On Trump

[GO-NAD!]

Here Are the Attack Plans That Trump’s Advisers Shared on Signal

The administration has downplayed the importance of the text messages inadvertently sent to The Atlantic’s editor in chief.

www.theatlantic.com

while the Trump wingnuts say this isn't' classified, it sure as hell shouldn't be public info !

They made it unclassified retroactively. Ta-da! Presto!

Such a discussion would be Top Secret, by default. This just a desperate effort to save face. Ain't gonna work. They'd be better off if they started railing about Hillary's emails and Hunter's laptop...again.

 

[GO-NAD!]

Depends- do you have rogue neighbors who shoot at you and highjack your mower? If you're not able to do it for yourself, would you refuse to pay, or just expect it? If the latter, I would do it as a favor, although I might need a couple of buck for gas and tollways, to drive there.

The difference isn't small- mowing a lawn is rarely a life-threatening task. It also doesn't involve large fuel leaks and other environmental damage.

I have mowed my neighbours' lawn and shovelled snow from their driveway. They're a bit older than me and he has a bad hip. I don't ask if they want me to, I just do it. What I don't do, is shake them down afterwards.

 

[highfigh]

Of course Europe benefits from safe passage and no one claims otherwise, but so does USA.

OK, let's take the US out of this- who would step up and take out the Houthis if the US doesn't do anything? Most of the EU hasn't seemed willing to get their hands dirty. Biden offered a plan for a coalition last year, but France & other EU countries didn't want to be under US command. Other countries have offered support and Asipedes has conducted separate strikes, but are they enough?

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/what-are-us-europe-doing-counter-houthi-strikes-red-sea-2025-03-25/

When Hamas, Hezbollah and the Houthis attack, retalliation occurs an they claim that they'll retaliate, someone needs to decide that they're insane. It's similar to sucker-punching someone, then being mad that they hit back.

Hamas, Hezbollah and the Houthis need to be removed.

Are you actually complaining that the US might clean up the neighborhood and benefit Europe? If another country did the same and demanded payment, would the rest refuse that?

 

[highfigh]

Of course not, but it would be very unfortunate if your house spontaneously caught fire and burned down.

If the house spontaneously catches fire, is the one mowing the lawn responsible, by definition?

 

[highfigh]

I have mowed my neighbours' lawn and shovelled snow from their driveway. They're a bit older than me and he has a bad hip. I don't ask if they want me to, I just do it. What I don't do, is shake them down afterwards.

What would you do if the neighbors refused or didn't bother to mow their lawn?

I have done the same for neighbors, since I was a kid. Now, we help each other- snow, mowing, some repairs, doesn't matter. If someone helps with mine, I ask if they want something for it.

I don't understand why you're comparing such a minor act with something that affects most of the world.

 

[GO-NAD!]

What would you do if the neighbors refused or didn't bother to mow their lawn?

I have done the same for neighbors, since I was a kid. Now, we help each other- snow, mowing, some repairs, doesn't matter. If someone helps with mine, I ask if they want something for it.

I have another neighbour who is quite capable of mowing their lawn, yet does so very rarely. I don't mow theirs, because if it isn't a priority for them, it certainly isn't a priority for me.

I don't understand why you're comparing such a minor act with something that affects most of the world.

I'm comparing it, because even if European nations had the resources to stage such an attack, one can't assume that it's an action they would take.

The Nova Scotia provincial government is proposing something of a similar nature.
Houston government softens language in transportation bill | CBC News

Italics are mine:

The Houston government has softened language in a bill that would give it sweeping new powers over transit and transportation infrastructure throughout the province, but the advocacy group for Nova Scotia municipalities remains concerned it still isn't enough.

The original language in the proposed changes to the Joint Regional Transportation Agency Act suggested the province could unilaterally undertake projects to build or remove infrastructure, or "do anything necessary" to ensure the smooth movement of people and goods.

According to Bill 24, the provincial government could simply pass on the cost of the work to a municipality once the project was completed.

They've done a climbdown after the inevitable backlash, although the amended bill still allows the Provincial government to run roughshod over municipalities. This isn't the first time they got their authoritarian freak on and if they realllly want to get punted out off office come next election, they should just keep this stuff up.

 

[highfigh]

I have another neighbour who is quite capable of mowing their lawn, yet does so very rarely. I don't mow theirs, because if it isn't a priority for them, it certainly isn't a priority for me.

I'm comparing it, because even if European nations had the resources to stage such an attack, one can't assume that it's an action they would take.

