Now that streaming video sucks and getting worse, can physical media be saved?

Wayde Robson

Wayde Robson

Audioholics Anchorman
There are those who believe optical disc players aren't long for this home theater hobby. Streaming seems like the obvious successor, but it's only going to get more expensive for a service that's demonstrably worse than disc.
Is it a good time for physical media to make a comeback in home video?

Preference for movie disc is presently only a dedicated niche that includes film director Christopher Nolan and he's been vocal about his support for the medium lately. I like to think the market can save it from oblivion. Since the big studios are losing box office revenue, they should be reluctant to end disc sales, even it is just thin sliver of a film's revenue pie.

Personally, I think physical media should be the real choice of patriotic Americans!

A Return to Blu-ray as Streaming Value Evaporates
Phys-Media.jpg
 
isolar8001

isolar8001

Audioholic General
There are those who believe optical disc players aren't long for this home theater hobby. Streaming seems like the obvious successor, but it's only going to get more expensive for a service that's demonstrably worse than disc.
Is it a good time for physical media to make a comeback in home video?

Preference for movie disc is presently only a dedicated niche that includes film director Christopher Nolan and he's been vocal about his support for the medium lately. I like to think the market can save it from oblivion. Since the big studios are losing box office revenue, they should be reluctant to end disc sales, even it is just thin sliver of a film's revenue pie.

Personally, I think physical media should be the real choice of patriotic Americans!

A Return to Blu-ray as Streaming Value Evaporates
View attachment 66585
I agree...the tide seems to be turning a bit concerning the death of physical media.
What's the sense of all the ultra high performance televisions if all people watch is third rate streaming garbage ?

As of today, at 67 years old and an audio/video buff since 1975, I have never-ever watched a show or movie on a streaming service. Just don't cut it for me. (I have thousands of shows and movies on hard drives from the best possible source...dont ask)
If I had too though...I would buy the discs. No substitute for that source.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
There are those who believe optical disc players aren't long for this home theater hobby. Streaming seems like the obvious successor, but it's only going to get more expensive for a service that's demonstrably worse than disc.
Is it a good time for physical media to make a comeback in home video?

Preference for movie disc is presently only a dedicated niche that includes film director Christopher Nolan and he's been vocal about his support for the medium lately. I like to think the market can save it from oblivion. Since the big studios are losing box office revenue, they should be reluctant to end disc sales, even it is just thin sliver of a film's revenue pie.

Personally, I think physical media should be the real choice of patriotic Americans!

A Return to Blu-ray as Streaming Value Evaporates
View attachment 66585
Wayde are you sure you are not seeing the effects of new file normalization standards? Both EBU and AES have introduced new standards for audio levels (LUFs) for audio streaming. This is similar to broadcast levels which have to be normalized to EBU-128, which is the same as the AES broadcast standards. All files for broadcast have to be normalized to that standard, or at least should be.

The streaming Internet providers have provided compelling evidence that streamed audio levels need to be normalized, so we now have EBU-r and AES 77. Unfortunately they are different. So far Dolby has been enforcing it via their licensing agreements for Atmos streams. AES 77 is 18 LUF. EBU-r is a few LUF quieter.
I am pretty sure that the BPO is following EBU-r in their Atmos stream, and actually on the recently released Atmos discs.

I am pretty certain there is going to be enforcing of this across the board. So it looks like AES 77 will be the standard for North American originated streams, but may be not. There really should have been agreement on this.

This is going to cause issues as some devices do not have enough gian for these streams. Cell phones and Alexa devices immediately come to mind.
For HT, it is going to bring signal to noise issues to the forefront, and a huge level difference between solid and streamed media. From what I can tell this is already underway.

I am going to put together an article about all this as it is a complex issue. I have had to understand this issue as I still do some work for others that will, and may be, distributed over the NET. So I now have to take note of broadcast and streaming normalizations of Wav. files.
 
Last edited:
j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
Some out of print discs are exorbitantly priced these days though. I do prefer physical media for my favorites, but some stuff I can watch and never watch again so streaming is fine. Especially shows, I do occasionally rewatch an episode or two to see if I missed some detail, but unless it was a GREAT show, I'm not likely to watch it again.
 
