Old Receiver Question

[Viper]

Hey everyone, I am just getting back in the Home Theater hobby and I have a couple questions regarding my old Kenwood receiver. First of all my equipment is all entry level so no laughing. Here is the list:

Pannasonic 50" 1080p Plasma
Kenwood VR-405 Receiver
Sony SS-F5000 Mains
Polk C10 Center
Sony SS-B1000 Surrounds
Sony SA-W3000 12" Sub

Like I said, entry level. I know there has been a lot of talk about weather or not to set the mains to large if you have full range speakers. Well, I do have mine set to large and they put out a decent amount of bass. With my receiver, how would I know or figure out at what point the low frequencies are being sent to the sub? The Sony towers range is supposed to be 45Hz to 50kHz. I was thinking about upgrading my receiver or sub and was looking to spend $400 or less. With my current setup, what would give me the most bang for my buck? Keep in mind the receiver doesn't even have dts, only dolby digital. I know speakers make the biggest impact on sound quality but with a receiver this old would a new one improve the sound quality? I also know that a decent sub can really make a 5.1 system come alive and handle all the bass with the speakers set to small.

Regards,

Viper

 

[Adam]

Welcome to the forum!

To find out the crossover frequency that your receiver is using for the subwoofer, I'd check the owner's manual first and then search the internet a bit. You could also use a set of test tones at different frequencies to help figure that out.

Do you have the owner's manual? My pooch is anxious to go for her walk, but I'll be back in a little bit. If you haven't found anything, I'll see what I can find for you.

 

[Adam]

I looked through the owner's manual and didn't see any mention of the crossover frequency. It might be in there, but I didn't see it.

 

[bandphan]

IIRC its either 90 or 100 hz for all the kenwood models then, similar to yamas

 

[Adam]

IIRC its either 90 or 100 hz for all the kenwood models then, similar to yamas

I was also thinking that it would be in that range when I first read the question. Doesn't mean that we're right, but at least the OP has two similar opinions.

 

[lsiberian]

Hey everyone, I am just getting back in the Home Theater hobby and I have a couple questions regarding my old Kenwood receiver. First of all my equipment is all entry level so no laughing. Here is the list:

Pannasonic 50" 1080p Plasma
Kenwood VR-405 Receiver
Sony SS-F5000 Mains
Polk C10 Center
Sony SS-B1000 Surrounds
Sony SA-W3000 12" Sub

Like I said, entry level. I know there has been a lot of talk about weather or not to set the mains to large if you have full range speakers. Well, I do have mine set to large and they put out a decent amount of bass. With my receiver, how would I know or figure out at what point the low frequencies are being sent to the sub? The Sony towers range is supposed to be 45Hz to 50kHz. I was thinking about upgrading my receiver or sub and was looking to spend $400 or less. With my current setup, what would give me the most bang for my buck? Keep in mind the receiver doesn't even have dts, only dolby digital. I know speakers make the biggest impact on sound quality but with a receiver this old would a new one improve the sound quality? I also know that a decent sub can really make a 5.1 system come alive and handle all the bass with the speakers set to small.

Regards,

Viper

Large and Small don't normally matter in many receiver for home theater. Usually it effects stereo music. This isn't always the case, but generally if you want the sub to play during music you would set the speakers to small.

Also just because your speaker has the range to 40hz doesn't make it wise to run it that low. In reality it's at that frequency that the most damage is done to your woofer. This is because the excursion becomes too much for many drivers. And while it may not blow your driver it will cause distortion. This is why TLS Guy suggests a crossover set at twice the F3(bottom rated frequency of a speaker.) Normally this will give you the best sound and keep your speaker lasting longer.

Now it appears your sub has no adjustable crossover and lacks many of the nicer new features. I don't know if you want to upgrade anytime soon, but if you are in the budget a Marantz 4002 could be a nice step up. Its a budget receiver with a long of bang. At accessories4less they go for around 260.

