Not to beat a dead horse...

[JohnA]

I just needed to throw my $.02 in....

This whole Bose thing...everyone is entitled to their opinion and own personal listening preference. If someone likes Bose...so be it. If folks like Monster, so be it. If someone likes Vandersteen, Axiom, B&W, Jamo, or DIY so be it. If they like solid silver speaker cables that cost $20,000...so be it. It is their life and their money. I personally don't like Bose, but I'm not going to flame someone just because they have Bose. Will I try to educate them...sure. Will they change...who knows and who cares. It is their life and if they think Bose is the best thing since color TV, good for them. People need to drop this whole thing...heck there is less debate between FORD and Chevy then Bose and everyone else. Give it a rest.

 

[Resident Loser]

No bias intended I'm sure...

If someone likes Bose...so be it...I personally don't like Bose, but I'm not going to flame someone just because they have Bose...

...so far so good...well, maybe except for the near subliminal punctuation of "Bose, Bose, Bose"...reminds me of the natives in the original "King Kong"...doing some chumming perhaps?

Will I try to educate them...sure.

...well, so much for good intentions...I'm curious, when precisely did you toddle down from on high to impart to us lesser mortals your "wisdom"?

jimHJJ(...a little left-handed, rabble rousing perhaps?...)

 

[JohnA]

...well, so much for good intentions...I'm curious, when precisely did you toddle down from on high to impart to us lesser mortals your "wisdom"?

jimHJJ(...a little left-handed, rabble rousing perhaps?...)

It is a good intention to educate people (who go by the marketing that they read or hear) on what you get with Bose for the price and what else is on the market for the same price or less...but after all is said and done, if they want Bose who am I to stop them. The point is that for the money spent on a Bose system you could get a better sounding system for the same price or even less.

 

[Resident Loser]

Well, I understand your premise...

...so please understand mine...

If every so often, I posted something negative about HT...how it's ruined two-channel gear, how it's affected the livelyhood of folks employed by movie theaters and the support industries or how CDs and SACDs are all part of a scheme to profiteer off of an existing catalog that has been bought and paid for many times over...how the multiple formats are all part of the "planned obsolescence" factor of the same scam or how it's generally not all that it's cracked up to be on many levels or how paying $2k+ for speakers and THEN needing to go for a sub to fill in those bottom two octaves or so is asinine...and yada, yada, yada...theres a wealth of what many consider "prime meat" in any hobby...it would get pretty old, real quick.

Except for wire, eutectic solders and the like, I really don't go after much...I certainly don't go around extolling the virtues of my gear at the expense of someone elses...in fact I usually avoid any mention of my speakers because I fully know what I'm in for, even though I may consider such comments the result of blind, pig ignorance.

Whenever I do try to explain how much time, effort and energy I have spent setting up my system so that it has withstood the test of time, I'm told it was a waste or I could have done better or I'm just full of it...When I explain how there are legitimate engineering principles coupled with what maybe some psychoacoustic parameters involved, I'm told I'm parroting the party line...except for one thing...it's a hobby, sound and music an avocation and quite frankly I think I've done quite well. I also think I've learned quite a bit in the process...Can I do the math and produce equations? No. Can I explain a Chebychev or Butterworth filter. Again, no. Can I produce charts and graphs? Well, actually I can...at least what is related to the many hours spent doing the environmental treatment and subsequent EQing of my listening room..and it was done all within the constraints of WAF; even the right reflecting-wall construction.

While I might inform folks as to the pitfalls of the 3-2-1 System and it's lack of interconnectivity or warn them of proprietary connectors in general and I might take issue with the single, summing sub or other bass module, I would never consider it "educating", which in my mind has a higher connotation...I'll share my experiences, answer questions when I can. I never say "brand X" is best or "brand Y" s*cks...Why? Because there is always an exception to the rule and I know I haven't heard every piece of gear or every possible permutation in concert thereof...and the biggest thing, I don't have your ears.

jimHJJ(...just some thoughts...)

 

[mulester7]

"just some thoughts"

.....and some outstanding thoughts, Jim, imo....I think it's an individual's perception based on the experience-interaction-level that counts, as to what's good audio/video equipment, and I sincerely wish I could be pleased with lesser equipment than I currently have.....

 

[Privateer]

I do not think it is right when people buy bose at a retailer because they are forced into it. I do not like it when people can waste $3000 on a bose system that has trouble hitting 13KHz at a -20db.

 

[Resident Loser]

Was there...

I do not think it is right when people buy bose at a retailer because they are forced into it. I do not like it when people can waste $3000 on a bose system that has trouble hitting 13KHz at a -20db.

...a gun to their head...folks go to car dealerships and are "forced" to go for undercoating and other unwanted options...me, I walk...

Certainly wouldn't spend $3k on a closed-end system...most likely wouldn't spend that figure on a source, receiver and speakers...I think $1200-1500 is probably in the ballpark...for stereo. Wouldn't do HTIB...actually haven't yet and probably won't be doin' HT at all...and really what do you need for HT?...20Hz-20kHz? For what? Dialog that has limited bandwidth? You need some bottom for the mechanical lizards and enough HF to help you localize the laser beams...12-13kHz is probably sufficient.

