No sound on most TV channels Denon 4000X

[Acoustat]

I am stumped. While out of the room the other night I lost sound on
the TV station I was watching. My wife could have inadvertently screwed a setting
but doesn't remember doing anything with the remote.
I thought today the problem remedied itself, only to find I was on a different channel
and when I went up a channel, I lost sound again.

Here's what works (I've tried DTV customer service already)
ALL channels work when the Denon A/V is off.
HDMI cable carries the signal into the A/V and out to ARC/HDMI #1 on the TV perfectly (A/V pwr off).
Local channel 13 works with the A/V on, skip up to the weather 361 good sound, (362 TWC no good) skip up to music channels
all those I've tried seem to pass through with the A/V on just fine.
Ch 200, 201 and 203 work, but channels between like 202 do not.

The channels that do not work, there's a low pass or some sort of signal that still diverts to the sub woofer
and the picture is fine on all channels regardless of sound issues.
Other channels probably work that are not listed above, but you get the idea...

What does not work…
Local ch 3,8 and 11, (13 works) Ch 202 CNN, HLN, 204 ESPN and many many others or most really, carry no sound signal
except a low rumble into the sub woofer, and all audible signals the woofer can handle.
The Weather Ch, one of my favs, ch 362 no sound

What I've done…
Checked all settings I can think of (but why one channel 202 no sound but 203 is perfect? )
Swapped out HDMI cables for the Blu Ray player which works just fine. They both work fine.

I swapped inputs on the TV the HDMI #2 (no ARC)

Reset button on the DTV receiver as well as unplugging AC and coax.

Could this be a sound card in the Denon A/V?

 

[lovinthehd]

Since the unit that you're changing channels in is the varying part of the input and the problem is only certain channels I'd tend to think your D* box is having issues, rather than the avr or even cable....is it a plain box or dvr? I've had weird stuff happen when the dvr type box starts to have hard drive issues....

ps Might want to just go thru the audio output settings in the D* box....

 

[everettT]

What are your settings for video output on the dtv box, if original is selected it's possible but not likely that it a handshake issue. More than likely as stated above its your dtv receiver.

 

[TLS Guy]

I am stumped. While out of the room the other night I lost sound on
the TV station I was watching. My wife could have inadvertently screwed a setting
but doesn't remember doing anything with the remote.
I thought today the problem remedied itself, only to find I was on a different channel
and when I went up a channel, I lost sound again.

Here's what works (I've tried DTV customer service already)
ALL channels work when the Denon A/V is off.
HDMI cable carries the signal into the A/V and out to ARC/HDMI #1 on the TV perfectly (A/V pwr off).
Local channel 13 works with the A/V on, skip up to the weather 361 good sound, (362 TWC no good) skip up to music channels
all those I've tried seem to pass through with the A/V on just fine.
Ch 200, 201 and 203 work, but channels between like 202 do not.

The channels that do not work, there's a low pass or some sort of signal that still diverts to the sub woofer
and the picture is fine on all channels regardless of sound issues.
Other channels probably work that are not listed above, but you get the idea...

What does not work…
Local ch 3,8 and 11, (13 works) Ch 202 CNN, HLN, 204 ESPN and many many others or most really, carry no sound signal
except a low rumble into the sub woofer, and all audible signals the woofer can handle.
The Weather Ch, one of my favs, ch 362 no sound

What I've done…
Checked all settings I can think of (but why one channel 202 no sound but 203 is perfect? )
Swapped out HDMI cables for the Blu Ray player which works just fine. They both work fine.

I swapped inputs on the TV the HDMI #2 (no ARC)

Reset button on the DTV receiver as well as unplugging AC and coax.

Could this be a sound card in the Denon A/V?

I don't recall we have had this problem before. However I think I have found the answer. This is a bug in the Direct TV system especially their Genie system. They are not admitting to it, but telling their customers to use a component connection.

Apparently this is a conflict between SD and HD. The bug is related to improper HDCP codes. The codes for video and audio are different and have different handshakes.

The problem comes to light after viewing a SD channel and then switching back to HD. The audio from some channels is lost like you experience. It seems very hard to get the audio back after this occurs.

https://nhlifefree.com/2013/06/26/directv-hr-34-genie-how-to-fix-the-no-sound-on-some-channels-problem-it-is-an-hdmi-sdhd-conflict/

https://nhlifefree.com/2013/06/26/reasons-26-to-3-of-the-1001-reasons-i-really-really-hate-directv/

I would push Direct TV to fix the problem or threaten to cancel service for breach of contract.

I think we may see more of this as studios and broadcasters transition to HDMI 2.2 and 4K protocols.

