Off topic discussion about reviews and MSRP

[Audioholics]

Gene, on this you are in error and need stand corrected. I specifically stated delivery was NOT the problem

For YOUR recollection you refused to state the problem, even after originally designating it as a "nightmare". After 66 posts and numerous requests you refused to clarify... Of course we would change the thread title you numbskull - you bashed the company without any facts or information. For all we knew at the time you worked for a competitor. Everyone kept asking you what your specific problem was and you refused to respond. Here is the thread for anyone interested:

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11086&highlight=nightmare

SVS was not an advertiser at the time - but the pesky facts just seem to get in the way don't they?

I don't have time to babysit your incessant and grossly innaccurate attacks on our credibility. There is apparently nothing we are going to be able to say to you to change your opinion, but I am a fool if I am going to let you hang out on our forums and post threads bashing us for doing what we do.

Maybe you can start your own website forum. Yes, this is censorship and you have been banned - I don't have time to defend myself when your arrogant accusations are the equivalent of "we should do everything for free or else we're hopelessly biased". I am not paying for these forums so that you can sit at work and attack us all day. I think we have been more than fair but enough is enough. Have a nice day.

 

[Tsunamii]

I don't get paid by SVS or anyone in the AV industry for that matter and I have an SVS. They took their time to answer all of my questions, shipped promptly and received shrotly there after. I have had it for almost 2 years and still love it.
I go to consumer reports some times to get their "unbiased" take on things and disagree with them often. I have products they rate average that have worked great for me and above others they rated higher. Reviews are subjective to a point. What is best in audio? A review or what sounds best to you? For me its, what sounds best to my ears, I read reviews to put me on a track but at the end of the day its what's best for me not audioholics, consumer reports my neighbor or his cousin. Just because you have advertisers does not mean you can not give an unbiased review.

 

[majorloser]

I don't get paid by SVS or anyone in the AV industry for that matter and I have an SVS. They took their time to answer all of my questions, shipped promptly and received shrotly there after. I have had it for almost 2 years and still love it.
I go to consumer reports some times to get their "unbiased" take on things and disagree with them often. I have products they rate average that have worked great for me and above others they rated higher. Reviews are subjective to a point. What is best in audio? A review or what sounds best to you? For me its, what sounds best to my ears, I read reviews to put me on a track but at the end of the day its what's best for me not audioholics, consumer reports my neighbor or his cousin. Just because you have advertisers does not mean you can not give an unbiased review.

Maybe it's just me but Consumer Reports seems to weigh price too heavily in their ratings. Performance and quality will be overlooked if they feel an item's lower price makes up for a less than stellar performance. Many times I have felt that they ranked the best quality item near the bottom because of the cost.

Let's face it, you normally have to pay for quality. It's quality or quantity, you can't have both.

 

[MacManNM]

I get a red chicklet at 2:31pm on this thread for asking a question? Please. If you can't ask questions, why bother with a forum?

This was the response in my user cp rating:



So should we assume the person making this comment is involved? I would only hope people don't need to question themselves about ethics.

That is BS. Too bad that person doesn't have the stones to speak out in public, instead of hiding. This is why this rating system is bad. There is no accountability. Power without accountability is chaos.

 

[Tom Andry]

Maybe it's just me but Consumer Reports seems to weigh price too heavily in their ratings. Performance and quality will be overlooked if they feel an item's lower price makes up for a less than stellar performance. Many times I have felt that they ranked the best quality item near the bottom because of the cost.

Let's face it, you normally have to pay for quality. It's quality or quantity, you can't have both.

With cars this is especially true. I've noticed that CR really weighs price heavily while Car and Driver sides with horsepower. I think it depends on the audience. CR's audience is much more cost conscious.

