Patrukas777

Patrukas777

Senior Audioholic
Now that my insurance claim is finally settled (lightening struck my residence- HT completely ruined), I decided to start buying my new HT equipment. Seems like luck is on my side today. I picked up a brand new Denon avr 4310ci from an authorized dealer for $1200.00, no tax, no shipping, and BRAND NEW! I also bought some Omni 30 WA (Black) wall mounts for my MTB-01's for a pretty good deal- $99.00 shipped!

I already bought my TV (Pan V10 58''), speakers (SVS M-series and PB13- Ultra), xbox 360 and Ps3....all that is left is to buy some new cables.

I hate TV speakers LOL...i cant wait to get my HT. Speakers should be here in the next week.

With that said, I'm one happy guy. Can't wait to get everything set up.
 
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adk highlander

adk highlander

Sith Lord
Congrats on getting your new gear. I'm sure after such a stressful event it is nice to get things going again. Buying new gear is fun.:D
 
Patrukas777

Patrukas777

Senior Audioholic
And you also invested in whole house surge supression? :)
LOL I wish...im sure someone on here could make me one. Do you know of any DIY versions haha. im going to use a standard surge protector...I had the Panamax 5300 PM and the lightening blew right through it and every component I owned. Very disappointed!

I spent almost $500 dollars on an expensive surge protector and it didn'teven work. Just to give everyone an idea of what happened, the electricity burned right through the Panamax...through the receiver, and blew up one of my surround speakers. The woofer exploded through the speaker grill. Everything connected to the panamax was dead. I now know to spend my money elsewhere.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
LOL I wish...im sure someone on here could make me one. Do you know of any DIY versions haha. im going to use a standard surge protector...I had the Panamax 5300 PM and the lightening blew right through it and every component I owned. Very disappointed!

I spent almost $500 dollars on an expensive surge protector and it didn'teven work. Just to give everyone an idea of what happened, the electricity burned right through the Panamax...through the receiver, and blew up one of my surround speakers. The woofer exploded through the speaker grill. Everything connected to the panamax was dead. I now know to spend my money elsewhere.
What do you mean "make you one"? Read the threads- lightning can be millions of volts and tens of thousands of Amperes- look into how much power that really is. There's almost nothing that will actually stop that- the best way is to use something that redirects it to ground, effectively. You don't want some schmuck making one in their basement or garage- you need a commercially available device. Look around- if you have a 100A service, Intermatic has one that can be bought online for about $70 + shipping. Your insurance might even pay for it and the installation. DO NOT buy the Richard Gray model unless you just want to piss away your money.

Lightning is one of the most powerful natural events we can experience. Only an earthquake is more powerful and neither can be stopped. Why do you think the Panamax failed, exactly? As far as I know, they don't claim to be able to stop lightning. At 30 Megavolts and 20 KA, it's roughly 60 GigaVolt-amps. All it needs to do in order for a lot of damage to occur is come close to power lines or a house- it doesn't need to be a direct strike.
 
Patrukas777

Patrukas777

Senior Audioholic
What do you mean "make you one"? Read the threads- lightning can be millions of volts and tens of thousands of Amperes- look into how much power that really is. There's almost nothing that will actually stop that- the best way is to use something that redirects it to ground, effectively. You don't want some schmuck making one in their basement or garage- you need a commercially available device. Look around- if you have a 100A service, Intermatic has one that can be bought online for about $70 + shipping. Your insurance might even pay for it and the installation. DO NOT buy the Richard Gray model unless you just want to piss away your money.

Lightning is one of the most powerful natural events we can experience. Only an earthquake is more powerful and neither can be stopped. Why do you think the Panamax failed, exactly? As far as I know, they don't claim to be able to stop lightning. At 30 Megavolts and 20 KA, it's roughly 60 GigaVolt-amps. All it needs to do in order for a lot of damage to occur is come close to power lines or a house- it doesn't need to be a direct strike.
I am totally joking about the "make me one" comment. Im supposed to have someone come by to see how well my home is grounded....and go from there :)

Panamax failed because when I was looking into purchasing a surge protector, I called them directly. I asked them specifically if the 5300 would protect my equipment from a lightening strike and I was told by a rep of Panamax that it would. He went on to say that the unit was also designed to sacrifice itself should lightening hit the house , and it would prevent stop the current from going to my equipment. He also mentioned it had a catostophic surge circuit that would help in that instance. So, either he lied to me or the product failed to do what it was supposed to do.
 
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G

gholt

Full Audioholic
The best way is to use something that redirects it to ground, effectively. You don't want some schmuck making one in their basement or garage- you need a commercially available device. Look around- if you have a 100A service, Intermatic has one that can be bought online for about $70 + shipping. Your insurance might even pay for it and the installation.
After reading this I think it may be worth to install something like this on our house. I think it may be well worth it to have a whole house surge protection.
 
j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
I am totally joking about the "make me one" comment. Im supposed to have someone come by to see how well my home is grounded....and go from there :)

Panamax failed because when I was looking into purchasing a surge protector, I called them directly. I asked them specifically if the 5300 would protect my equipment from a lightening strike and I was told by a rep of Panamax that it would. He went on to say that the unit was also designed to sacrifice itself should lightening hit the house , and it would prevent stop the current from going to my equipment. He also mentioned it had a catostophic surge circuit that would help in that instance. So, either he lied to me or the product failed to do what it was supposed to do.
The good news about that should be that Panamax will cover anything connected to it regardless of your insurance (not sure about lightning strikes actually). The Panamax has a rating and, as you've already found unfortunately, it won't protect against lightning. That is simply too big of a charge.
 