Like it or not, their marketing is dynamite, they are out to make a buck. Can you do better for the price...I'll bet so, but it's that brand recognition, the plug'n'play aspect and the WAF that counts.

jimHJJ(...have a nice weekend...)

 

[Mitchell Torres]

Excellent post jim. I dont claim to know diddly about HT and speakers and this or that hi tech mumbo jumbo...I want something that will sound good to my ears. If I like something and want to spend a load of $$ on it thats my doing and my right to do so, no matter what others oppinions may be...If I like it then thats whats important not if you like it.

I do not like it when people can waste $3000 on a bose system that has trouble hitting 13KHz at a -20db.

Sounds like paycheck envy the operative word seems to be "can". I was once asked why I put together such an expensive home PC...my answer was..."Because I can." If you cant dont insult those who can and have chosen to.

Zi End

 

[JohnA]

Resident Loser...

Now I think we understand each other a little better ...Ok, I won't use the term "educate", how about "informing individuals of other options that are available to them and allow the individual to determine what they like best" because after all "I don't have your ears" or room set up for that matter.

 

[Privateer]

Sounds like paycheck envy the operative word seems to be "can".

Paycheck envy? My center speaker is probably worth more than your entire audio system.

I was once asked why I put together such an expensive home PC...my answer was..."Because I can." If you cant dont insult those who can and have chosen to.[/

What are you running?

Certainly wouldn't spend $3k on a closed-end system...most likely wouldn't spend that figure on a source, receiver and speakers...I think $1200-1500 is probably in the ballpark...for stereo. Wouldn't do HTIB...actually haven't yet and probably won't be doin' HT at all...and really what do you need for HT?...20Hz-20kHz? For what? Dialog that has limited bandwidth? You need some bottom for the mechanical lizards and enough HF to help you localize the laser beams...12-13kHz is probably sufficient.

So why would you blow all that money on bose when for half the price you can have speakers that play louder, cleaner, and still hit the 20Hz to 20kHz.

 

[Mitchell Torres]

Not to start an argument....you are right your center speaker probably does exceed the price of my ENTIRE set up....and? Congratulations. Why did you go spend almost $2,000 on a center speaker? I am sure there are many people here who would think thats a wee bit much...but no one is ridiculingyour decision. ***OH MY GOD I just realized I am typing like mulester...sorry I had to ***

What I have is of no concern, I am not in a pissing contest with every joe on the blockto have the better or even the best. I buy what I want to make me happy...as do you it seems.

So there, everyone has there own preferences, you nor I are anyone better than the next to tell someone what they can and cannot like / do, unless its your kids



Danke

C'est La Vie

 

[Privateer]

Not to start an argument....you are right your center speaker probably does exceed the price of my ENTIRE set up....and? Congratulations. Why did you go spend almost $2,000 on a center speaker?

Then why would you put in "must be paycheck envy"? By the way my center is worth $7500CND.

What I have is of no concern,

For your PC.

 

[Mitchell Torres]

well if you arrrgh gonna quote me...

Sounds like paycheck envy

see that smilie thar at the end...that means joke, smile, harharhar.

[sarcasm] And I guess your PC is better than mine too. [/sarcasm]


really Privateer...relax, cant you have an even keeled debate without going over the deep end and getting all salty dogged and insultary.


man I forgot how much I like pirate words!

 

[miklorsmith]

Cool!

That's awesome. You're awesome. Man, I wish I could afford $7,500 for my whole stereo! You are definitely the alpha male listener here. Wow! $7,500.

It's kind of hard to believe the rest of us even think we listen to music. You must have a hard time relating to others and their limitations. They say the smallest dog has the biggest bark, but that's definitely not true here. You big dog!

I've never even seen a system worth as much as yours must be. Man, could you describe how it sounds for us? I don't think there is anywhere in my whole TOWN I can check out something that nice. If I can't hear it, maybe you could just tell me again how righeous it is. I NEED the help.

I bet your car rules too. And your house! Man - it must be something to behold. Your friends must be soooo jealous. I know I am and I'm not even your friend! You must be a real estate investor or a brain surgeon or a rocket scientist or a CEO or I don't even know what else to have so much dough. Man I wish I was as cool as you.

 

[Sheep]

wow

hahaha, that was a funny post. but lets not start another fire, like the one in st.louis, jees thats big.

anywho, I agree with john A. Yes, money could be better spent, but, its not are call to say, or judge. I may have, well been a D I C K, and I apologise. Jim actually has a point though, in music listening, you usually don't use full bandwidth (20hz - 20khz). But, if for les money you can get full, then why not. Its like buying 1 thing by its self, when buying two together is less... if that makes sense. I guess I just contradicted myself...

anywho, hopefully this topic can cool down. Throw on some easy listening, like journey, and just sit back, and enjoy the frequency's.

sheep.

 

[Privateer]

What is with everyone, people ask me questions and I answer them, if my answers hurt or harm you then cease asking questions.