Wayde Robson

Wayde Robson

Audioholics Anchorman
Wayde are you sure you are not seeing the effects of new file normalization standards? Both EBU and AES have introduced new standards for audio levels (LUFs) for audio streaming. This is similar to broadcast levels which have to be normalized to EBU-128, which is the same as the AES broadcast standards. All files for broadcast have to be normalized to that standard, or at least should be.

The streaming Internet providers have provided compelling evidence that streamed audio levels need to be normalized, so we now have EBU-r and AES 77. Unfortunately they are different. So far Dolby has been enforcing it via their licensing agreements for Atmos streams. AES 77 is 18 LUF. EBU-r is a few LUF quieter.
I am pretty sure that the BPO is following EBU-r in their Atmos stream, and actually on the recently released Atmos discs.

I am pretty certain there is going to be enforcing of this across the board. So it looks like AES 77 will be the standard for North American originated streams, but may be not. There really should have been agreement on this.

This is going to cause issues as some devices do not have enough gian for these streams. Cell phones and Alexa devices immediately come to mind.
For HT, it is going to bring signal to noise issues to the forefront, and a huge level difference between solid and streamed media. From what I can tell this is already underway.

I am going to put together an article about all this as it is a complex issue. I have had to understand this issue as I still do some work for others that will, and may be, distributed over the NET. So I now have to take note of broadcast and streaming normalizations of Wav. files.
It'd be interesting to learn how to get the best from streaming. But to be honest, I have no real complaints about A/V quality with streaming, I do use it regularly. I'm not exactly a physical media purist and it's impressive how much streamed media has improved over the years. Although, depending on the disc/movie I do notice better A/V quality than even a newer stream. There may be some settings I can toggle to improve a stream, but Atmos over TrueHD sure sounds great.

What really makes disc > streaming IMHO is everything around control of the media. I like knowing I can playback anytime and the exact version I own - without George Lucas changing it on me again! I appreciate knowing I'm watching the latest restoration and audio track, and seeing the talking-heads in special features letting me hear from the guy who did the sound. I'm a sucker for all that stuff. But really only for my favorite movies, not all. Others, I'm happy to stream.

Although, I realize there's no reason streaming can't do the same on all counts, even if for an extra-extra fee. But streaming services are incentivized specifically to get subs from mass audiences, I just don't see them using more bandwidth if they don't have to. Even if there are boutique streaming services as there are boutique disc makers, I'd still rather have my favorite movies on disc and not have to rely on licensed streams.
 
