Okay, So Let Me Put it This Way...

[HorizonRidge]

I have, for now, attempted to stabilize the Polk R20 bookshelves running in my 2-channel system atop the rickety, creaky and ready-to-buckle-like-the-POS'es-they-are Sanus stands, while I continue to search for an affordable replacement pair of floorstanding (no bookshelves) towers.

From my previous thread, as you will most likely recall, the criteria continues to lean towards something that falls into the "entry-to-audiophile" range, as elusive or vague as this may seem -- essentially, I'd like to see if I can stray away, just a bit, from the garden-variety Polks, JBLs, Infinitys, Klipschs etc. of the world and get my feet wet in a more audiophile-oriented brand...but, one in an affordable corner of the market. I have nothing against the aforementioned "mass market" brands -- I would just like to see if I can find something that begins to flirt with the more serious, audiophile side of the market in terms of a pair of floorstanders designed with two-channel audio in mind first and foremost if possible.

Now, I attempted to put together a list with categories in my last thread, but this just got so complex and confusing to many (including me!) in that the price ranges and brands were seemingly all over the place and some categories simply washed into others at certain price points and brand mentions. I am attempting to clear this up this time around, so let's go over some ground rules first...

The speakers must be floorstanding towers, not bookshelves with stands, and I would prefer to buy new, not second-hand from the likes of Audiogon, etc. (nothing against the site or the members -- it's just our preference to buy new).

These speakers are going to be used exclusively for two-channel stereo audio playback from sources including tuner (from a 100 watt X 2 Onkyo TX-8555 stereo receiver), CD changer, dual CD player/mixer unit and, eventually, a turntable. No home theater is being involved in this system or this room (the home theater setup is in another room completely, downstairs in our family/living room), and I would like to find a pair from a brand that perhaps is more known for their musical speakers in their pedigree.

I'd like to stick to speakers that don't have a difficult ohm rating to deal with or low sensitivity, as I am driving them with Onkyo's 8555 -- while muscular and totally potent, I'd rather have the amp in this unit driving 8 ohm speakers with a fairly high sensitivity (90dB and higher).

The towers cannot be that large due to the positioning of the system in this room (an upstairs loft) -- the speakers will be flanking an open-style Bell'O glass shelfed audio tower which contains the components of the two-channel system, and the setup itself is in a corner of the room, with my recliner in the opposite corner for the best stereo separation possible with our layout. So, the floorstanders can't be that tall or massive in any dimension; for comparison purposes, this pair cannot be as large, as, say, the Polk RTi12 towers in our home theater setup.

I am truly unsure of the raw budget for this purpose, as vital as it is based on what everyone is telling me -- our budget is FAR from bottomless, but I just kind of "know" what it will be when I see a price for something...figure we'd like to stay in the, approximately, $200-$500 per-speaker range, and while I know this does not give us many choices in the category I would like to shop in (the entry-to-audiophile), I would like to see how far we can stretch the definition and possibilities.

The most important factor in this entire project is finding a pair of floorstanding towers that will allow us to get our feet wet in the pool of "approaching audiophile" speakers -- from what I understand, this includes brands such as PSB, Paradigm, NHT et al, but we would also like to consider speakers that are specifically known for their musicality rather than being tied to a home theater family of sorts. As for music tastes, it's really all over the place -- at night we like to relax to a local public jazz station on the receiver's tuner, while when we break out the CD collection, the music types can range from easy listening to pop to classic rock to modern rock to Eurotrance and beyond. So the speakers should be well-rounded in terms of delivery I suppose...

Given these criteria, let's take a look at some of the listings I made in the original thread based on what I found on Crutchfield's site in terms of their speaker offerings (towers) and price categories...and let's see where we can draw the lines with regard to where the categories become "beyond mass market" or entry level...

$200-$300 (Each) Selections:

Polk TSi300 (something screams "cheap" to me about these)
Infinity Primus P363 (from all accounts, DEFINITELY a consideration regardless of price)
Cambridge Audio S70 (does anyone know anything about Cambridge's speakers beyond their renowned integrated amps/CD players?)
Boston Acoustics A250 (I don't know much about Boston's sound)
Klipsch Reference RF-42 II
Polk TSi400 (see Polk comment above)
Klipsch Reference RF-52 II

$400-$500 (Each) Selections:

Boston A360 (see Boston comment above)
Klipsch Reference RF-62 II
Polk RTi A5
Polk TSi500
Klipsch Reference RF-82 II
NHT Classic Absolute Tower
Polk RTi A7
PSB Image T5

$600-$800 (Each) Selections:

Def Tech BP-8020ST (would Def Techs be good for a sub-less 2.0 system being that they have a sub built in their towers?)
Def Tech BP10B
JBL Studio 570 (I gravitate to JBLs as well for some reason...but they seem to be so expensive!)
Klipsch Reference RF-82 II
PSB Image T6
Boston RS334
PSB Alpha T1

At this point and beyond, it seems like our budget and size threshold is being surpassed -- but what I would like to get some feedback on from all you folks in terms of what near-audiophile brands I should be considering at a rather "affordable" price point from this point onward...

