Onkyo 607 & Wharfedale Diamond 9.5

[b1gf00t]

Hi all,

I have spent lots of time on this forums reading threads about Loud Speakers and A/V Receivers as I decided to assemble a system that will blow my mind. BTW this is my first official thread so bare with me pleasE: P

I always ask myself what are the best speakers that are within my budget. Another dilemma is what would sound best on the speakers which AVR; so I started looking for the answer.

I would like to mention that am not an audiophile for say, however, I tend to consider myself as a music fanatic and a movie enthusiast, and I tend to enjoy both in LOUD volumes. Nevertheless loudness its not everything for me; clarity is another important feature which I look for.

I have compiled a CD with music from soundtracks and I have tested the Onkyo 607 & Wharfedale Diamond 9.5 as fronts and Diamond 9.1 as rears, along with the center and the 150 Watts sub woofer.

My first impression was wow what a nice system, it took most of the beating i have prepared in the CD until one song played which was "Hector's Death" (Troy), the tweeters started buzzing as if they are going to rapture. At first I didn't understand what was happening. Then I have tested the same song on the same receiver but with the Diamond 10.7 setup, and I had a different result where the tweeters buzzed but not like the 9.5(s).

Finally, the salesmen demonstrated to me Yamaha Soavo along with Denon 4308 AVR. NOW I can say WOW what a pair of speakers. They played anything even on highest levels with nothing but clear and crisp sound. Even while playing on the lowest levels you can still hear every single detail played. I loved the Soavo's, however budget is a big concern.

Your comments are welcomed, as I am confused on what was the reason for Diamond 9.5 to fail the test, and whether the setup was wrong or not, or if the receiver would have made a difference.

I would like to state that in my region I can't mix and match AVR's and speakers as I want. I would love to test Denon + Diamond.

I had my mind set on the Denon 1910, as I read it was a great receiver, but how would it compare to Onkyo 607.

Thanks.

 

[KEW]

I've never experiencied anything like what you decsribe. I have listened to the Diamond 9.1's which use the same tweeter and they were clear (it may be that I never pushed them as hard as you have). The Onkyo wasn't maxed out, was it? Even then, I'm not sure you would get "buzzing".
Wharfdale is a very mature speaker company and these are well established speakers. I have a hard time believing that there is something faulty in the design of the speakers to cause that.
No properly working modern amp should ever cause the type of effect you describe. If it is being pushed beyond its limits, it should simply shut off.

Did the sales guy say anything about the buzzing?
I guess it is the paranoid in me, but I don't understand why he didn't change receivers after the same type of effect occurred with the 10.7 setup. I'd consider the possibility that the Onkyo was defective and once it got warm (or hot) it started screwing up. The sales guy may use it as a launching pad to get customers to buy pricier gear, or he may not yet realize it is defective.

Again, this is pure speculation.
Good luck, but try the Diamonds with another amp.

Edit: the significance on sound of varying receivers is overblown. As long as the amp is not being taxed, they should not have much variation between them unless some type of EQ is engaged. Speakers are responsible for the lions share of differences you hear.

 

[b1gf00t]

Thank KEW

Kew,

As a matter of fact both the setups were on two different AMPs but both are Onkyo 607. As far as the volume is concerned, I was playing them on Vol level of 50. However, I was wondering if the AMP was passing bass to the tweeters which was causing this buzzing. They literally sounded like they are going to be raptured.

Although, the diamond 10.7 buzzed, but not as much as the Diamond 9.5

Actually, I wanted to try out Denon 1910 with the Diamonds, but unfortunately its possible in the stores here.

If anyone of you guys can help me out here in evaluating this situation.

Try playing TROY Hector's death on diamonds and report your findings. The buzzing is at the early punch of the song.

Thanks.

 

[Nugu]

I find it odd that the buzzing happens only on the single song, can you maybe elaborate on this audition disc? Original source quality vs new disc quality? Conversion to mp3 can cause all sorts of distortions especially if the source was lossy to start with. Generally it's recommended you take in a original CD you are familiar with and not self-made mixes.

I assume it was input via a digital source in all cases? (to make the receiver process it)


Edit: The crossovers are part of the speakers themselves and should not allow any bass frequencies through at all.

 

[b1gf00t]

FLAC Audio CD

Hi,

I do not know what is special about the Hector's death song, but that is the only song at the very beginning which makes the tweeters buzz the Fronts & Backs.

I forgot to mention that the salesman played the audio cd on the 5.1.

After he played them on 2.1 channels, the buzzing sort of reduced.

I am still thinking that there is some technical screw-up.

Nevertheless, that sound was a show stopper for me although the speakers + the amp fit my budget perfectly. They were offered for $ 1400

Looking forward to hear more thoughts.

Thanks.