 

[miklorsmith]

Not really

Nobody asked you how much your stereo or parts of it cost. It isn't really relevant to discussions on the forum. The difficulty others have with your posts is your confrontational, superior attitude. It doesn't engender the positive feelings people seek spending time here.

There are a lot of people on the forums that have a lot of experience in audio. Many of them take special pride in their systems, many of whom don't have your means or choose not to spend as much of their limited, discretionary income on stereo gear. They are generally OK with this. However, your intimations and outright attacks about their systems creates an adversarial atmosphere and paints you as an elitist jackass.

I'm actually not trying to be mean. But really, try to see the other side of these posts. Gain a little perspective. $7,500 would feed a kid in Africa for like 3 years or would pay a lot of people's rent for a year. Try to look from the receiving end. The posts coming back your way will be much friendlier, I promise.

 

[Privateer]

see that smilie thar at the end...that means joke, smile, harharhar.

Sorry im not up to par with your little graphics.

 

[mulester7]

"My center speaker is probably worth more than your entire audio system"

.....there it ain't.....

 

[Resident Loser]

Re: "What are you running?"...

...rum, guns and Cuban cigars...ooops! no, no, no, it's a joke Big Brother...

Anyway...a Philips 212 Electronic TT e/w a Stanton 881s cart, which is sitting in(on) and custom support fitted with AudioTechnica self-leveling,shock-absorber feet...a BSR Macdonald/Heathkit changer e/w a Stanton 681EEE/conical stylus(for my 78s)...My TEAC A-650 finally gave up the ghost and has been temporarily replaced by a Marantz SD-4250 twin-well unit...A TEAC A-3440 simul-synch four channel RTR...Until recently a Pioneer TX-9100 AM/FM tuner, a Pioneer SA-9100 integrated amp(both of which are down at present...the tuner has some MPX problems and the amp a self-triggering protection circuit gremlin...probably will be dealt with over the winter months)...in place of them I'm using an Onkyo mini-system(MC-35TECH), the 3CD changer for CDs(in place of the JVC DVD/CD player I was using...it's now plugged into a compact GE selector switch along with my SONY vcr and into my Philips/Magnavox tee-vee...see no HT...) and the tuner/amp(their description) as a head unit...since there are no pre-outs, it's feeding out of the headphone jack(!!!oh, mon dieu!!! too lazy to build a dividing network) into an SAE Mark2700B half octave EQ...into the HK Citation 16 and powering the Bose 901-lls...I also have a pair of STAX SR-44s and a pair of Sennheiser 212s...Used to run a Sound Concepts SD-550 feeding the power amp section of the integrated as part of a ambience recovery scheme with Bose 301s as the rears(hafta' keep that "sonic signature")...they too were EQd, this time with an Audio Control one-octave unit.

It may seem like a mish-mash of ancient stuff, but, when the integrated went south and before I got the Onkyo stuff, I could run my TT through the smaller EQ to mimic the RIAA curve, then thru the amplifier section of the RTR and viola!...music...

Well, you asked...

$7500!!! Yikes, for mechanical lizards and laser-beams??? For about a 3k wide bandwidth!!!

So why would you blow all that money on bose when for half the price you can have speakers that play louder, cleaner, and still hit the 20Hz to 20kHz.

Actually, for about $1k, I think a 2-channel system that would provide better than 90-95 percent of much more expensive systems could be built...

Recall, that Onkyo mini I mentioned earler...I did some futzing around before I grafted it into my main stereo...I had to loosely stuff the speaker ports, invert the enclosures(a la Mission) and used some arts'n'crafts felt to tame some of the high-freqs and reflections...a little judicious use of the tone controls and hey...pretty d@mned good...I'm thinkin' a Polk 50W sub would fill in the blanks, obviating the use of any bass-boost...and since I have a problem with the single-sub-summing of bass freqs, I'd actually go for two of 'em...so there's 50Wpc on the bottom + 20Wpc for mids and highs...given my inefficient 901s do around 85db with only a 2.5W output, I don't think any more power would be required...anywhere from $600-800 even at MSRP...downside: no phono...

Of course the is no real potential for expansion, but for a simple stereo set-up it would do real good IMHO.

Then there are other possibilities...maybe an Onkyo TX-8511...perfectly respectable but w/o pre-outs or "tape-mon" pretty much a dead-end expansion-wise...

The Marantz SR-4320 has pre-outs but no true "tape-mon"...no biggie if you don't need it...their PM-7200 is a real disappointment in that it has no "pre-outs" so no expansion with this one...otherwise very promising, you can even run it as a 25Wpc class A amp...good connectivity tape-wise...

Denon's DRA-685...Nice...80Wpc..."pre-outs/pwr-in", phono AND true "tape-mon" plus Zone 2 capabpility...

HKs HK-3480, also nice IMO...120RMS per and lot's of connectivity...

Couple any of these with a decent CDP and some speakers...I think some Bose Acoustimass might be a good starting point, maybe Polks... and for around a grand...bada-bing, bada-boom...music.

jimHJJ(...feel free to pick nits...)