Onkyo 805 vs Pioneer SC-07

[Seth=L]

Please don't nail a SC-07, you might find that hard to explain when you go to the emergency room.

I can't help it, it's so FINE!

 

[septim]

I'm thinking about getting an XPA-2 to drive my mains then use the Onkyo 805 to drive my center and 2 surrounds.

I do listen to a lot of music which I'm sure the XPA-2 would enhance greatly, but I also watch movies/game so I'm wondering would it sound weird with two channels driven by a separate?

 

[Lordoftherings]

Hey, wait a second...

I'm thinking about getting an XPA-2 to drive my mains then use the Onkyo 805 to drive my center and 2 surrounds.

I do listen to a lot of music which I'm sure the XPA-2 would enhance greatly, but I also watch movies/game so I'm wondering would it sound weird with two channels driven by a separate?

Are your two front main speakers bi-ampable?
Because if they are, you can make good use of those two extra amps from your 805.

Bob

 

[Seth=L]

Are your two front main speakers bi-ampable?
Because if they are, you can make good use of those two extra amps from your 805.

Bob

This could present a major problem. Negating the fact that the XPA-2 doesn't have a gain control it would be highly unlikely that the sensitivity of the amplifier inside the Onkyo and the Emotiva would be the same. On that given scenario it wouldn't be possible to match the levels of the Onkyo and Emotiva amplifiers. If the amplifier had gain controls it would still be very difficult and would require that you undergo a convoluted and time consuming process to match the levels anyway. The Emotiva would be sufficient to drive the speaker regardless, unless it's an ESL (in which case it still might be able to do that job, it's a big freakin amp). Bi-amping would be unrequired unless one was intending on using an active cross-over of a high pedigree, otherwise their would be no substantial change in SQ by simply powering the speaker with two amplifiers.

 

[Lordoftherings]

???

^ So, are you saying that in a 5.1-channel system setup, with the Onkyo TX-SR805 used to bi-amp your two front main speakers, and the other three speakers powered by the three remaining amplifiers in your 805; this is not a good idea?
And what about if your front main speakers already include a good active crossover?

Plus, you save yourself a good chunk of money ($800) by not needing to add an Emotiva XPA-2, and the additional complications as you so well described.

I'm not too sure here if you did understand my suggestion?

Bob

 

[Davemcc]

I'm not too sure here if you did understand my suggestion?

Bob

I'll go out on a limb here and say that there was some misunderstanding. I also thought your idea was to biamp using two amps from the Emo and two from the Onkyo. That would be disastrous.

I see from your clarification that you meant to biamp using the front and surround back speakers of the Onkyo unit itself. I missed that the first time around too. Moot point anyway. The Rockets are not bi-ampable.

 

[Lordoftherings]

You're going out on a limb is absolutely right.

You got it Dave, the Emotiva amp was not in the equation at all.
I thought that anyone would have catch this.

But in these days and age, might is well explain very good what you mean.

And like you're saying, the point is now moot.

So, what's up next? I'll say the 805 has plenty of power for his needs, without adding the also excellent Emotiva XPA-2.

Bob

 

[Davemcc]

My opinion? At this level, either will do the job just fine in terms of powering the speakers. The decision could easily rest on balance of price and features.

In my own last round of shopping, I was ready to buy the SC-07 but the salesman treated me as if I were some kind of panhandler and wouldn't even plug it in so I could see the display and menu system. I had it paired up with the Onkyo 905 rather than the 805, for whatever reason (it was a while ago). Between those two, it all depended on which gave me the best deal. Ultimately, the best deal for me was for the DTC-9.8.

In the present case, I might still suggest the SC07 for a couple of reasons. The ICE amps run cooler. USB and ethernet streaming. Two simultaneous HDMI outputs. Component video out for zone 2. On the other hand, the 805 has one quirk that bothers me, in that the 12v trigger is only usable for zone 2 components, IIRC. On the plus side for the 805, it is rated for a 4 ohm load which isn't necessarily relevant when using the Rockets.

I lean in favor of the SC07.

 

[Lordoftherings]

Both are good in their own way and setup.

I see your point, Dave.

But what scare me the most about the SC-07 is the review by Gene here at Audioholics and also the review by Daniel Kumin at Sound & Vision.