 

[Nugu]

It could possibly be from under powering the speakers. The Onkyo 607 supports up to 110w @ 6 ohms and the Diamonds are 150w and 200w @ 6 ohm max. Which also may explain why the distortion sounded less pronounced when in the 2.1 mode. (less draw on the amp)

Bass takes more power (the song starts bass heavy), leading to the distortion.

I've spent a lot of time on this post today because it interested me (Onkyo 607 owner) and I think this is the most likely answer.

Edit: Ya I'm pretty certain what you're hearing is clipping due to under-powered speakers. I'm a novice though, so take what I say for what you will.

 

[MStrickland1988]

I'd have to say the receiver is clipping.

 

[KEW]

How did the room sizes compare between the three sets of speakers?

The efficiency of the 9.5 is 88dB vs. 90dB for the 10.7.
So assuming the same size of room and the same SPL, that would certainly explain why the 9.5 sounded worse.
The Onkyo rates power as:
90 W + 90 W (8 ohms, 20 Hz–20 kHz, 0.08%, 2 channels driven, FTC)
105 W + 105 W (8 ohms, 1 kHz, 0.7%, 2 channels driven, FTC)
110 W + 110 W (6 ohms, 1 kHz, 0.1%, 2 channels driven, FTC)

While not an absolute, the fact that it only adds 5 Watts when you go from 8 ohms to 4 ohms means it likely does not offer much headroom. Also these ratings are for 1kHz tone and only two speakers. It is very reasonable that the amp section was being taxed with the combination of Loud, Bass, and multi speakers (and room size is also a consideration).

The Soavo efficiency is rated at 89dB so it is right between the Diamonds you listened to.
The Denon 1910 rates power as:
90 W + 90 W (8 ohms, 20 Hz–20 kHz, 0.08%)
125 W + 125 W (6 ohms, 1 kHz, 0.1%)

Unfortunately, Denon does not give a spec for 8 ohms at 1kHz, but we see a 39% increase (from 90 to 125) for the Denon vs. 22% (from 90 to 110) for the Onkyo.
There are many other variables in these ratings such as how conservative the companies' marketing departments may be and the Denon was reported as putting out 90 Watts with all channels driven together (but Denon's own site did not make that clear). Nonetheless, the Denon seems to be a more rigorous amp despite the same basic 90 Watt rating.

With your propensity towards high volume, and unless your room at home is quite a bit smaller, I suspect you will ultimately want to upgrade to a separate two channel amp for your mains.

Note: this is my limited understanding of power ratings. Take it with a grain of salt! However, if I hosed it up, I'm sure it won't be long before someone with more knowledge educates me.

 

[b1gf00t]

Thanks for your answers.

I'll start with stating that the same room housed both speaker sets.

Unfortunately, for me I can never demonstrate Diamonds 9.5/10.7 with Denon 1910 as the delaers of both are competitors and you can never find the two brands in a setup.

I think I will start a new thred for Denon 190 + Diamonds 9.5.

I really thank you for explanation, it makes lots of sense.

Nugu's explanation makes me worried now, since Denon will have the same power approximately.

Let us say I set my mind on Diamond 9.5, is there any guide that explains the Amp specs required?

Regards,

 

[b1gf00t]

Just Noise, nothing audible.

It could possibly be from under powering the speakers. The Onkyo 607 supports up to 110w @ 6 ohms and the Diamonds are 150w and 200w @ 6 ohm max. Which also may explain why the distortion sounded less pronounced when in the 2.1 mode. (less draw on the amp)

Bass takes more power (the song starts bass heavy), leading to the distortion.

I've spent a lot of time on this post today because it interested me (Onkyo 607 owner) and I think this is the most likely answer.

Edit: Ya I'm pretty certain what you're hearing is clipping due to under-powered speakers. I'm a novice though, so take what I say for what you will.

Nugu,

Are you satisfied with the performance of the Only 607? I have tested this receiver today with the Wharfedales 10.7, and I could clearly notice the difference between Denon 2310 and the Wharfedales 10.7.

I played Dream Theater - Pull Me Under, the sound or the music seemed to be bumping against each other and nothing was audible, all I could hear is NOISE!

I would like to hear your feedback and give me and idea about your setup.

Thanks

 

[Nugu]

I love my Onkyo 607, theres a pretty long owners thread here I think. For 350$ shipped refurb unit that handles audio over HDMI the value is amazing. I just need to install a fan on the unit though

Problem is you're wanting the big power sucking monster towers, the 607 flat out won't be able to handle that. You'll need a receiver with pre-outs into dedicated amps. Like the Onkyo 707, it's 500$ from accessories4less.

Even though the Denon 2310 may sound better with it's slightly more powerful amp section I would still look into external amp'ing to avoid clipping. Even if you don't hear clipping you'd be amazed at the improvement in SQ you can get when enough wattage is available.


ATM I run my 607 with a Energy Take 5 classic pack (got it on sale 130$ from newegg) till I can spend the money on a more long term system. Sub is a TSC T300 I got for 227$ shipped. My listening room is tiny so I'm pretty happy heh.