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J

jamie2112

Banned
Congratulations on getting new gear.Even though you had to go thru He#* to get them its on now .............
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
I am totally joking about the "make me one" comment. Im supposed to have someone come by to see how well my home is grounded....and go from there :)

Panamax failed because when I was looking into purchasing a surge protector, I called them directly. I asked them specifically if the 5300 would protect my equipment from a lightening strike and I was told by a rep of Panamax that it would. He went on to say that the unit was also designed to sacrifice itself should lightening hit the house , and it would prevent stop the current from going to my equipment. He also mentioned it had a catostophic surge circuit that would help in that instance. So, either he lied to me or the product failed to do what it was supposed to do.
The guy didn't sound like Dr Nick Riviera, did he?

The thing about voltage- it can jump from one point to another, which is how a 'Jacob's Ladder' works. Watch an old sci-fi movie- that's high voltage but the current isn't necessarily extremely high. Look at air as the dielectric in a capacitor- at a certain voltage, under any given circumstance, the voltage will move from one side to another. Distance, humidity, stored voltage, potential difference (known as Voltage) and amount of particulates all determine the voltage required for lightning to strike. Inside of the Panamax, the potential difference may not have changed much once the strike is occurring but the distance has and unless the voltage coming in is isolated from the rest of the innards, it's going to go to the point of least resistance WRT to ground.

The way I look at it- if my house takes a direct hit, I'll probably kiss all of my electronics goodbye if they're plugged in at the time. I unplug some things because they're vintage and worth enough to warrant it. The rest is fair game. Ideally, the power company's infrastructure was installed well enough to handle most of this but if it hits between my place and the transformer,, well,....
 
GlocksRock

GlocksRock

Audioholic Spartan
Definitely post pics when you get it all setup... I love my def techs, but would love to have those SVS towers. Buying new gear is always fun.
 
W

westom

Audioholic
I spent almost $500 dollars on an expensive surge protector and it didn'teven work. Just to give everyone an idea of what happened, the electricity burned right through the Panamax...through the receiver, and blew up one of my surround speakers.
The Panamax also did exactly what its numeric specs said it would do.

You have too choices. Buy a $3 power strip with some ten cent protector parts and expensive Panamax paint for $hundreds. Or spend $1 per protected appliance for the surge protection that protects even from direct lightning strikes. Latter is how it has been done routinely for over 100 years. Former is the scam promoted by an overwhelming majority of posters only educated by retail propaganda.

No protector is protection. Protection is (instead) about where energy dissipates. Scam protectors will not discuss any of this. The well proven technology - a 'whole house' protector - connects even direct lightning strikes harmlessly to earth.

Those who feel to know something will deny this. An average lightning strike is 20,000 amps. So the minimally sized 'whole house' protector is 50,000 amps. Direct lightning strikes must not even damage the protector. Still, a majority will ignore numbers, recommend ineffective plug-in protectors, and 'know' without first learning simple concepts. Either that protector connects short (ie 'less than 10 feet') to earth. Or it does nothing.

If the protector is too close to appliances, then it makes damage to those appliances easier. But again, you saw what Dr Martzloff's 1994 IEEE paper says can happen. And what we engineers saw long before that. The Panamax did appliance damage as electrical concepts said. That Panamax, with specs similar to all other plug-in protectors, did exactly what those specs claimed.

Install a 'whole house' protector with earthing upgraded to both meet and exceed post 1990 National Electrical code. Only then are you doing what has been done routinely for over 100 years - to have no damage even from direct lightning strikes.

Only more responsible companies provide effective protectors such as General Electric, Intermatic, Keison, Square D, Polyphaser, Siemens, or Leviton. A Cutler-Hammer solution sells for less than $50 in Lowes and Home Depot - because any 'electrically informed' homeowner can even install the well proven solution.

Bottom line: protection is always about where energy dissipates. If permitted inside the building, then energy will hunt for earth destructively via appliances - as you have seen. Protection means no surge can be anywhere inside the house. A protector is only as effective as its earth ground. Plug-in protector will not discuss earth to protect obscene profit margins.

Add 10 cent protector parts to a $3 power strip. That is virtually every plug-in protector. One sells in the grocery store for $7. Another with the same protector circuit sells for $150 in the big box TV store. You simply paid many $hundreds more for the same $7 protector. Your only solution is a 'whole house' protector. Or use no protectors so that protection inside the new electronics is not compromised by that adjacent protector. Yes, a plug-in protector will even earth surges destructively via adjacent appliances. But then you even witnessed that.
 
