Oh no, not cables again, but...

highfihoney

highfihoney

Audioholic Samurai
mulester7 said:
how I have learned to abhore the term DBT Protocol....when I hear it now, I picture some smart-aleck skinny pimpley kid with two-inch thick glasses, who's now a rather goofy acting adult, making other normal persons want to be elsewhere, then again, define normal....I really don't think it's a matter of wanting to know how something works either, as it usually works out to be an avenue of creating controversy for attention....physical evidence, Tbewich?....reviews giving scientific measurements and supposed findings?....I simply don't need or want them....I guess scopes and meters are necessary in the production of our equipment to establish specs to be listed....but as for me, tell me what you hear, describe it as best you can, and I'll be interested possibly enough to run it by my ears....DBT Protocol....pleeeeease....where's my barf-bucket?......

hahaha :) i couldnt agree more,the bad thing about all this protocol & dbt business it that its been ran straight in the ground to the point its like hearing a madonna song.

i wish the guys who like to throw around protocol & dbt would post some listening experiences they have had in their own systems,dont just tell us that somethings unnecessary or that it wont make a difference then take the sigmond freud approach of answering a question with another question ,tell us what YOU heard.
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
highfihoney said:
,tell us what YOU heard.

That has no bearing on what you can or cannot hear or what you claim or don't claim, right? Hence, it is irrelevant.
 
T

tbewick

Senior Audioholic
mtrycrafts, if you provide references to the papers or the statistical data themselves, then there wouldn't be any further argument. I'm sure you have done in the past, but for newer forum members it would be very helpful. Anyone who refuses to accept the scientific method, well, there's not much you can do for them.
 
highfihoney

highfihoney

Audioholic Samurai
mtrycrafts said:
That has no bearing on what you can or cannot hear or what you claim or don't claim, right? Hence, it is irrelevant.
if listening experiences are irrelevant then your listening experiences at "friends houses" would also be irrelevant then,right?
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
highfihoney said:
if listening experiences are irrelevant then your listening experiences at "friends houses" would also be irrelevant then,right?
Of course, for the purposes you desire it to be.
 
mulester7

mulester7

Audioholic Samurai
tbewick said:
mtrycrafts, if you provide references to the papers or the statistical data themselves, then there wouldn't be any further argument. I'm sure you have done in the past, but for newer forum members it would be very helpful. Anyone who refuses to accept the scientific method, well, there's not much you can do for them.
.....Tbewick, rest assured, this hobby is about listening to, and experiencing, sound qualities, not reading articles by guys who took measurements....and also rest assured, more members and readers at this site ascribe to listening, MUCH more, than reading, and thank goodness, always will....how ridiculous for someone to say what another hears is irrelevant....please, think about that.....
 
Sheep

Sheep

Audioholic Warlord
I prefer numbers for subwoofers. I want to see how much TD, GD, and PC there is. I also want an FR graph for speakers and subwoofers.

Call me crazy.

SheepStar
 
mulester7

mulester7

Audioholic Samurai
Sheep said:
I prefer numbers for subwoofers. I want to see how much TD, GD, and PC there is. I also want an FR graph for speakers and subwoofers.

Call me crazy.

SheepStar
....sure, Sheep, everybody wants the specs of a component as they consider a purchase....that's not what I'm talking about....I'm talking about after the purchase, someone reports a hearing concerning the sound quality, and are attacked saying they could not have heard such, because Mortimer Stifflewhoffer said so in a review....these are the people who evidently don't have a clue as they listen to ANYTHING, and to me, what THEY have to say is irrelevant, and won't be read by me for very long.....
 
Sheep

Sheep

Audioholic Warlord
mulester7 said:
....sure, Sheep, everybody wants the specs of a component as they consider a purchase....that's not what I'm talking about....I'm talking about after the purchase, someone reports a hearing concerning the sound quality, and are attacked saying they could not have heard such, because Mortimer Stifflewhoffer said so in a review....these are the people who evidently don't have a clue as they listen to ANYTHING, and to me, what THEY have to say is irrelevant, and won't be read by me for very long.....
OH, I see what your talking about. Yeah, totally agree.