 

[craigsub]

Consumer Reports is a fascinating organization - from their mission statement:

Consumer Reports® and ConsumerReports.org® are published by Consumers Union, an expert, independent nonprofit organization whose mission is to work for a fair, just, and safe marketplace for all consumers and to empower consumers to protect themselves. To achieve this mission, we test, inform, and protect. To maintain our independence and impartiality, CU accepts no outside advertising, no free test samples, and has no agenda other than the interests of consumers. CU supports itself through the sale of our information products and services, individual contributions, and a few noncommercial grants. Consumers Union is governed by a board of 18 directors, who are elected by CU members and meet three times a year. CU's President, James Guest, oversees a staff of more than 450.

They buy all the products, The income from their magazine MAYBE covers their costs to deliver the subscriptions. Does anyone really think they have no financial ties to someone ?

They have to pay for a staff of 450 people, spend millions of dollars buying the products, and have no public income source.

 

[Matt34]

That is BS. Too bad that person doesn't have the stones to speak out in public, instead of hiding. This is why this rating system is bad. There is no accountability. Power without accountability is chaos.

I personally don't care either way(seems like a Highschool popularity contest to me) but Buckeye is a source of information that I have come to enjoy. Nowhere have I seen him be rude or unprofessional during his posts....and if asking one question and then receiving one negative vote for that question can put you in the red.....

So now, IMO, we have a person that now might not be so willing to help a newcomer and/or the newcomer not listening to the advice/knowledge because of a flawed rating system. Then who's to say he/she will want to stick around.

 

[BMXTRIX]

Wow! This topic has really gotten off topic hasn't it?

I guess I would have to say that I think that publishing a local B&M pricing for the product which would represent average joe walking in off the street would not be a bad thing. Regardless of MSRP, some products simply can be had at a much better price from an authorized dealer in person than others can. It may be 5% less, or it may be 30% less. Heck, it could be 0% less and you are paying MSRP.

But, I don't see how this is a disservice to anyone and I believe it would help to put the review into a more real world perspective. I absolutely hate this with projector pricing which can be over 30% less online and 15-20% less in store. This is a cost difference of hundreds to thousands of dollars which puts a lot more projectors into my price category and drops others below what I really wanted to spend.

What is the disservice? I have no problem if a manufacturer only goes through specialty stores and everything is flat MSRP. I just want to KNOW that. It would be nice to know that the vendor deals online through authorized online merchants so my buying warranty is honored reliably.

Really, I will basically never buy a high-end piece of gear from a B&M for 10% more than I need to spend or deal with a manufacturer that gets my money, but won't honor their warranty because I purchased online. If I am willing to buy online, then I wish more manufacturers would step up to the plate and push for their product to be sold through whatever channels boost their revenue and then put the infrastructure in place to ensure happy end users.

I don't run this site, I don't particularly care if it does or doesn't happen, I understand both sides of the arguement, but I don't see how having more information is ever a disservice.

 

[MacManNM]

For YOUR recollection you refused to state the problem, even after originally designating it as a "nightmare". After 66 posts and numerous requests you refused to clarify... Of course we would change the thread title you numbskull - you bashed the company without any facts or information. For all we knew at the time you worked for a competitor. Everyone kept asking you what your specific problem was and you refused to respond. Here is the thread for anyone interested:

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11086&highlight=nightmare

SVS was not an advertiser at the time - but the pesky facts just seem to get in the way don't they?

I don't have time to babysit your incessant and grossly innaccurate attacks on our credibility. There is apparently nothing we are going to be able to say to you to change your opinion, but I am a fool if I am going to let you hang out on our forums and post threads bashing us for doing what we do.

Maybe you can start your own website forum. Yes, this is censorship and you have been banned - I don't have time to defend myself when your arrogant accusations are the equivalent of "we should do everything for free or else we're hopelessly biased". I am not paying for these forums so that you can sit at work and attack us all day. I think we have been more than fair but enough is enough. Have a nice day.

Look, isn't this kind of thing that the rep is for (chicklets)? You have tons of little green things, so everyone should listen to you. 9f has none so no one listens to him. I don't think you need to defend yourself against any of his comments, let alone ban him. That implies guilt IMO.