In other words, should I be looking for the likes of Paradigm, NHT, PSB et al rather than Polk, Infinity, Klipsch and would they even fit our (vague) budget? What other "quasi-audiophile" brands can I consider?

 

[Impulse]

It doesn't matter really what brand you go with. Sure, a bose speaker will not sound as good as something from Triangle. But you aren't looking at something that costs 10 grand a pair either. I would say, find a dealer near you. Go audition.

I for a while, just looked up brands and saw what they had to offer. I often heard of B&W and thought "ehh, too popular." Until i heard them. My god, i almost squealed at the sound. My $1000 pair of klipsches sounded like ipod earbuds compared to the $1500 B&w's.

Honestly I would stop looking at brands and start hearing them.

All the brands you mentioned make good speakers. So now all you do is go audition and it will reduce your choices to what your ears loved best much faster than anyone can tell you.

If there is a sonus faber dealer near you. I would go take a listen. That is a make of speaker that when i heard, made even the B&Ws sound inferior on every aspect, in my opinion.

However something in your price range, i'd stick with B&W. Listen to them. Def tech imo isnt so great for music. Wonderful for movies though.

Good luck on your search man.

 

[Steve81]

Honestly I would stop looking at brands and start hearing them.

Bingo. Only your ears can tell you if a pair of Klipsch RF-82s or PSB Image T6's sound more like live music to them. They simply have different strengths, and what you appreciate in music may be a secondary concern to someone else.

Couple of notes on your list: the PSB Alpha T1 is 700 for the pair. Also, the Image T6 is a little on the difficult to drive side.

PSB Image T6 loudspeaker Measurements | Stereophile.com

PSB specifies the Image T6's impedance at 6 ohms, with a 4 ohm minimum magnitude. My measurement (fig.1) went a little lower than 4 ohms, with a minimum value of 3.1 ohms at 415Hz, and there is also a combination of 4.5 ohms and a –45° electrical phase angle at 94Hz. While the impedance does remain at or above 6 ohms above 1100Hz, this speaker really will work best with amplifiers or receivers rated at 4 ohms.

Given that it remains at or under 4 ohms from ~100Hz to ~800Hz, that could tax your Onkyo a bit more than you'd care for. Or not.

 

[markw]

He nailed it.

... stop looking at brands and start hearing them.

While you're at it, stop throwing that "audiophile" word around. You sound pretentious.

 

[zieglj01]

All in all, I think that you are still spinning on a merry-go-round.
Also, you do not judge a speaker by the word "audiophile."

You were given some good answers in your origional thread.

You are still somewhat confused about Cambridge Audio - they do
make good speakers and I do enjoy their sound quality. They are
my favorite budget friendly speaker line. Boston is a good one, and
they even used a Marantz electronics designer, to help with their
design and voicing.

Not that you really need to audition or buy it - I am still wondering
why you took the Monitor Audio Silver series, off your list.

Now, since you are still on a merry-go-round > here is a subjective
review of the Cambrige S30 bookshelf speaker.
http://www.amazon.com/Cambridge-Audio-Speakers-Dark-Pair/product-reviews/B004NDN9NK/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1

Have fun in your journey and good luck!

 

[Impulse]

While you're at it, stop throwing that "audiophile" word around. You sound pretentious.

..were you talking about my comment? or..

 

[jonnythan]

I think he was adding to your comment, directing it at the OP.

 

[Impulse]

Ah, all right. Either way, to OP;

I really think an audition will narrow your choice down. Think of it like you are car shopping.

 

[markw]

Thank you JT. You are correct, sir.

I think he was adding to your comment, directing it at the OP.

It was directed at OP. Impulse, I hoped to amplify your simple , succinct solution to all this verbose diatribes we've been subjected to lately. I apologize for any confusion.

Personally, I think OP is more interested in the interaction than getting answers.

PS. Come to think of it, I don't think you even used the word "Audiophile".

 

[Matt34]

Is Aware








*Wonders how his IP didn't come up flagged?*

 

[Impulse]

It was directed at OP. Impulse, I hoped to amplify your simple , succinct solution to all this verbose diatribes we've been subjected to lately. I apologize for any confusion.

Personally, I think OP is more interested in the interaction than getting answers.

PS. Come to think of it, I don't think you even used the word "Audiophile".

Haha not a problem, my mistake. And thank you for supporting my comment.

