDTV yet, sure, go ahead and get one. But if you have HDTV and looking for a multiuse receiver - I'd go with the Onkyo, hands down. No contest.

Now, when the DMR-2 (or whatever it will be called) comes out - you'll have something to compare and debate about . And as I mentioned already, if you don't need something to upconvert a video source, there's no need for the Onkyo, the DMR-1 will do just fine.

If I were to get a receiver, I would definitely get the Onkyo 875.

So I would only get Emotiva if I were to go with a Pre-Pro + Amp.

Convenience is something a lot of people may rank above all else. Perhaps separates may SOUND better, but the sound difference may be INSIGNIFICANT to a lot of people.

This may not be a significant issue, especially with most speakers being so efficient/sensitive these days, but I just read a review of the Pioneer Elite HD receiver that is rated at 140 WPC x 7-ch. With 2 channels, I think it was like 148 watts. But with 5 channels driven, it was like 84 watts! So if it's 7 channels driven, would it be 70 watts?

It just looks funny to me. Perhaps just educational.

 

[Bluesmoke]

At this point I don't trust Onkyo's quality. Yes, their specs for the money is really good. However, all the people complaining about breakdowns lead me to believe Onkyo cut corners on build quality to satisfy the price.

 

[Kpt_Krunch]

At this point I don't trust Onkyo's quality. Yes, their specs for the money is really good. However, all the people complaining about breakdowns lead me to believe Onkyo cut corners on build quality to satisfy the price.

That could be - I haven't researched the reliability of them a lot yet. I know that they run hot - but I wasn't aware there were a lot of issues. I guess it would be a good idea to get the extended warranty on these then!

 

[Kpt_Krunch]

If I were to get a receiver, I would definitely get the Onkyo 875.

So I would only get Emotiva if I were to go with a Pre-Pro + Amp.

Convenience is something a lot of people may rank above all else. Perhaps separates may SOUND better, but the sound difference may be INSIGNIFICANT to a lot of people.

This may not be a significant issue, especially with most speakers being so efficient/sensitive these days, but I just read a review of the Pioneer Elite HD receiver that is rated at 140 WPC x 7-ch. With 2 channels, I think it was like 148 watts. But with 5 channels driven, it was like 84 watts! So if it's 7 channels driven, would it be 70 watts?

It just looks funny to me. Perhaps just educational.

This is where 'high current' comes in. H/K is famous for this. A lot of people look at their ratings and laugh. Though comparing H/K to Pio would be like comparing German horse power to Japanese horse power. H/K always rates their amps as all channels driven equally - so 85 watts /channel x 7 is 85 watts / channel with all amps running full out at the same time. Sony and Pio - from what I've read - are famous for rating their amps ONE channel driven, that's why the discrepancy when more than one starts in. Not sure about Onkyo.

As for Separates - that is the way to go. Processors change all the time - amps don't really. Once you get a good amp - there's really no need to upgrade it. No matter what happens on the processor side, your amps will never need swapping until they (eventually) fail.

Many people do this as a dedicated amp can provide cleaner, more efficient power to their speakers. The processor is used for processing only, and usually $ for $ a stand alone processor is better than a receiver. Receivers have a place, but are (usually) a compromise to keep them affordable and competitive with other receivers from various manufacturers.

Pricing of separates can get very expensive, this is where Emotiva shines, as their pricing is very competitive with high end receiver but you get the advantage of running separates.

The bad thing is their stuff (processors / receiver anyway) is already outdated by todays standards. That is why I wouldn't get one unless it was at an incredible price, and even then I wouldn't as I would not gain much over what I already have. Their new offerings should be in line with what is available now though. The 40% off is a good deal and many people bought the outdated processors just to take advantage of that when they are available. Though if they do not have 1.3a HDMI, FOUR of them, with a scaler at least on par with Farjouda (if not the Reon), and of course the new DTS HD and Dolby HD codecs, and superior DACs (like Burr Brown or equivalent) then that 40% off won't mean much. They have, IMO, a lot of catching up to do.

I'd use an amp of theirs though in a heart beat - that MPS1 looks sweet and has received great reviews. 200 watts x 7 is plenty for most applications (you'd have plenty of headroom there) and or under 2 grand it's a steal. I'm just not ready for it yet - but I'm lalready kicking myself for not getting it.

 

[Warpdrv]

I just read a review of the Pioneer Elite HD receiver that is rated at 140 WPC x 7-ch. With 2 channels, I think it was like 148 watts. But with 5 channels driven, it was like 84 watts! So if it's 7 channels driven, would it be 70 watts?

I agree, the measurements of all receivers run this same gammut,measuring 1 channel, and posting high wattage to attract consumers, but really selling them on the features...
That is the reason I have gone cheap and bought my Pioneer Elite to use as a Pre-Amp - It had all the features I need right now, sounds great and works flawlessly, but couldn't possibly provide the power i needed by any way possible. I will never go about it any other way.. I wll always use an outboard amp to provide the grunt needed for clarity. But it will hold me over until I find that perfect Pre-Amp when really good scalers are implemented. $700.00 is a great way for me to stay current with HDMI switching, I'm just taking the cheap amp out of the loop.

I think we are at least another year away from getting a bunch of different companies to offer feature heavy Pre-Amps with standard features across the boards.. Good DAC's and better then average scalers... I think we're still in the interim of products avail. A number of companies have been holding out to offer products to consumers, playing the waiting game so their products don't become outdated so quickly...

I can't wait until I see stuff out there getting rid of all those useless connections littering up the rear of the unit. More Digital please...

 

[davidtwotrees]

...A number of companies have been holding out to offer products to consumers, playing the waiting game so their products don't become outdated so quickly...
I can't wait until I see stuff [prepros]out there getting rid of all those useless connections littering up the rear of the unit. More Digital please...

I am waiting for the YBA Design prepro...it has been delayed......I bet no doubt because of the g*%# darn HDMI and HD formats. Capitalists are always screaming "let the market decide" sometimes I just wish Big Brother would step in and make the decision for the industry. Give us some concrete standrads that everyone can use. Standardization can be a wonderful thing in some cases...........format wars just end up making everyone losers...

 

[Warpdrv]

I am waiting for the YBA Design prepro...it has been delayed......I bet no doubt because of the g*%# darn HDMI and HD formats. Capitalists are always screaming "let the market decide" sometimes I just wish Big Brother would step in and make the decision for the industry. Give us some concrete standrads that everyone can use. Standardization can be a wonderful thing in some cases...........format wars just end up making everyone losers...

I would imagine that Rotel has something waiting in the wings as well..
Now Im not too sure, if they really want to be frontrunners here, but they tried with the last 1098 Preamp.. but the market moves to fast...

Curious who else has upcoming products... Not that I'm a big Emotiva fan, but the Genesis chips coming in their units this year are supposed to be awesome.