The performance into 4-ohm loads with several channels driven is a bit alarming from both reviewers. See lab tests from Sound & vision.
Also, I don't feel comfortable with the inners of the SC-07.
It might run cool, which is good, but from what I gathered from several people, is that it's missing that spaciousness, that air on top.
The 805 does run quite hot, but you can help this with a fan, and it does have more detailed highs than the Pioneer Elite.
And my speakers do need that extra jolt in the top region to make them sing in unisson from their very smooth sound.
Besides, Audyssey MultEQ XT is my first choice for room EQ.
And the TI PCM-1796a are more to my own personal taste than the WM-8740 Dacs. And do take note here, it is a personal preference.

So, from my perspective, the Onkyo TX-SR805 is my first choice. But I'm sure that the Pioneer Elite SC-07 in the right system will be the first choice.
Then, it is system dependent.

Bob

 

[-Kevin-]

I see your point, Dave.

But what scare me the most about the SC-07 is the review by Gene here at Audioholics and also the review by Daniel Kumin at Sound & Vision.

The performance into 4-ohm loads with several channels driven is a bit alarming from both reviewers. See lab tests from Sound & vision.
Also, I don't feel comfortable with the inners of the SC-07.
It might run cool, which is good, but from what I gathered from several people, is that it's missing that spaciousness, that air on top.
The 805 does run quite hot, but you can help this with a fan, and it does have more detailed highs than the Pioneer Elite.
And my speakers do need that extra jolt in the top region to make them sing in unisson from their very smooth sound.
Besides, Audyssey MultEQ XT is my first choice for room EQ.
And the TI PCM-1796a are more to my own personal taste than the WM-8740 Dacs. And do take note here, it is a personal preference.

So, from my perspective, the Onkyo TX-SR805 is my first choice. But I'm sure that the Pioneer Elite SC-07 in the right system will be the first choice.
Then, it is system dependent.

Bob

Well, I just pulled the trigger on an SC-05 last night. I got a pretty nice deal($700+free shipping) from an authorized dealer.
As far as your comment about having heard from several people that it was missing "spaciousness" and "that air on top" I read a large chunk of the owners SC-05/SC-07 thread on AVS. There were more than "several people" who had come from high end onkyos/denons and thought the SC-05/SC-07 the better performing unit(by a large margin) and had extremely smooth and detailed highs.
Anyhow, I guess I can decide for myself in a few days!

As far as choosing MCACC over Audyssey, that came down to my perception that MCACC just works. On paper Audyssey looks more sophisticated, for sure. However, when I look at the Audyssey thread on AVS it is far larger than the MCACC thread(although that could just be a function of the fact that more people use Audyssey!) but also seems to be filled with a far larger proportion of folks having troubles. Where as the MCACC thread is mostly just folks trying to tweak it using the optional advanced MCACC features.

Well--that is just my take and what went into my decision making!

 

[Lordoftherings]

Hi Kevin,

I totally agree with what you're saying. After all, I go only from reading just like you.
And I absolutely agree that at the current discount price for the SC-05 and SC-07 right now, it is an incredible good deal. What, at just over 55% off from the list price for the SC-05, and free shipping! Hard to beat that indeed.
And the SC-07 is just short of 60% discount from it's list price!

But about the Marantz SR6001 (for only $350, it's at 71% off), and the SR8001 (for the same price than your SC-05, which at $700, is at 65% off), and the SR7001 (for $500, it's at 64% off).

And the Onkyo TX-SR876 and TX-NR906? (Both respectively at 50 and 45% off.)
And the Onkyo TX-SR875 for $750, is at 56% off.

And these are all at Accessories 4 Less. Tough choices indeed. But I think that I like the Marantz SR8001 personally, and also the Onkyo TX-SR876. And these last two for well below $1,000! Wow! You guys are so well treated in the USA as compared to us in Canada, as far as prices go.
Anyway I paid more of course for my 805 and 876, but I will not mind adding that Marantz SR8001 to my collection for that great price of $700, even with the difference in exchange rate. The SR8001 is listed at $2,000, has a toroidal transformer, all jacks are gold plated, the front face is a beauty, the rear is also a work of art, and the sound, oh my, the Marantz sound, clear, smooth, detailed, voluptuous, powerful, audiophile deluxe... And for only 700 clams!

