Onkyo AVR on the blink; Turntable preamp

[Squishman]

No Idea. I just plug stuff in! Just kidding. I am no electrical engineer, but I can discern a difference with this cheap preamp. I do not understand belaboring this issue. TLS guy thinks I am clipping or blowing my ears out or ruining my fiend's loaner amp with Kinks LP's. All I said was I bought a cheap-ass tt preamp and I can tell it is cheap by my own ears. It is not heinous. It is just not as good.

 

[lovinthehd]

No Idea. I just plug stuff in! Just kidding. I am no electrical engineer, but I can discern a difference with this cheap preamp. I do not understand belaboring this issue. TLS guy thinks I am clipping or blowing my ears out or ruining my fiend's loaner amp with Kinks LP's. All I said was I bought a cheap-ass tt preamp and I can tell it is cheap by my own ears. It is not heinous. It is just not as good.

When you get your regular gear back, send that in to Amir/ASR for a run thru the test gizmo.....

I've used various phono stages built into gear as well as a stand alone unit (an ART Phono Plus) and I haven't had any issues or any particular audio differences between the various gear. I don't think I'd ever have considered buying anything Pyle, tho. I'm just curious about what might account for the audible difference.....and it is likely more in the distortion/noise area rather than simply applying the RIAA eq.....

 

[Mikado463]

I'm amazed this thread grew to 20 plus posts ......

 

[TLS Guy]

Holy buckets man.

Obviously deductive logic is not your forte.

 

[Squishman]

Obviously deductive logic is not your forte.

Why are you antagonistic towards me? This is just so weird.

 

[TLS Guy]

Why are you antagonistic towards me? This is just so weird.

I'm not antagonistic. However, if you are going to post, what you write HAS to make logical sense. To say that you hear the fault of a turntable preamp, when you play your system loud does not make logical sense. A turntable preamp can not possibly cause a volume sensitive problem. Please just think about this logically. The preamp produces the same volume at the input terminals of the receiver, irrespective of how loud you play your system. That is just irrefutable simple logic and not complicated. To contradict that is just totally illogical and frankly insane.

 

[Squishman]

I'm not antagonistic. However, if you are going to post, what you write HAS to make logical sense. To say that you hear the fault of a turntable preamp, when you play your system loud does not make logical sense. A turntable preamp can not possibly cause a volume sensitive problem. Please just think about this logically. The preamp produces the same volume at the input terminals of the receiver, irrespective of how loud you play your system. That is just irrefutable simple logic and not complicated. To contradict that is just totally illogical and frankly insane.

Why is this so important to you? I can hear the diff for the 683rd time. I can hear the difference better as I turn up the volume. I know you are smarter than me. Fine. All I ever said is I can hear the difference. Then you start taking it apart piece by piece. Why? No, don't even tell me. This is just weird as all get out.

 

[TLS Guy]

Why is this so important to you? I can hear the diff for the 683rd time. I can hear the difference better as I turn up the volume. I know you are smarter than me. Fine. All I ever said is I can hear the difference. Then you start taking it apart piece by piece. Why? No, don't even tell me. This is just weird as all get out.

I'm not doubting you hear a difference. The problem is that it defies logic to assign the problem to the turntable preamp. Clearly from your description the problem has to be downstream of the turntable preamp.

 

[Squishman]

I'm not doubting you hear a difference. The problem is that it defies logic to assign the problem to the turntable preamp. Clearly from your description the problem has to be downstream of the turntable preamp.

So it is your opinion that a $17 tt preamp is as good as a $400 tt preamp? Checkmate.

 

[TLS Guy]

So it is your opinion that a $17 tt preamp is as good as a $400 tt preamp? Checkmate.

A $400.00 preamp is audiophoolery.

As I said an RIAA eq. circuit is simple.

Here is a classic circuit that can be made from components that are inexpensive, and its a good circuit.

That is for two channels and is what the board would look like.

There is no advantage to adding complexity. So a really good RIAA phono preamp does not need to cost $400.00, although there will be plenty of scoundrels ready to part you from $400.00 and up for this simple device.

The point I really want to make is that if you get roughness known as distortion as you increase volume then the power amp, speakers or both are where you need to look.

As I remember you have pretty robust speakers. However you have had a fairly new receiver fail. Receivers are not high power devices, and generally will fail of you use them as such.

 

[highfigh]

My Onkyo AVR is busted. Seems a processor or something. HDMI arc, inputs, power and volume control mostly non-functional (yes, I tried a hard reset to no avail). Under warranty, so that's great. Also great is that the repair shop is local.
A buddy at work loaned me a much older Onkyo 5.1 avr which has no phono input. I thought I'd be shipping my amp and that it'd be multiple weeks to get it back so I bought a real cheap turntable preamp on Amazon. Now, I bet the turn around will be faster. Anyways, it's a Pyle brand. Sounds way better than I was expecting. I paid about $17 I think. Mids and highs are sharp, bass is a little muddy. But it'll get me by for hopefully not too long.

The repair shop has my amp. I hope they can fix it or have Onk send me a new one. I doubt that that would happen, but that'd be great.

Is this repair shop authorized by Onkyo to service their products? If not, expect to pay for this.

Pyle stopped making anything of quality long ago.