And perhaps you are right, sometimes they want more response than anything. I used to be similar, I would just compare speaker brands until I went and listened. Now, I cannot have an opinion on something until I have spent some time with it.

 

[zieglj01]

And perhaps you are right, sometimes they want more response than anything. I used to be similar, I would just compare speaker brands until I went and listened. Now, I cannot have an opinion on something until I have spent some time with it.

I agree with you and markw - someone is more interested in interactions
than the reccomendations. A lot of people contributed to the other thread,
with some good responses.

"At this point and beyond, it seems like our budget and size threshold is being surpassed -- but what I would like to get some feedback on from all you folks in terms of what near-audiophile brands I should be considering at a rather "affordable" price point from this point onward"

 

[HorizonRidge]

For the record, I am absolutely not just interested in responses for the sake of getting responses as I am being accused of here in nearly every reply post -- additionally, I am NOT a pretentious individual nor do I feel the comments I have been making with regard to using the term "audiophile" is pretentious in any way...all I am trying to ask when I begin these threads is if there is a certain brand I could look at which could get us in the door and exposed to a speaker that sits in a somewhat "higher regard" than the typical big box brands; I don't really see what is so pretentious about this. It is obvious there are brands and products which are just "made better" than others; why would there be such a price difference if this doesn't hold some validity?

I clearly stated that I in no way, shape or form "have anything against" the brands I originally mentioned (Klipsch/Polk/Infinity et al) and that I myself have Polk RTi12 speakers running in my home theater rig and that they're monsters for what they do. I am trying to see if we can delve into the more "regarded" (I'll use this term instead of the "audiophile" reference which seems to be rubbing certain people the wrong way, seemingly) brands of speakers specifically which may be geared more for serious music listening. That's all. No pretentious methodology intended here.

Thanks to all those who made their recommendations in terms of throwing some brands out there -- i.e. the member who suggested I consider B&W; the problem with attempting to audition speakers in these "step up" classes is that we have absolutely NO stores in our area save for a Fry's and a Best Buy which carry electronics and where one can actually go in and demo gear. THAT is specifically why I wanted to get some feedback from the membership here so I had something to go on in terms of brands I may consider, as there really are no independent, hobbyist-oriented shops anywhere in my area.

I will try and do some more online research on these brands so as not to ruffle anymore feathers here.

 

[ACsGreens]

Where are you located?

 

[fuzz092888]

So I have a question. Why does your sig say "Just call me Pearlcorder" ??

 

[Impulse]

I understand the feeling of having almost no option to listen to the speakers. If you would like, heres my opinion on some brands.

Considering they are all at around 1-2k:

Polk audio:
Warm sound, I like polk because I have a pair of old polks that are very close to my budget klipsches. In fact the only reason im selling them is because I bought them on someones reccomendation and I think theyre just not the sound for me. Polks are well all around, little light on bass but I find to have good mids.

Infinity: brighter than hell, but good for the money, even brand new. Loudness is a strong suit of them. Not heard too many of them though.

Klipsch: its a love it or hate it with most people. For me, im eh. For vocals, the klipsch are by far the crispest, more on the female side. The mids lack, not terribly but they do. Bass is tight, and powerful. The klipsches always look fantastic and they sound good and are very efficient. They sound best played loudly.

B&W: imo they are superior in the price range. Ive heard the 683s and 802s and cm9s.
Such clarity and soundstage. Such transparancy and vocal reproduction. I am dying until i can sell my klipsches to buy some. Really an above and beyond speaker in the 1k range. And the 802s...fughetta bout it. Made me almost cry. But ive notices bowers speakers habe a smallish sweetspot. Kind of directional. Bass is slightly weaker than klipsches imo.

Sonus faber:
Hot diggity damn.

 

[3db]

For the record, I am absolutely not just interested in responses for the sake of getting responses as I am being accused of here in nearly every reply post -- additionally, I am NOT a pretentious individual nor do I feel the comments I have been making with regard to using the term "audiophile" is pretentious in any way...all I am trying to ask when I begin these threads is if there is a certain brand I could look at which could get us in the door and exposed to a speaker that sits in a somewhat "higher regard" than the typical big box brands; I don't really see what is so pretentious about this. It is obvious there are brands and products which are just "made better" than others; why would there be such a price difference if this doesn't hold some validity?

I clearly stated that I in no way, shape or form "have anything against" the brands I originally mentioned (Klipsch/Polk/Infinity et al) and that I myself have Polk RTi12 speakers running in my home theater rig and that they're monsters for what they do. I am trying to see if we can delve into the more "regarded" (I'll use this term instead of the "audiophile" reference which seems to be rubbing certain people the wrong way, seemingly) brands of speakers specifically which may be geared more for serious music listening. That's all. No pretentious methodology intended here.