Bob

 

[Seth=L]

^ So, are you saying that in a 5.1-channel system setup, with the Onkyo TX-SR805 used to bi-amp your two front main speakers, and the other three speakers powered by the three remaining amplifiers in your 805; this is not a good idea?
And what about if your front main speakers already include a good active crossover?

Plus, you save yourself a good chunk of money ($800) by not needing to add an Emotiva XPA-2, and the additional complications as you so well described.

I'm not too sure here if you did understand my suggestion?

Bob

I did misunderstand you.

What speaker has a built in active cross-over?

 

[Lordoftherings]

I did misunderstand you.

What speaker has a built in active cross-over?

My Paradigm CC-300 center channel speaker.

And I'm sure if there is more people reading this thread, that you will find out a whole lot more. But I will leave that to other members aware of their speaker's abilities and capabilities.
Sorry Seth=L, just too tired right now to do some research. Perhaps tomorrow.

Regards,

Bob

 

[Sherardp]

The SC-07 is a beast in performance. I've had mine for some time now, should have waited with the price drops but oh well. I compared it to the Onk 805, Denon 3808 and found that I prefer the sound of the Elite. Very detailed, and upfront. The Onks and Denon were more laid back to me. It performs very well, the GUI is very easy to go though, setup was a breeze. All my sources are HDMI and it passes 1080p/24 without being touched on to my JVC RS10.

I had power amps in my setup before but the SC-07 can easily drive my Polk 7.1 setup (RTi12s, CSi5, FXi3s, and Rti4s and dual SVS PB12/plus 2) without the power amps. Since I had the amps, I decided to keep them in place, D-Sonic Magnum 1000S and Sunfire TGA 5200 and use the SC-07 as a pre. I don't think anyone can go wrong with the SC-07 or the 05. Happy Listening.

For those wondering, Velodyne SMS-1, SC-07, Sunfire, Monster 7000MKII, and D-Sonic 1000S, all gear is in rear of room, IR kit used on the SC-07 is Speakercraft.

 

[Lordoftherings]

It does look gorgeous. And it does have some unique features, like PQLS for audio (HDMI), and HDMI Jitter Reduction Plus from the HDMI connection. And great dynamics too.

* http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Products/HomeEntertainment/AV-Receivers/EliteReceivers/ci.SC-07.Kuro?tab=B

 

[septim]

Now I'm debating between an Onkyo 876 and Marantz SR8002. I do need the dual HDMI outs and 4 HDMI ins as I've been having issues with my switcher.

I am somewhat curious to try out the Marantz and experience the "Marantz sweetness". I've also been listening to a lot of music lately and have heard that the Marantz will sound better musically whereas they will be pretty level on the HT front.

Also the Marantz is 33 pounds vs the 50 pound Onkyos. The Marantz has a toroidal power supply which may make it more efficient though.

The heat and size are a non-concern I only care about sound quality.

 

[septim]

Just after posting this I find an e-mail saying my offer on the Marantz SR8002 was accepted I ended up paying $650 shipped for it which seemed too good to pass up. So I guess the point is moot.

I will be interested to see how the Marantz compares to my 805. I love the 805 and had it not been for my HDMI switch and splitter becoming HDCP nightmares I would not have upgraded.

 

[808htfan]

Just after posting this I find an e-mail saying my offer on the Marantz SR8002 was accepted I ended up paying $650 shipped for it which seemed too good to pass up.

The SR8002 for $650? Where was this?

Thanks

 

[Biggiesized]

Probably the 6ave Name Your Price sale they had again. I believe yesterday was the last day of the sale.

 

[Lordoftherings]

Wow!

Just after posting this I find an e-mail saying my offer on the Marantz SR8002 was accepted I ended up paying $650 shipped for it which seemed too good to pass up. So I guess the point is moot.

I will be interested to see how the Marantz compares to my 805. I love the 805 and had it not been for my HDMI switch and splitter becoming HDCP nightmares I would not have upgraded.

At that price, it's a no-brainer. I would have done the very same.
Please let us know your impressions between it and your 805, I am very interested to read your comments, same as you to compare them.

And, if I may, can I ask you where did you get such a deal? Would it be from 6th avenue perhaps?

The Marantz SR8002 is a true gem, toroidal transformer, nice looking front face and great rear with all jacks gold plated and well organized.

You are a very lucky person. Bravo!

Bob

Note: Are you 100% sure that it was the 8002, and not the 8001?