The Nova Scotia provincial government is proposing something of a similar nature.
Houston government softens language in transportation bill | CBC News

Italics are mine:


They've done a climbdown after the inevitable backlash, although the amended bill still allows the Provincial government to run roughshod over municipalities. This isn't the first time they got their authoritarian freak on and if they realllly want to get punted out off office come next election, they should just keep this stuff up.

What would you do if the unwilling neighbor's yard was home to a variety of vermin that caused damage to the whole area and used that yard for their nests & dens, attacking people as they walked by?

This isn't a case of a kid being beaten up for their lunch money, it's a major shipping channel for the whole World. The attacks need to stop but th ise demand is in Trump's style- he wants to be paid and his deals & lawsuits show this pattern. Best case, the Houthis stop regardless of payment, or no payment. Worst case, the violence spreads further.

Wow! Bill 24 really sucks! Here, it's called 'eminent domain' and it involves acquisition of private property for public use. Sometimes, it's a good thing and sometimes, it's not. A larger government body doing this unilaterally and making the locality pay doesn't receive approval often and approval in some cases and in others, there's no choice.

 

[GO-NAD!]

What would you do if the unwilling neighbor's yard was home to a variety of vermin that caused damage to the whole area and used that yard for their nests & dens, attacking people as they walked by?

This isn't a case of a kid being beaten up for their lunch money, it's a major shipping channel for the whole World. The attacks need to stop but th ise demand is in Trump's style- he wants to be paid and his deals & lawsuits show this pattern. Best case, the Houthis stop regardless of payment, or no payment. Worst case, the violence spreads further.

What would I do? Good question. I'm not sure.

What I'm pretty sure I wouldn't do, is - without consulting anyone else - decide the best course of action is to burn down that yard, then demand that the other neighbours reimburse me for the gasoline I used to set the fire.

Wow! Bill 24 really sucks! Here, it's called 'eminent domain' and it involves acquisition of private property for public use. Sometimes, it's a good thing and sometimes, it's not. A larger government body doing this unilaterally and making the locality pay doesn't receive approval often and approval in some cases and in others, there's no choice.

Yes, Bill 24 does suck. I won't be surprised if it dies a quiet death.

 

[highfigh]

What would I do? Good question. I'm not sure.

What I'm pretty sure I wouldn't do, is - without consulting anyone else - decide the best course of action is to burn down that yard, then demand that the other neighbours reimburse me for the gasoline I used to set the fire.

Yes, Bill 24 does suck. I won't be surprised if it dies a quiet death.

I'm not saying anyone has to burn down the yard, but Yemen isn't doing anything to stop the Houthis, who are aligned with Iran, and we all know how well Iran plays with others. I'd l ike to know why that region is home to so many proxy wars.......never mind- the Houthis, fighting an Egypt-led coalition, are Suni, where Egypt is majority Sunni, at the expense of huimanitarian aid to the population.

Typical.

What about the California-compliant gas can?

 

[GO-NAD!]

I'm not saying anyone has to burn down the yard, but Yemen isn't doing anything to stop the Houthis, who are aligned with Iran, and we all know how well Iran plays with others. I'd l ike to know why that region is home to so many proxy wars.......never mind- the Houthis, fighting an Egypt-led coalition, are Suni, where Egypt is majority Sunni, at the expense of huimanitarian aid to the population.

Typical.

What about the California-compliant gas can?

Well, Yemen is a failed state, so I'm not sure what anyone can do there. It's just a proxy being batted around by Iran and Saudi Arabia.

 

[Dude#1279435]

Drudge having lots of fun LOL.

DEM: WAS HEGSETH DRUNK?
REP. SHOUTING MATCH WITH CIA DIRECTOR

 

[lovinthehd]

Oh well, when you elect a clown, along comes the circus. As my Dad used to say, with respect to the Trump admin, 'it's amateur night at the casino' .............

Mostly it's the entire republican thing being a clown show, they just ride his coattails for convenience.

 

[Mr._Clark]

They made it unclassified retroactively. Ta-da! Presto!

Such a discussion would be Top Secret, by default. This just a desperate effort to save face. Ain't gonna work. They'd be better off if they started railing about Hillary's emails and Hunter's laptop...again.

The "classification" issue and the "war plans" semantics are largely a red herring.

Here's the primary law at issue:

>>>18 U.S. Code § 793 - Gathering, transmitting or losing defense information . . .