I belong to the CEDIA professional forum and I'm starting to see posts on this topic. Unfortunately HDMI 2.2 protocols are not properly backwards compatible. Surprise, surprise! One of the big differences is that on the old repeater architecture handshakes take place every 5 seconds. On HDMI 2.2 4k it is every 5 msec. As I understand it this is causing no end of trouble and there seems to be problems surfacing with legacy equipment on program that is 4 K.

One wag predicting all this will cause much more trouble for consumers than pirates. Somehow I don't doubt that prediction.

It is just possible that the stations in question are starting to transition to HDMI 2.2 4K protocols and your three year old receiver does not like them.

Some how I sense a new storm of HDMI issues right around the corner.

 

[Acoustat]

Thanks guys, all very good replies. Appreciate the effort.
TLS, as always, very informative and very helpful. All makes sense.
Just back in town from putting almost 5000 memories on my wife's odometer, wow!
I cannot open the links on my pc, will try the iPad tomorrow.

Just didn't want to leave you hanging all day tomorrow after all your efforts.
So, handshakes are like samplings?

Yes my DTV is a Genie DVR. Should've included that to begin with, sorry.

Will let you know when I know more. Thanks again

 

[Acoustat]

Since the unit that you're changing channels in is the varying part of the input and the problem is only certain channels I'd tend to think your D* box is having issues, rather than the avr or even cable....is it a plain box or dvr? I've had weird stuff happen when the dvr type box starts to have hard drive issues....

ps Might want to just go thru the audio output settings in the D* box....

Exactly! That's what I told tech support at DTV when I called.
I asked him how an AVR or cable could discern between channels from the same satellite and always the same channels…?

His answer was that they only guarantee sound from the DVR to the TV, and since that
is working without issue, they have to turn me away, to the AVR company if swapping
out for a good HDMI cable did not remedy the problem.

I insisted that since a cable cannot discern channels since the same channels were always
the same, that the AVR could also not discern channels, and that the problem has to be from
the connection, filters, and what not in the circuitry that the DVR box had to be the problem.
I was hoping they could walk me through some setting or another, and get a ticket started.
Then he wanted to sell me on a protection plan for all my other equipment since I'm paying
extra already, for a protection plan on their equipment
LOL, the nerve.

 

[Acoustat]

What are your settings for video output on the dtv box, if original is selected it's possible but not likely that it a handshake issue. More than likely as stated above its your dtv receiver.

No doubt. Here's the settings I found. Hope this is what you were asking for.
Native: ON
Screen Format: Original
Bar Color: Black
HDMI Control: ON

 

[Acoustat]

I don't recall we have had this problem before. However I think I have found the answer. This is a bug in the Direct TV system especially their Genie system. They are not admitting to it, but telling their customers to use a component connection.

Apparently this is a conflict between SD and HD. The bug is related to improper HDCP codes. The codes for video and audio are different and have different handshakes.

The problem comes to light after viewing a SD channel and then switching back to HD. The audio from some channels is lost like you experience. It seems very hard to get the audio back after this occurs.

https://nhlifefree.com/2013/06/26/directv-hr-34-genie-how-to-fix-the-no-sound-on-some-channels-problem-it-is-an-hdmi-sdhd-conflict/

https://nhlifefree.com/2013/06/26/reasons-26-to-3-of-the-1001-reasons-i-really-really-hate-directv/

I would push Direct TV to fix the problem or threaten to cancel service for breach of contract.

I think we may see more of this as studios and broadcasters transition to HDMI 2.2 and 4K protocols.

I belong to the CEDIA professional forum and I'm starting to see posts on this topic. Unfortunately HDMI 2.2 protocols are not properly backwards compatible. Surprise, surprise! One of the big differences is that on the old repeater architecture handshakes take place every 5 seconds. On HDMI 2.2 4k it is every 5 msec. As I understand it this is causing no end of trouble and there seems to be problems surfacing with legacy equipment on program that is 4 K.

One wag predicting all this will cause much more trouble for consumers than pirates. Somehow I don't doubt that prediction.

It is just possible that the stations in question are starting to transition to HDMI 2.2 4K protocols and your three year old receiver does not like them.

Some how I sense a new storm of HDMI issues right around the corner.

Very interesting about the 4K and 2.2 protocols and issues.

I was able to open those links on the iPad just now, thanks.
Your idea sounds better though, using the Component out.
The link appears to suggest typical RCA (Red and White specifically mentioned) connections.
This is appalling. The signal loss and noise gain would be pathetic.

I will attempt to do the power down while on a SD channel and see if that helps 1st.

2 quick questions TLS Guy…

1. Why does powering up the AVR affect the channels when they were passing through
it just fine with the power Off? It's all HDMI connections…save for circuitry involved
within the AVR that are switched to when powered On.