N

ncklwlss

Audiophyte
This is an expert writeup on the increasingly problematic strategies of video streaming providers but what really is the answer to media ownership? In the streaming scenario, you're at the whim of whatever a certain service has licensed agreements for. You cannot own any individual title, nor its catalog at large but save a limited number of items to a device or cloud-based retrieval service. This is similar to the traditional cable viewing option, except you can record a fixed amount of items to a DVR enabled cable receiver. These streaming subscriptions, like monthly cable or satellite television services, will always have an updating and rotating list of movies and television programs available at any given time. I think people are mostly used to this kind of system. The only issue I see with this is the fact of competing services being owned by providers or networks or studios that own huge back catalogs of entertainment IP's. It now seems more than not, that each studio or entertainment property has its own streaming service. Even among boutique Blu-ray retailers there are dedicated streaming services for streaming those niche titles they release on disk. I never really understood why Arrow or Criterion would need a separate standalone streaming service until I realized it's not for their main customers, it is for the other people who don't want to commit to owning the discs. If this is the case, which it appears to be, the titles have already been scanned for digital streaming, why not include digital copy as part of their premium boxed offerings? I'd bet it's because there's still a percentage of people who will pay for the streaming service for those films for the mere convenience of not having to locate the physical copy, take out the disc from the packaging, put it into the player, go through all the menus, etc.. So they found a way they can double up on some money. I'm sure some of those movies are terribly expensive to restore and get up to the quality demanded by today's viewer and many might not be a financial home run for these small companies every time. I say let them do what they will with their product, free market right? My point is: even the niche studios that release cult films haven't disassociated themselves from video streaming. I can't say for certain but maybe some of them might be seeing sales diminishing and are moving toward a more robust streaming situation. Or maybe their sales on physical media is higher than ever and just appreciate a second revenue source and an added avenue for people to enjoy their product. [This is going a little bit longer than I had imagined but bear with me, I do have a point.] The problem really is with the individual titles that we choose to buy through a standalone service like iTunes, Google, Vudu or even through Comcast video-on-demand. These digital copies which we've paid full price and should expect to own indefinitely, doesn't always seem to be the case. For example, just recently PlayStation decided it was going to remove certain programming from its platform, even when expressly purchased by users. The access to a selection of television shows would have been removed but I believe Sony has now changed direction on this; don't bash me over this, I may be wrong. This is not new, as people have been complaining about books being removed from their Kindle devices or music missing from their iTunes library for years now. Predictably because of licensing agreements that had expired or failed to be renewed. So the age old question, as it seems, queries once more: who owns our digital purchases? Those who have devoted their time, energy and finances towards obtaining personal physical media libraries, seem to believe that this is the only true way to have reliable access to any given title. I am a well-worn member of this tribe who began collecting VHS tapes in my pre-teen years. I remember happily anticipating each coming week when newly released inventory would be added into the previously-viewed bins at all the local video rental stores. Although I no longer collect VHS tapes, twenty-something-years later and I have a Blu-ray collection of over 8,000 titles. So I know the joy of having a personal collection but also the stresses involved. One of many, trying to move a collection of that size even just across town is ridiculously stressful and time-consuming. I recently moved last October, five months later I have not even packed my entire physical collection at the previous place, let alone began to move them. The ones that I have packed and moved are still in boxes in my garage. Every now and then I go through to find titles and it's time consuming and inconvenient. Now it seems that I've gone on to a personal tangent but there was a reason for this as well: to illustrate that I am also a lover of the home video format and an avid collector of movies regardless of their quality, merit or prestige. I've always been one to believe that the more trashy and questionable the subject matter of films makes them tend to disappear and those should be sought after to keep from vanishing- if they ever even make it to streaming. Regardless, I have a ton of the Hollywood-blockbuster-franchise type as well. You can never really know what will find it's way to streaming and what will be blacklisted or disappear entirely, indefinitely. This brings me to my final point: the discs we own are in no way at all, impenetrable to being recalled or the equivalent of having the license revoked. These discs are played within our Blu-ray players. These players are filled with technology that's licensed to the manufacturer of the disc player through licensing agreements. They contain certain DRM lockouts as well as region exemptions based on location, not to mention that they sometimes require certain upgrades to continue working, like upgraded HDMI cords compatible with new DRM encrypted technology to even transfer the video to the screen. There are so many digital walls to climb: format and file type ownership, compression methods or even reading the disc in order to locate the files written on it. There are license agreements just to open the disc, period. A lot of these are owned by Sony, who I believe still owns a big portion of the Blu-ray technology. So here's my question: what if those of us who have amassed these huge media libraries for our personal enjoyment, soon find that our disc players won't read or open the files? That because the structure for or the protocols for Blu-ray players reading the files have been altered so that none of the discs are operational any longer. Then it appears that we have just a bunch of expensive cardboard packaging with no actual media whatsoever. Everyone talks about digital rights vanishing but what if our physical media rights can also be taken away just as easily? [** All it takes is one hardware update to shut it all down. Sure, we could rip all the files and save them on a server but that requires massive amounts of storage, not to mention all the bonus features or alternate cuts of the film. Thus it becomes even more tedious. Nor does this begin to consider the high cost of SSD drives or the impracticality, due to hardware failures of HDD. **] I never hear anyone discussing this and it always is a point of frustration for me. It's not as if it's impossible or even unlikely. If studios are losing more money and they decide they want to make money off their entire back catalog, again, so they shut down all disc access to make people repurchase titles to watch them on a per per view payment plan. Sure I've just taken it to the worst-case-dystopian-evil-capitalist-conspiracy-scenario BUT it's not that far of a stretch is it?


** Added after posting original comment.
 
Last edited:
N

ncklwlss

Audiophyte
As of today, at 67 years old and an audio/video buff since 1975, I have never-ever watched a show or movie on a streaming service. Just don't cut it for me. (I have thousands of shows and movies on hard drives from the best possible source...dont ask)
If I had too though...I would buy the discs. No substitute for that source.
As someone who doesn't buy physical media, I don't see how your opinion could be relevant. It strikes me as rather, well, dumb.
 
isolar8001

isolar8001

Audioholic General
As someone who doesn't buy physical media, I don't see how your opinion could be relevant. It strikes me as rather, well, dumb.
I have no idea what your post even said, nor will I read it.....ever hear of a paragraph ?
You really think anyone is going to read your half page long , 30,000 word blotch of text ?
So...you enter the realm of dumb.
 