Now since your receiver lacks an adjustable crossover. I must ask if your sub has one.

If so it might be good to run your Left Right channel through the sub. We'll be glad to help you with this if that's the case. A 12" driver is usually sufficient for most folks so I wouldn't under rate what you have. I know it's not my system nor would it meet my goals, but Audio is my hobby. Just like a cook doesn't like lesser ingredients an audiophile doesn't like lesser equipment.

However my Father-in law got some nice Sony speaker for around 60 that sounded pretty good for the price. I must admit sometimes I wonder if we do go a little nuts on this hobby.

 

[Adam]

Large and Small don't normally matter in many receiver for home theater.

I'd appreciate it if you'd explain more about why you think that.

Thanks.

 

[Viper]

Thanks Guys

Thank you for your replies! I also did not see anything in the manual regarding crossover frequency. So, if i run my mains through my sub, witch does have a crossover, do i set them to small in the receiver? What do i set my sub crossover at? What will connecting them this way accomplish?

Thanks,

Viper

 

[Adam]

Thank you for your replies! I also did not see anything in the manual regarding crossover frequency. So, if i run my mains through my sub, witch does have a crossover, do i set them to small in the receiver? What do i set my sub crossover at? What will connecting them this way accomplish?

If you were to run your mains through your sub, you'd set the mains as "Large" in the receiver and set the sub to "No" (or the equivalent...I don't have the manual in front of me). The reason is that, as far as the receiver is concerned, you aren't hooking up a sub. You are sending the signals for the front two speakers to the sub, and the sub is then doing the bass management.

I'd start with a crossover around 80 Hz (because that's the THX recommendation, and I'm simple ) and then experiment with it to see what you like the best. You can buy CDs with test tone frequencies (or simply download those frequencies and burn them to a CD) and measure the response of your system over frequency using an SPL meter. Doing that, you could adjust the crossover on the sub to try and get the flattest response in your room. If you're interested in doing that, just let us know and we'll give some more details.

 

[Viper]

ok, lets say i get that merantz you mentioned, would i not have to run the mains through my sub then? Is there an adjustable crossover in that unit?

 

[Adam]

There is indeed a user-selectable crossover in the Marantz 4002 (with the options being 80Hz, 100Hz, 120Hz, 150Hz, and 180Hz). That option is available in many receivers these days, with the actual frequencies that are available to choose being dependent on the receiver.

EDIT: You can download the user manual for that Marantz here and check out all of the options.

 

[tom67]

The obvious

we suggested everything here but the obvious.....first try setting the mains to small and see what you think.....if it is not an improvement, try adjusting the sub levels up and down and listen again...

 

[gixxerific]

I'm not the expert here, but if it were me I would set my mains to small and let the sub pick up the rest. The idea being that your speakers and sub will be playing what they are designed to do or at least do better. Sure your mains may hit low but the sub can hit low and do it a whole lot better. Leaving your mains to breathlessly handle the mid bass-midrange. I have some amps that will filter out subsonic frequencies below 20Hz those notes are hard to play and can't really be heard, though they can be felt. So why waste energy producing therm when it can used elsewhere in a more meaningful way.

MHO

Of course being the audioholic I am I would test out both ways and at multiple X-Over settings, and never really be satisfied. But tweaking is part of the fun.

Oh and I might go the new receiver route in your case, one with adjustable X-Over and an EQ.

Hope this helps
Dono

 

[AVRat]

Personally, I think you'll get the best benefit with a new receiver just due to all the upgraded audio processing capabilities. I'm sure we can find one that will meet your requirements.

What are your source components? Will you be purchasing a Blu-Ray player?

 

[Viper]

I have a nice upconverting sony dvd player. I know after i say this I will be thought of as crazy but i really don't like the look of blu ray. It does not haver that "movie" look to it anymore. It looks live to me and i don't like it. So a blu ray will be in my future when dvd gets canned all together. I think I am going to order the Marantz 4002.