Listen to something else and if the sound still sucks, it's not the Pyle.

What can you tell us about the turntable and cartridge models? If it's muddy, it could be that the cartridge isn't a good match for the tonearm. Are the LPs warped? 'A little' is as bad as 'a lot'.

 

[Squishman]

Is this repair shop authorized by Onkyo to service their products? If not, expect to pay for this.

Pyle stopped making anything of quality long ago.

Listen to something else and if the sound still sucks, it's not the Pyle.

What can you tell us about the turntable and cartridge models? If it's muddy, it could be that the cartridge isn't a good match for the tonearm. Are the LPs warped? 'A little' is as bad as 'a lot'.

Holy buckets. Never said it sucks. Yes, Onk sent me to that shop.

 

[Squishman]

A $400.00 preamp is audiophoolery.

As I said an RIAA eq. circuit is simple.

Here is a classic circuit that can be made from components that are inexpensive, and its a good circuit.

That is for two channels and is what the board would look like.

There is no advantage to adding complexity. So a really good RIAA phono preamp does not need to cost $400.00, although there will be plenty of scoundrels ready to part you from $400.00 and up for this simple device.

The point I really want to make is that if you get roughness known as distortion as you increase volume then the power amp, speakers or both are where you need to look.

As I remember you have pretty robust speakers. However you have had a fairly new receiver fail. Receivers are not high power devices, and generally will fail of you use them as such.

Why would I build one when, according to you, a $17 one sounds as good as your build, or another costing more? Ok, see, I didn't say $400 this time. Just "more". You said "distortion", I never did.

 

[TLS Guy]

Is this repair shop authorized by Onkyo to service their products? If not, expect to pay for this.

Pyle stopped making anything of quality long ago.

Listen to something else and if the sound still sucks, it's not the Pyle.

What can you tell us about the turntable and cartridge models? If it's muddy, it could be that the cartridge isn't a good match for the tonearm. Are the LPs warped? 'A little' is as bad as 'a lot'.

There is one Onkyo authorized repair center in the Twin Cities metro. Alex Audio Video.

Why would I build one when, according to you, a $17 one sounds as good your build, or another costing more? Ok, see, I didn't say $400 this time. Just "more". You said "distortion", I never did.

I never said you needed to build one. I just pointed out that a turntable preamp does not have to cost a King's ransom! In a receiver like your Onkyo I can be certain the cost of the TT front end will be in the one to two dollar range at manufacture. It is a simple circuit and not rocket science. It is possible Pyle might have messed it up, but that would be something even for that junk company. However if they had mucked it up, it would sound bad at ANY volume and NOT get worse as you increased the volume. If the problem you are having is related to play back volume, then the RIAA preamp is not the cause. Plain logic tells me that has to be so.

 

[Squishman]

It doesn't get worse! If you turn up the volume on any given system, you might hear a subtle keyboard or maracas more. Same principle.

 

[highfigh]

Holy buckets. Never said it sucks. Yes, Onk sent me to that shop.

And I would have known they sent you, how?

Lighten up, Francis.

You didn't post anything about location (I didn't see anything, anyway).

I hate the fact that the manufacturers pulled authorization from so many good shops. Their bean counters must have decided that shipping this stuff and waiting is an acceptable solution. Let's see what they do when their stuff breaks.

 

[highfigh]

There is one Onkyo authorized repair center in the Twin Cities metro. Alex Audio Video.


I never said you needed to build one. I just pointed out that a turntable preamp does not have to cost a King's ransom! In a receiver like your Onkyo I can be certain the cost of the TT front end will be in the one to two dollar range at manufacture. It is a simple circuit and not rocket science. It is possible Pyle might have messed it up, but that would be something even for that junk company. However if they had mucked it up, it would sound bad at ANY volume and NOT get worse as you increased the volume. If the problem you are having is related to play back volume, then the RIAA preamp is not the cause. Plain logic tells me that has to be so.

Most brands buy whatever is cheapest, including the big name brands. Whether they get what they ordered is a crap shoot when it comes form CCP-land.

Do you have any phono preamp designs for low output MC cartridges? I really like my Denon 103d. I have looked at the ART Phono preamp with a gain boost, but I haven't made a decision.

 

[Squishman]

And I would have known they sent you, how?

Lighten up, Francis.

You didn't post anything about location (I didn't see anything, anyway).

I hate the fact that the manufacturers pulled authorization from so many good shops. Their bean counters must have decided that shipping this stuff and waiting is an acceptable solution. Let's see what they do when their stuff breaks.

I was under the impression that I'd be shipping it somewhere. Onkyo support said to bring it to this shop. Nice that it is local (New Hope, if you know the Twin Cities). I had dealt with this shop in the past. They do good work. They did say if they can't fix it then they would ship it to Onkyo on my dime. That would suck. You usually have to pay a deposit to drop off a component. In this case, I did not have to pay jack to have them diagnose it and hopefully fix it.

 

[Squishman]

Lighten up, Francis.

Sorry man. This is just such a non-issue about the tt preamp. Not about the amp in for repair. That is an issue.

 

[Squishman]

TLS Guy, yeah it is Alex Audio and Video that has my amp as you probably guessed when I said New Hope. I hope I hear form them this week. They gave me no timetable.