Old gramps with a 2-channel system, looking for advice...

[Jerkface]

It's my cat-like reflexes.

Specifically, what model of amp- the Horn Mono?

Yep. After looking at everything in what I perceived to be my price range, the Horn Monos felt like the best choice, even though I had to stretch the budget for them.

 

[Jerkface]

Consider also that Klipsch overstates sensitivity, typically 4-5 dB or so.....

Well, like I said, if I need to put a hotter pre into the chain to drive them, then that's an option, for sure.

 

[lovinthehd]

Well, like I said, if I need to put a hotter pre into the chain to drive them, then that's an option, for sure.

Or use a more reasonable amp

 

[highfigh]

Yep. After looking at everything in what I perceived to be my price range, the Horn Monos felt like the best choice, even though I had to stretch the budget for them.

And yours are the model that needs 9V input? That's so far from a typical input level, it almost seems like they designed it to require the line stage, which really shouldn't be necessary. Plenty of amplifiers are sensitive and still noise-free, although I don't see S/N ratio for any of their models and I prefer more detailed specs. The 12DW7 is like a 12AX7 siamesed with a 12AU7, which isn't typical, but it isn't a rare instance. I have had several non-HiFi guitar amps that had plenty of gain without much noise and the one amp that is HiFi uses 5751, which is a low noise version of a 12AX7 and it doesn't need to be blasted with input voltage.

I would like to see their explanation for the reason they decided to make it so insensitive.

 

[Jerkface]

Or use a more reasonable amp

Well, swapping out amps is a non-option right now. I had to stretch to be able to do these monos - I wanted to get in under a grand for the amp section.

 

[Jerkface]

And yours are the model that needs 9V input? That's so far from a typical input level, it almost seems like they designed it to require the line stage, which really shouldn't be necessary. Plenty of amplifiers are sensitive and still noise-free, although I don't see S/N ratio for any of their models and I prefer more detailed specs. The 12DW7 is like a 12AX7 siamesed with a 12AU7, which isn't typical, but it isn't a rare instance. I have had several non-HiFi guitar amps that had plenty of gain without much noise and the one amp that is HiFi uses 5751, which is a low noise version of a 12AX7 and it doesn't need to be blasted with input voltage.

I would like to see their explanation for the reason they decided to make it so insensitive.

Purportedly, the goal was to make sure it was as clean as possible at low wattage output, since most of the listening getting done with high-sensitivity horns would be in the sub-1w range.

 

[highfigh]

Purportedly, the goal was to make sure it was as clean as possible at low wattage output, since most of the listening getting done with high-sensitivity horns would be in the sub-1w range.

That's absurd. At levels <1Watt, noise is less audible anyway and using 9V input sensitivity makes preamp/front end noise audibility almost unavoidable at higher levels. If the front end is at a low setting, the noise is buried, although extremely high gain isn't being used. They could have found a better middle ground between this amp and the average preamp's output- ALL of their other models are in the 1v to 1.25V range. While it's true that high output voltage coupled to lowered senstivity can result in lower noise than the reverse, this is odd, IMO. Even in car audio, most head units max out around 4V output and the amplifiers in big systems are outputting hundreds of Watts.

I think more people should look into their average listening level- it's probably a lot less power than they think. It's also amazing to many that so much detail can be heard at a low SPL.

 

[Jerkface]

They could have found a better middle ground between this amp and the average preamp's output- ALL of their other models are in the 1v to 1.25V range. While it's true that high output voltage coupled to lowered senstivity can result in lower noise than the reverse, this is odd, IMO. Even in car audio, most head units max out around 4V output and the amplifiers in big systems are outputting hundreds of Watts.

Interestingly, I've been sniffing around at preamps since this issue was raised, and I discovered that the old Jolida preamps maxed out at 7v output. Of course, good luck finding one, but maybe there are some equivalents out there?

 

[Jerkface]

Update on this:

I have on order a Xiangsheng 728a, which is an all-tube preamp with both high (15v) and low (2v) outputs. Nice thing here is, if we (yes, my wife was the one to first bring up the possibility of going 2.1 channel) decide we need a sub, I'll have outs for it.

 

[Jerkface]

I would like to see their explanation for the reason they decided to make it so insensitive.

It just so happens, Mike gave me one when I asked him via e-mail, and it lines up with what I suspected:

I told him they do really sound great with the Belles, super clean, and pretty much too damn loud at a full 2v (100% volume) from the Denon. Still can't wait to get the Xiang Sheng in here to see what they're really capable of at 25w. But you won't catch me in the same room as the speakers when I perform that test. I like having fully functional eardrums, thank you.