(f) Whoever, being entrusted with or having lawful possession or control of any document, writing, code book, signal book, sketch, photograph, photographic negative, blueprint, plan, map, model, instrument, appliance, note, or information, relating to the national defense, (1) through gross negligence permits the same to be removed from its proper place of custody or delivered to anyone in violation of his trust, or to be lost, stolen, abstracted, or destroyed . . . Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both.<<<

18 U.S. Code § 793 - Gathering, transmitting or losing defense information

www.law.cornell.edu

Here are the pertinent questions under the law:

First question: Does the timing of the F-18 and drone strikes constitute "information . . . relating to the national defense"?

Second question: Did any of the people in the Signal chat group "through gross negligence" permit it to be removed or delivered to anyone in violation of his trust?

Hillary Clinton avoided criminal charges by the skin of her teeth because Comey determined that gross negligence actually requires intent:

>>>All the cases prosecuted involved some combination of clearly intentional and willful mishandling of classified information, or vast quantities of materials exposed in such a way as to support an inference of intentional misconduct, or indications of disloyalty to the United States… We do not see those things here.<<<

Why Intent, Not Gross Negligence, is the Standard in Clinton Case

On July 5, FBI Director James Comey announced that he was not going to recommend the filing of criminal charges against Hillary Clinton over her use of a

warontherocks.com

Hegseth can make a pretty strong argument that he cannot be charged with a crime if the Clinton intent standard is applied to the facts of Signalgate situation.

On the other hand, if the FBI were to apply a "complete dumb*ass" standard instead of intent, he's toast (that's a joke)(not a funny joke, just a joke)

 

[mtrycrafts]

Mostly it's the entire republican thing being a clown show, they just ride his coattails for convenience.

And fear.

 

[GO-NAD!]

The "classification" issue and the "war plans" semantics are largely a red herring.

Here's the primary law at issue:

>>>18 U.S. Code § 793 - Gathering, transmitting or losing defense information . . .

(f) Whoever, being entrusted with or having lawful possession or control of any document, writing, code book, signal book, sketch, photograph, photographic negative, blueprint, plan, map, model, instrument, appliance, note, or information, relating to the national defense, (1) through gross negligence permits the same to be removed from its proper place of custody or delivered to anyone in violation of his trust, or to be lost, stolen, abstracted, or destroyed . . . Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both.<<<

18 U.S. Code § 793 - Gathering, transmitting or losing defense information

www.law.cornell.edu

Here are the pertinent questions under the law:

First question: Does the timing of the F-18 and drone strikes constitute "information . . . relating to the national defense"?

Second question: Did any of the people in the Signal chat group "through gross negligence" permit it to be removed or delivered to anyone in violation of his trust?

Hillary Clinton avoided criminal charges by the skin of her teeth because Comey determined that gross negligence actually requires intent:

>>>All the cases prosecuted involved some combination of clearly intentional and willful mishandling of classified information, or vast quantities of materials exposed in such a way as to support an inference of intentional misconduct, or indications of disloyalty to the United States… We do not see those things here.<<<

Why Intent, Not Gross Negligence, is the Standard in Clinton Case

On July 5, FBI Director James Comey announced that he was not going to recommend the filing of criminal charges against Hillary Clinton over her use of a

warontherocks.com

Hegseth can make a pretty strong argument that he cannot be charged with a crime if the Clinton intent standard is applied to the facts of Signalgate situation.

On the other hand, if the FBI were to apply a "complete dumb*ass" standard instead of intent, he's toast (that's a joke)(not a funny joke, just a joke)

Oh, I don't expect any legal consequences for any of the administration officials involved in the group chat. They will just continue deflecting and denying until the next - inevitable - example of ineptitude overtakes it.

Speaking as a veteran, this is one of the most irksome aspects of this incident:
Trump officials downplay the Signal leak. Some military members see a double standard : NPR

When Cold War tensions ramped up during the 1980's, our submarines patrolled the North West Atlantic, hunting for Soviet ballistic missile submarines. Upon return to Halifax after one particular patrol, our captain mustered the crew before allowing anyone to go ashore. During his speech to us, he stated, "If any of the events of this patrol become public knowledge and I find out the source, I will personally chop his balls off before handing him over to the MP's".

If some lower-rank military member had released similar details of a similar operation in a similar manner, I have no doubt that Hegseth would want him shot.

 

[highfigh]

Well, Yemen is a failed state, so I'm not sure what anyone can do there. It's just a proxy being batted around by Iran and Saudi Arabia.