Thanks to all those who made their recommendations in terms of throwing some brands out there -- i.e. the member who suggested I consider B&W; the problem with attempting to audition speakers in these "step up" classes is that we have absolutely NO stores in our area save for a Fry's and a Best Buy which carry electronics and where one can actually go in and demo gear. THAT is specifically why I wanted to get some feedback from the membership here so I had something to go on in terms of brands I may consider, as there really are no independent, hobbyist-oriented shops anywhere in my area.

I will try and do some more online research on these brands so as not to ruffle anymore feathers here.

Ok.. the time has come for you to stop making lists and gather opinions from others and start relying on your own ears through the audition process. Hearing is individual and no two people hear exactly the same way. Another words, its subjective....Now to help you audition...

What I would do is to take a pad of paper with you, write down the make and
model of each speaker you audition and what you liked and disliked about the
speakers you were auditioning. Was the bass tight and deep or was it boomy and loose sounding? Were the mids life like or were they hollow or just too pronounced? Was the treble irritating and harsh or were they dark and not revealing or were they smooththat made you want to listen for more? How was the imaging?

Bring music with you that you are very familiar with and know quite well. To
make it easier to audition HT speaker systems, listen to the main speakers in 2 channel mode with music. Music is much harder to reproduce accurately then amovie soundtrack so if the speakers do well with music, then they will do wellwith HT. Speakers that do HT well may not do well with music. When auditioning the center channel of the same brand and series as the main speakers, pick a difficult source like an announcer that mumbles alot. If you can understand what the mumbling announcer is saying, then you have a good center channel.

I would go to speciality stores first and start auditioning speakers first
instead of going to the internet first. Once your likes are determined, you can mention them here and fellow members can make internet brand recommendations based on your likes/dislikes. The specality stores are better setup acousticaly then the big box stores which will make auditioning a little easier. It will give you an idea of what you like in a speaker.

Keep track of what amp or receiver is powering the speakers you're auditioning.
Try to get a receiver/amp that closest resembles what you have or want to get.
It just reduces another variable when audtioning speakers.


One thing to keep note off. When auditioning speakers, make sure the volume
levels are matched between the diiferent speaker pairs because the louder
speaker pair will always sound better. Listen to levels that you think you
would listen to most of the time because thats how you are going to be using
them most of the time.

 

[cpp]

Ok.. the time has come for you to stop making lists and gather opinions from others and start relying on your own ears through the audition process. Hearing is individual and no two people hear exactly the same way. Another words, its subjective....Now to help you audition...

What I would do is to take a pad of paper with you, write down the make and
model of each speaker you audition and what you liked and disliked about the
speakers you were auditioning. Was the bass tight and deep or was it boomy and loose sounding? Were the mids life like or were they hollow or just too pronounced? Was the treble irritating and harsh or were they dark and not revealing or were they smooththat made you want to listen for more? How was the imaging?

Bring music with you that you are very familiar with and know quite well. To
make it easier to audition HT speaker systems, listen to the main speakers in 2 channel mode with music. Music is much harder to reproduce accurately then amovie soundtrack so if the speakers do well with music, then they will do wellwith HT. Speakers that do HT well may not do well with music. When auditioning the center channel of the same brand and series as the main speakers, pick a difficult source like an announcer that mumbles alot. If you can understand what the mumbling announcer is saying, then you have a good center channel.

I would go to speciality stores first and start auditioning speakers first
instead of going to the internet first. Once your likes are determined, you can mention them here and fellow members can make internet brand recommendations based on your likes/dislikes. The specality stores are better setup acousticaly then the big box stores which will make auditioning a little easier. It will give you an idea of what you like in a speaker.

Keep track of what amp or receiver is powering the speakers you're auditioning.
Try to get a receiver/amp that closest resembles what you have or want to get.
It just reduces another variable when audtioning speakers.


One thing to keep note off. When auditioning speakers, make sure the volume
levels are matched between the diiferent speaker pairs because the louder
speaker pair will always sound better. Listen to levels that you think you
would listen to most of the time because thats how you are going to be using
them most of the time.

well said 3db

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I am trying to see if we can delve into the more "regarded" brands of speakers specifically which may be geared more for serious music listening.

I would buy used speakers on eBay and AudiogoN in excellent conditions and save 50%.

IMO, the highly regarded speakers include Revel, B&W, KEF, Focal, Dynaudio, to name a few.

Revel is owned by Harman, which makes the $60,000 JBL Everest.
KEF makes the $160K Muon.
B&W makes the $60K Nautilus.
Focal makes the $180K Grande Utopia.
Dynaudio makes the $100K Evidence Master.

You will see the trickle down benefits with all their speakers based on all that R&D from their ultimate creations.

 

[its phillip]

So I have a question. Why does your sig say "Just call me Pearlcorder" ??

He was probably before your time