WaynePflughaupt

WaynePflughaupt

Audioholic Samurai
As someone who doesn't buy physical media, I don't see how your opinion could be relevant. It strikes me as rather, well, dumb.
Since you didn’t figure it out on your own, allow me to help: You’ve landed at a Forum where physical media is very popular.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
This is an expert writeup...
Here is your post, but with paragraph breaks. This makes it a lot easier to read.

This is an expert writeup on the increasingly problematic strategies of video streaming providers but what really is the answer to media ownership? In the streaming scenario, you're at the whim of whatever a certain service has licensed agreements for. You cannot own any individual title, nor its catalog at large but save a limited number of items to a device or cloud-based retrieval service. This is similar to the traditional cable viewing option, except you can record a fixed amount of items to a DVR enabled cable receiver. These streaming subscriptions, like monthly cable or satellite television services, will always have an updating and rotating list of movies and television programs available at any given time. I think people are mostly used to this kind of system.

The only issue I see with this is the fact of competing services being owned by providers or networks or studios that own huge back catalogs of entertainment IP's. It now seems more than not, that each studio or entertainment property has its own streaming service. Even among boutique Blu-ray retailers there are dedicated streaming services for streaming those niche titles they release on disk. I never really understood why Arrow or Criterion would need a separate standalone streaming service until I realized it's not for their main customers, it is for the other people who don't want to commit to owning the discs.

If this is the case, which it appears to be, the titles have already been scanned for digital streaming, why not include digital copy as part of their premium boxed offerings? I'd bet it's because there's still a percentage of people who will pay for the streaming service for those films for the mere convenience of not having to locate the physical copy, take out the disc from the packaging, put it into the player, go through all the menus, etc.. So they found a way they can double up on some money. I'm sure some of those movies are terribly expensive to restore and get up to the quality demanded by today's viewer and many might not be a financial home run for these small companies every time. I say let them do what they will with their product, free market right?

My point is: even the niche studios that release cult films haven't disassociated themselves from video streaming. I can't say for certain but maybe some of them might be seeing sales diminishing and are moving toward a more robust streaming situation. Or maybe their sales on physical media is higher than ever and just appreciate a second revenue source and an added avenue for people to enjoy their product. [This is going a little bit longer than I had imagined but bear with me, I do have a point.]

The problem really is with the individual titles that we choose to buy through a standalone service like iTunes, Google, Vudu or even through Comcast video-on-demand. These digital copies which we've paid full price and should expect to own indefinitely, doesn't always seem to be the case. For example, just recently PlayStation decided it was going to remove certain programming from its platform, even when expressly purchased by users. The access to a selection of television shows would have been removed but I believe Sony has now changed direction on this; don't bash me over this, I may be wrong. This is not new, as people have been complaining about books being removed from their Kindle devices or music missing from their iTunes library for years now. Predictably because of licensing agreements that had expired or failed to be renewed.

So the age old question, as it seems, queries once more: who owns our digital purchases? Those who have devoted their time, energy and finances towards obtaining personal physical media libraries, seem to believe that this is the only true way to have reliable access to any given title. I am a well-worn member of this tribe who began collecting VHS tapes in my pre-teen years. I remember happily anticipating each coming week when newly released inventory would be added into the previously-viewed bins at all the local video rental stores. Although I no longer collect VHS tapes, twenty-something-years later and I have a Blu-ray collection of over 8,000 titles.

So I know the joy of having a personal collection but also the stresses involved. One of many, trying to move a collection of that size even just across town is ridiculously stressful and time-consuming. I recently moved last October, five months later I have not even packed my entire physical collection at the previous place, let alone began to move them. The ones that I have packed and moved are still in boxes in my garage. Every now and then I go through to find titles and it's time consuming and inconvenient. Now it seems that I've gone on to a personal tangent but there was a reason for this as well: to illustrate that I am also a lover of the home video format and an avid collector of movies regardless of their quality, merit or prestige.