SheepStar
 
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mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
tbewick said:
mtrycrafts, if you provide references to the papers or the statistical data themselves, then there wouldn't be any further argument. I'm sure you have done in the past, but for newer forum members it would be very helpful. Anyone who refuses to accept the scientific method, well, there's not much you can do for them.
Then the issue is that it is the same old stuff, nothing new, the latest and greatest. Or, it is too old as though old knowledge and research somehow has an expiration date. Nothing will make a difference.
First, if you don't have first hand experience, you don't know anything.
No wonder science is looked down upon by so many, not an inkling of its need, benefit, etc.
 
G

GerryH

Audiophyte
The zom's are still among us.

I am still amazed at the amount of ink/bits spent on reviews and discussions of cables. I am firmly in the Audioholics snakeoil school of thought, but can anyone explain why so many people still ascribe large changes in the sound of their system when they change cabling? I've seen reviews by users and reviewers that are so detailed about the differences in interconnects and power cords that you almost start believing them. Having read the AH articles, and having listened to a very few different cables in my system, I just don't hear any differences. I have a pretty "resolving" system, too

I do hear differences between CD players (using their analog connections) and preamps.

Is this just mass placebo effect?

The nut-jobs you refer to have been around for decades. They are the same mental class of borgs you will find lined up to load an ACORN bus. Their zeal for ober-cables, (among other malformed fetishes), is manifest in their carnal desire for assention to: "change they can believe in"! ;)
 
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M

mustang_steve

Senior Audioholic
This is why I love digital audio....the effect interference has is either the transmission is screwed up or it's not....there is no coloration in the sound, etc. Same for digital video transmission.

Honestly, I think analog is being pushed so hard lately because the snake-oil vendors are scared that people will sie up and their cash cow will disappear.

When people ask me for cable advice for a digital home theater...I tell them "go to monoprice, get the "premium" cable (thicker and shielded) and call it a day. They'll get enough cabling to outfit an entire home theater for under $50....in my case, under $25.

The only reason I would ever reccomend fancy speaker cables is for cosmetic reasons. I miss K&B Signal Solutions for that reason...they made great looking and performing speaker cables for about the same price I could have made those cables myself.
 
lsiberian

lsiberian

Audioholic Overlord
This is why I love digital audio....the effect interference has is either the transmission is screwed up or it's not....there is no coloration in the sound, etc. Same for digital video transmission.

Honestly, I think analog is being pushed so hard lately because the snake-oil vendors are scared that people will sie up and their cash cow will disappear.

When people ask me for cable advice for a digital home theater...I tell them "go to monoprice, get the "premium" cable (thicker and shielded) and call it a day. They'll get enough cabling to outfit an entire home theater for under $50....in my case, under $25.

The only reason I would ever reccomend fancy speaker cables is for cosmetic reasons. I miss K&B Signal Solutions for that reason...they made great looking and performing speaker cables for about the same price I could have made those cables myself.
My theater costs so much more. but I got way too many cables.
 
C

copperfox

Audioholic Intern
Doesn't this say it all?

From the Audio Quest "Cable Theory" PDF, page 27:

"The only thing that needs to be learned is how not to be misled by the incredibly deceptive process of listening to equipment."

That's right - listening to equipment is incredibly deceptive! If you can't trust your ears, then you will have to trust AudioQuest instead! ;)


:mad: No reason to beat around the bush: Audio Quest employees are liars.
 
Patrick_Wolf

Patrick_Wolf

Audioholic
If you think it's real. If you believe it's real. If you know it's real. Then it must be real. However you are the only one in control of your thoughts, and the mind is easy to fool.
 
Geno

Geno

Senior Audioholic
Regarding the "sound" of different cables: I tried an expensive interconnect from Kimber against a cheap one from Bluejeans. They both made the same "kerplunk" when dropped. That's proof enough for me...:rolleyes:
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
Regarding the "sound" of different cables: I tried an expensive interconnect from Kimber against a cheap one from Bluejeans. They both made the same "kerplunk" when dropped. That's proof enough for me...:rolleyes:
What??? You dared to do the drop test?:eek: But, did they hit at the same instant? Maybe your memory is paling tricks again? :D
 
AJinFLA

AJinFLA

Banned
Regarding the "sound" of different cables: I tried an expensive interconnect from Kimber against a cheap one from Bluejeans. They both made the same "kerplunk" when dropped. That's proof enough for me...:rolleyes:
That only means that your floor isn't "revealing" enough. Clearly you have "Mid-Fi" tiles, wood or carpet (Linoleum qualifies as "Lo-Fi").
 
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