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Patrukas777

Patrukas777

Senior Audioholic
I will be having a whole house surge protector in the next week or two...and, I will also have a surge suppressor...nothing fancy and nothing expensive. I think both should be a good combo.
 
Patrukas777

Patrukas777

Senior Audioholic
The guy didn't sound like Dr Nick Riviera, did he?

The thing about voltage- it can jump from one point to another, which is how a 'Jacob's Ladder' works. Watch an old sci-fi movie- that's high voltage but the current isn't necessarily extremely high. Look at air as the dielectric in a capacitor- at a certain voltage, under any given circumstance, the voltage will move from one side to another. Distance, humidity, stored voltage, potential difference (known as Voltage) and amount of particulates all determine the voltage required for lightning to strike. Inside of the Panamax, the potential difference may not have changed much once the strike is occurring but the distance has and unless the voltage coming in is isolated from the rest of the innards, it's going to go to the point of least resistance WRT to ground.

The way I look at it- if my house takes a direct hit, I'll probably kiss all of my electronics goodbye if they're plugged in at the time. I unplug some things because they're vintage and worth enough to warrant it. The rest is fair game. Ideally, the power company's infrastructure was installed well enough to handle most of this but if it hits between my place and the transformer,, well,....
LOL...no, he didn't sound like Dr. Rivieral. I think I will be unplugging most of my equipment during lightening storms. I really dont want to take a chance.
 
Patrukas777

Patrukas777

Senior Audioholic
Definitely post pics when you get it all setup... I love my def techs, but would love to have those SVS towers. Buying new gear is always fun.
I will definitely be posting pics when I'm done:D
 
W

westom

Audioholic
I will be having a whole house surge protector in the next week or two...and, I will also have a surge suppressor...nothing fancy and nothing expensive.
You post 'implies' you missed the most important point. No protector provides protection. Each protector is only as effective as its earth ground.

For example, view the bare copper, quarter inch wire that earths the breaker box. Does that wire go up over the foundation and down to earth ground? Then it compromises protection. No protector is protection. Protection is only as effective as the only thing that provides protection.

That wire is too long, has too many sharp bends, and is not separated from other non-grounding wires. To make any protector effective, earthing should be through the foundation and down to single point ground. Other critical requirements are no splices. Not inside metallic conduit. And all other protectors (ie the 'whole house' protector installed for free by the telco) also must make that 'less than 10 foot' connection to the same earth ground.

Electricians understand earthing only for human safety. You need earthing also for transistor safety. Therefore earthing must exceed what most electricians are taught. Electricians understand what code addresses - human safety. That same earth ground must be enhanced to 'exceed' post 1990 code requirements.

How does the cable TV or satellite dish get protection? No protectors installed. Cable companies even recommend removing plug-in protectors. For superior protection, the cable connects (hardwired) to that same earth ground. No protector is required. A 12 AWG wire from the cable's ground block to earth ground (ie 'less than 10 feet', separated from other wires, etc) is necessary so that surge energy is not inside the building.

What is the only component always required in every protection 'system'? Single point earth ground. Each protection layer is only defined by the only item that provides protection - earth ground. Just another reason why plug-in protector do virtually nothing (or can even make surge damage easier).

Above defined the 'secondary' protection system. What so many electricians and most every satellite dish installer never learn. The homeowner should also inspect his 'primary' protection system. What defines each protection layer? That is what every homeowner should also inspect:
http://www.tvtower.com/fpl.html

For every protector, the bottom line: protection is always about where energy dissipates. A protector is only as effective as its earth ground - which is why so many homes have earthing upgraded to both meet and 'exceed' post 1990 National Electrical code.
 
Patrukas777

Patrukas777

Senior Audioholic
The good news about that should be that Panamax will cover anything connected to it regardless of your insurance (not sure about lightning strikes actually). The Panamax has a rating and, as you've already found unfortunately, it won't protect against lightning. That is simply too big of a charge.
What I've found through all of this is that Panamax will cover any piece of electronics that was connecte to the 5300, that was NOT covered by insurance. Panamax considers themselves as secondary to home/renters insurance.
 
just-some-guy

just-some-guy

Audioholic Field Marshall
What I've found through all of this is that Panamax will cover any piece of electronics that was connecte to the 5300, that was NOT covered by insurance. Panamax considers themselves as secondary to home/renters insurance.
what if, for whatever reason, the owner doesn't have any insurance ?
 
Patrukas777

Patrukas777

Senior Audioholic
what if, for whatever reason, the owner doesn't have any insurance ?
Then panamax will cover the property. Just read the warranty info carefully. The Panamax has to be connected to an outlet, not an extention chord, and the outlet has to be properly grounded. Panamax and many other companies will inspect everything. If they find something was not properly done, then the warranty is void. Its always good to read manufacturers warranties :)

As far as not having insurance...There's almost no excuse not to have renters insurance. A cheap renters insurance plan cost about 120-150 dollars a YEAR, and protect you up to $20k. So, for those of you who do not have renters....GET IT!!! ITS CHEAP!!
 

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