I've always been one to believe that the more trashy and questionable the subject matter of films makes them tend to disappear and those should be sought after to keep from vanishing- if they ever even make it to streaming. Regardless, I have a ton of the Hollywood-blockbuster-franchise type as well. You can never really know what will find it's way to streaming and what will be blacklisted or disappear entirely, indefinitely.

This brings me to my final point: the discs we own are in no way at all, impenetrable to being recalled or the equivalent of having the license revoked. These discs are played within our Blu-ray players. These players are filled with technology that's licensed to the manufacturer of the disc player through licensing agreements. They contain certain DRM lockouts as well as region exemptions based on location, not to mention that they sometimes require certain upgrades to continue working, like upgraded HDMI cords compatible with new DRM encrypted technology to even transfer the video to the screen. There are so many digital walls to climb: format and file type ownership, compression methods or even reading the disc in order to locate the files written on it. There are license agreements just to open the disc, period. A lot of these are owned by Sony, who I believe still owns a big portion of the Blu-ray technology.

So here's my question: what if those of us who have amassed these huge media libraries for our personal enjoyment, soon find that our disc players won't read or open the files? That because the structure for or the protocols for Blu-ray players reading the files have been altered so that none of the discs are operational any longer. Then it appears that we have just a bunch of expensive cardboard packaging with no actual media whatsoever. Everyone talks about digital rights vanishing but what if our physical media rights can also be taken away just as easily? [** All it takes is one hardware update to shut it all down. Sure, we could rip all the files and save them on a server but that requires massive amounts of storage, not to mention all the bonus features or alternate cuts of the film. Thus it becomes even more tedious. Nor does this begin to consider the high cost of SSD drives or the impracticality, due to hardware failures of HDD. **]

I never hear anyone discussing this and it always is a point of frustration for me. It's not as if it's impossible or even unlikely. If studios are losing more money and they decide they want to make money off their entire back catalog, again, so they shut down all disc access to make people repurchase titles to watch them on a per per view payment plan. Sure I've just taken it to the worst-case-dystopian-evil-capitalist-conspiracy-scenario BUT it's not that far of a stretch is it?


** Added after posting original comment.


As for the content of your post, I would think it would be very difficult to disable a blu-ray disc. There are ways to make players incapable of playing some blu-rays, but that is a player problem, not a disc problem. Just get a good player and don't allow it any internet access if you are really worried about that.
 
isolar8001

isolar8001

Audioholic General
Now that I read his post...kinda sorry I did.
Nobody is ever going to "disable" disc players.
Hard drive space is dirt cheap. Have no idea what he is blathering on about concerning that topic.
 
BoredSysAdmin

BoredSysAdmin

Audioholic Slumlord
I can't be bothered to read all that, but I will say my opinion anyhow:

Streaming profitability is highly complex but more complex than the blockbuster model.
There are many aspects to it, from content licensing costs, which are purposefully prohibitively high (to reduce profits for the "competition), platform ease of use (including new content discovery—Netflix spent a literal fortune to optimize this issue alone), cost of the underlying technology, cost of internet traffic, staffing, and hiring efficiencies, and many, many more which I've even remotely touched.

Massive growth in the number of streaming services has led to inevitable content siloing, general cost increases for consumers, and reduced convenience, which, again, caused, in effect, a very expected rise in copyright infringement. That, by the way, isn't a pricing problem but, again, a convenience one. Ask any "pirate" how much money they spent on their home storage servers - these costs could've easily fueled subscription costs for years. Still, they would continue to degrade in everything, including content selection, original content quality, streaming quality, and convenience.

/rant
 
M

Mr._Clark

Audioholic Samurai
There are those who believe optical disc players aren't long for this home theater hobby. Streaming seems like the obvious successor, but it's only going to get more expensive for a service that's demonstrably worse than disc.
Is it a good time for physical media to make a comeback in home video?

Preference for movie disc is presently only a dedicated niche that includes film director Christopher Nolan and he's been vocal about his support for the medium lately. I like to think the market can save it from oblivion. Since the big studios are losing box office revenue, they should be reluctant to end disc sales, even it is just thin sliver of a film's revenue pie.

Personally, I think physical media should be the real choice of patriotic Americans!
I'm a Blu Ray believer due to my experience with inconsistent streaming audio quality.