 

[Audioholics]

Look, isn't this kind of thing that the rep is for (chicklets)? You have tons of little green things, so everyone should listen to you. 9f has none so no one listens to him. I don't think you need to defend yourself against any of his comments, let alone ban him. That implies guilt IMO.

Chicklets? No, slander and accusations are not something we need to deal with or tolerate on these boards (plus it's incredibly annoying). We don't have the time and don't want people running around on our boards casting aspersions and false accusations against us.

Would you let someone sit in your living room and criticise the way you run your business - even if every once in a while you could get up and give him a nasty sticker? Of course not. Accusations are easy to make - but it takes more time to get the facts straight and it's less fun.

This is not directed at you, but explains why chicklets don't really cut it.

[Edit: Overreacted... ]

 

[MacManNM]

Chicklets? No, slander and accusations are not something we need to deal with or tolerate on these boards (plus it's incredibly annoying). We don't have the time and don't want people running around on our boards casting aspersions and false accusations against us.

Would you let someone sit in your living room and criticise the way you run your business - even if every once in a while you could get up and give him a nasty sticker? Of course not. Don't be part of the problem. Accusations are easy to make - but it takes more time to get the facts straight and it's less fun.

I don't appreciate the tone. I never accused you of anything. You all are taking things way too far here. This is a Hobby for crying out loud. I make jokes about stuff all the time, including Axiom. Have I questioned your integrity? No. Let your work stand for itself. Someone made a good point about the reviews, (you or someone else) they are in depth and thorough, more so than other mags and such. If people want to believe they are biased then let them. I posted some data that no one seems to believe (one of your guys had problems with it, but a certain national lab used it with great success), did I come whining and screaming? No. Move on.

 

[malvado78]

I took the Axiom comment to be a joke. But the tone of this tread has not been jokingly. If I were running a forum I would have banned 9c whatever his name is also. I think they do a great job around here. I have spent sometime on other HT forums and found them to be alright but I am addicted to this one. I think their articles are well written and if they do have biases they hide them well enough for me. Good job around here Clint and Co.

 

[Audioholics]

I don't appreciate the tone. I never accused you of anything.

I think we've already established in a PM that we misunderstood you and this was an overreaction on our part (to the "implies guilt" comment).

No worries.

 

[mulester7]

.....ALL RIGHT, OK, things are back to normal, we're all the wiser, the baddest Samurai on the planet's green again, there's counters to be worked, and a worthless spambot is still runnin' around loose blabbin' crap, be on the lookout, git a rope....somebody build a campfire outside and let's roast some marshmallows....Gene, go outside to fart, what's wrong with ya'?......

 

[surveyor]

It is interesting to note that most of the equipment reviewed favorably on this site seems to do very well on many others!
This site goes into great detail with their reviews.
I enjoy it here!
However; I'm biased toward Yamaha and Dennon, so sue me!
I'm on the take, why my 1998 Ford Contour with 160,000 miles proves this.
I'm sure that some of the exotic purveyors of snake oil dislike some of the reads here though.

P.S. please send me large quantities of money for saying so.

 

[brian32672]

.....ALL RIGHT, OK, things are back to normal, we're all the wiser, the baddest Samurai on the planet's green again, there's counters to be worked, and a worthless spambot is still runnin' around loose blabbin' crap, be on the lookout, git a rope....somebody build a campfire outside and let's roast some marshmallows....Gene, go outside to fart, what's wrong with ya'?......

Funny, LOL. I can certainly see why you got the tag Spambot...
EDIT:: Sometimes I wonder about you Ron.

 

[MacManNM]

I think we've already established in a PM that we misunderstood you and this was an overreaction on our part (to the "implies guilt" comment).

No worries.

Right, no worries, let's get back to audio!!!

 

[mulester7]

EDIT:: Sometimes I wonder about you Ron.

.....as well you should, Brian, but I'm harmless, you know that.....

 

[MacManNM]

.....as well you should, Brian, but I'm harmless, you know that.....

Unless you are a 21yr old hottie with a severe desire for an old bald guy. Wait........I guess that's me!