Yemen hasn't had a solid central government, just a bunch of bickering groups who force their will on others, often at the end of a barrel. Should we just give up? It's clearly not working.

Chaotic Yemen: The Deconstruction of a Failed State and Regional Interferences | Al Jazeera Centre for Studies

Origins of the New Republic

studies.aljazeera.net

For all of the talk about freedom and helping people everywhere, I would like to poke the whole world in the eye with the fact that so many countries are ranked as 'Not Free'- I searched for 'How many countries are dictatorships?' and found a link from World Population Review showing that the number is large and it seems that NOBODY is doing anything about it.

Dictatorship Countries 2025

worldpopulationreview.com

 

[Trell]

For all of the talk about freedom and helping people everywhere, I would like to poke the whole world in the eye with the fact that so many countries are ranked as 'Not Free'- I searched for 'How many countries are dictatorships?' and found a link from World Population Review showing that the number is large and it seems that NOBODY is doing anything about it.

Dictatorship Countries 2025

worldpopulationreview.com

"NOBODY" is doing anything about it? What do you think the Western response to the Russian full-scale invasion of Ukraine is about, as an example?

Trump is certainly doing something about it, and not for the better.

 

[GO-NAD!]

Yemen hasn't had a solid central government, just a bunch of bickering groups who force their will on others, often at the end of a barrel. Should we just give up? It's clearly not working.

Chaotic Yemen: The Deconstruction of a Failed State and Regional Interferences | Al Jazeera Centre for Studies

Origins of the New Republic

studies.aljazeera.net

Give up? Give up what? Air strikes? Bombing them in an effort to dissuade them from attacking shipping (my prediction - futile) has nothing to do with governance. They won't be blasted into discovering the joys of democracy, peace and the rule of law.

For all of the talk about freedom and helping people everywhere, I would like to poke the whole world in the eye with the fact that so many countries are ranked as 'Not Free'- I searched for 'How many countries are dictatorships?' and found a link from World Population Review showing that the number is large and it seems that NOBODY is doing anything about it.

Dictatorship Countries 2025

worldpopulationreview.com

I'm not sure what you think can done about it. How many thousands of lives and billions of dollars did the invasion, destruction and reconstruction of Iraq cost? It's present status as a democracy is just a touch better than when Saddam was in power. The ability of outside countries to foster democracy can be quite limited, especially where there is little history of it.

Right now, I would suggest looking closer to home. The pot that the American democratic frog swims in is simmering.
Dangerous cracks in US democracy pillars Dangerous Cracks in U.S. Democracy Pillars
U.S. could lose democracy status, says global watchdog | CBC News

 

[highfigh]

Give up? Give up what? Air strikes? Bombing them in an effort to dissuade them from attacking shipping (my prediction - futile) has nothing to do with governance. They won't be blasted into discovering the joys of democracy, peace and the rule of law.

I'm not sure what you think can done about it. How many thousands of lives and billions of dollars did the invasion, destruction and reconstruction of Iraq cost? It's present status as a democracy is just a touch better than when Saddam was in power. The ability of outside countries to foster democracy can be quite limited, especially where there is little history of it.

Right now, I would suggest looking closer to home. The pot that the American democratic frog swims in is simmering.
Dangerous cracks in US democracy pillars Dangerous Cracks in U.S. Democracy Pillars
U.S. could lose democracy status, says global watchdog | CBC News

You're not seeing the whole picture- one link showed that 22 African countries have dictators. Nobody has tried to change that, aside from others who want to be the new dictators.

If atrocities are committed, the World Court has been used, although I don't remember the last time anything substantial happened. I guess the people in those countries would rather escape than improve their conditions- look at the world's migrants and their origins, then consider their home country's governments.

What a disaster, here and abroad.

 

[GO-NAD!]

You're not seeing the whole picture- one link showed that 22 African countries have dictators. Nobody has tried to change that, aside from others who want to be the new dictators.

If atrocities are committed, the World Court has been used, although I don't remember the last time anything substantial happened. I guess the people in those countries would rather escape than improve their conditions- look at the world's migrants and their origins, then consider their home country's governments.

What a disaster, here and abroad.

Oh, I'm quite aware of the picture - it ain't pretty. Who is it that you think should do something about it - "the people"? It's not like the Nike ad, "Just Do It". Uprisings against totalitarian governments rarely have positive outcomes. Americans, especially, should take heed. Saving democracy is not going to be easy - but, it'll be easier than trying to get it back when it's gone.

I'm not predicting America becoming China, or even Russia. But, Hungary isn't out of the question.