In the past I've tried watching part of a movie streaming, then re-watched the same section of the movie from a Blue Ray. In several cases the Blu Ray audio was noticeably better in a back-to-back comparison. I'll concede that the streaming audio was not noticeably substandard when I initially streamed it and I would not have noticed if I hadn't played the Blue Ray version right after the streaming version.

I'm not sure why, but the streaming version was missing somewhat subtle background audio in some cases. This missing content was not readily apparent until I played the Blu Ray and realized it wasn't there in the streaming version. This may not be a common issue. I only tried a streaming vs Blu Ray comparison a few times, and I have not tried it in some time.

Of course, Blu Ray is not magic. If the original was not well done, putting it on a Blu Ray won't fix it. On the other hand, some Blue Rays are well done.

I bought Lawrence of Arabia (1080p) on Blue Ray and it is quite amazing. The original was filmed using Super Panavison 70. In my opinion, this withstood the test of time. My understanding is that the original film-to-digital scan was done in 8K so the UHD Blu Ray is not just an upscale of 1080. One of these days I'll upgrade my TVs and buy the UHD Blu Ray.

Having said that, I do watch quite a bit of streaming content. Even though I'm a Blu Ray "believer" many movies just aren't worth it.
 
T

TankTop5

Audioholic General
I really wish I could get blue rays of my favorite streaming TV shows. Or at the least if you could temporarily download uncompressed version to watch. Lots of great action shows where action scenes are tough to watch like the new season of Halo
 
isolar8001

isolar8001

Audioholic General
I really wish I could get blue rays of my favorite streaming TV shows. Or at the least if you could temporarily download uncompressed version to watch. Lots of great action shows where action scenes are tough to watch like the new season of Halo
Halo actually is on 4K Bluray and looks incredible.....season 2 should be coming.
Which is good, because even from file, season 2 looks awful streaming.

Others really should be available, but aren't.....Foundation really really needs a disc release.
They want those subscribers !!
 
T

TankTop5

Audioholic General
Halo actually is on 4K Bluray and looks incredible.....season 2 should be coming.
Which is good, because even from file, season 2 looks awful streaming.

Others really should be available, but aren't.....Foundation really really needs a disc release.
They want those subscribers !!
Foundation for sure! I feel like Apple is the best streaming service, but still lacking far behind Blu-ray. Actually Apple and Disney are best and everything else is horrendous
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
I am sticking to physical media largely vs relying on streaming, but do use streaming to see stuff I want to buy somewhat. I do wonder where the optical disc players go down the line, shame Oppo exited....
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
Wayde are you sure you are not seeing the effects of new file normalization standards? Both EBU and AES have introduced new standards for audio levels (LUFs) for audio streaming. This is similar to broadcast levels which have to be normalized to EBU-128, which is the same as the AES broadcast standards. All files for broadcast have to be normalized to that standard, or at least should be.

The streaming Internet providers have provided compelling evidence that streamed audio levels need to be normalized, so we now have EBU-r and AES 77. Unfortunately they are different. So far Dolby has been enforcing it via their licensing agreements for Atmos streams. AES 77 is 18 LUF. EBU-r is a few LUF quieter.
I am pretty sure that the BPO is following EBU-r in their Atmos stream, and actually on the recently released Atmos discs.

I am pretty certain there is going to be enforcing of this across the board. So it looks like AES 77 will be the standard for North American originated streams, but may be not. There really should have been agreement on this.

This is going to cause issues as some devices do not have enough gian for these streams. Cell phones and Alexa devices immediately come to mind.
For HT, it is going to bring signal to noise issues to the forefront, and a huge level difference between solid and streamed media. From what I can tell this is already underway.

I am going to put together an article about all this as it is a complex issue. I have had to understand this issue as I still do some work for others that will, and may be, distributed over the NET. So I now have to take note of broadcast and streaming normalizations of Wav. files.
As I quickly scanned your post, I missed the r- I thought you had written 'steaming Internet providers' and was ready to agree. I guess I still could if you had omitted the r.

The lack of standardization is one of the reasons I'm glad I won't be doing AV work much longer. To be honest, I never was as interested in video as audio and if I can just do audio, that would be OK.

The market is getting what it wanted- no effort/no hardware/no storage space required viewing material.
 

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