2. Which better for A/V sound and picture...
I have a USB connection on the back of the DTV DVR doesn't say in or out.
I have a USB input, on the front only, of my AVR (could I use HDMI out to TV from AVR this way?)

Then there's the S video Out on the DTV box, but Denon felt it was even less useful
than a USB input. So rather than having a S video input on the front like the USB, they just omitted
the S video altogether.

So is the USB an option to the Monitor Component Out? Surely the USB would carry a better A/V signal or not?

 

[lovinthehd]

Exactly! That's what I told tech support at DTV when I called.
I asked him how an AVR or cable could discern between channels from the same satellite and always the same channels…?

His answer was that they only guarantee sound from the DVR to the TV, and since that
is working without issue, they have to turn me away, to the AVR company if swapping
out for a good HDMI cable did not remedy the problem.

I insisted that since a cable cannot discern channels since the same channels were always
the same, that the AVR could also not discern channels, and that the problem has to be from
the connection, filters, and what not in the circuitry that the DVR box had to be the problem.
I was hoping they could walk me through some setting or another, and get a ticket started.
Then he wanted to sell me on a protection plan for all my other equipment since I'm paying
extra already, for a protection plan on their equipment
LOL, the nerve.

Customer service in denial....why admit to something when you can blame others? Corporate culture...wish I could subject most corporate leaders to the crap they encourage. Wonder if this has gone further downhill since ATT took over? Just be persistent and now that you have specific examples. I have the whole home thing, think it is pre-genie? but rarely watch SD, but no issues when I do.

 

[TLS Guy]

Very interesting about the 4K and 2.2 protocols and issues.

I was able to open those links on the iPad just now, thanks.
Your idea sounds better though, using the Component out.
The link appears to suggest typical RCA (Red and White specifically mentioned) connections.
This is appalling. The signal loss and noise gain would be pathetic.

I will attempt to do the power down while on a SD channel and see if that helps 1st.

2 quick questions TLS Guy…

1. Why does powering up the AVR affect the channels when they were passing through
it just fine with the power Off? It's all HDMI connections…save for circuitry involved
within the AVR that are switched to when powered On.

2. Which better for A/V sound and picture...
I have a USB connection on the back of the DTV DVR doesn't say in or out.
I have a USB input, on the front only, of my AVR (could I use HDMI out to TV from AVR this way?)

Then there's the S video Out on the DTV box, but Denon felt it was even less useful
than a USB input. So rather than having a S video input on the front like the USB, they just omitted
the S video altogether.

So is the USB an option to the Monitor Component Out? Surely the USB would carry a better A/V signal or not?

In my experience most HDMI issues revolve around the repeater architecture. Now a receiver is a receiving and transmitting device. A TV is and end device. Your Genie DVR is a transmitting device only.

If you connect your Genie to your TV without using the receiver, then only an initial handshake is required, as there is no receiving and transmitting device, just a sending and end device.

Once the receiver enters the equation then repeated handshakes are required, every 5 sec for HDMI 2k 1080p. For 4 K it goes to handshakes every 5 msec. Heaven knows why that is, and I bet this is part of the problem, as the Genie is HDMI 2.2 and supports 4K broadcasts and TVs. Your Denon does not.

Now I bet if you had a 4K HDMI 2.2 receiver you would not have an issue. This is fitting in with what I am hearing from Cedia folks about the backwards compatibility of HDMI 2.2 being to some extent anyway smoke and mirrors.

The other issue is that different receivers implement HDMI differently but should be HDCP compliant. It could well be than another receiver would not have this issue with the Genie.

I also have the Genie system, and that was a story in itself. I'm using an older Marnatz 8003 pre pro that is older than your receiver. Touch wood I have not had the issue you complain of.

Now satellite and cable boxes are not usually HDCP certified. Like Direct TV they only guarantee performance to end devices. The more complicated repeater architecture is not certified and not guaranteed, so it becomes a crap shoot as you are finding out.

If the powering down trick does not work, then I suggest you call Direct TV and talk to customer service and threaten to cancel service. You will then get put through to customer retention, and more likely to get action. Even so you might have to change receivers if you want to keep Direct TV.

You can connect using component cables and the digital optical and coax. However be aware broadcasters can deny service with an analog hookup, so you might not get all channels.

As far as the USB port, this is pretty useless and its only purpose is to connect this device.

 

[Acoustat]

In my experience most HDMI issues revolve around the repeater architecture. Now a receiver is a receiving and transmitting device. A TV is and end device. Your Genie DVR is a transmitting device only.

If you connect your Genie to your TV without using the receiver, then only an initial handshake is required, as there is no receiving and transmitting device, just a sending and end device.

Once the receiver enters the equation then repeated handshakes are required, every 5 sec for HDMI 2k 1080p. For 4 K it goes to handshakes every 5 msec. Heaven knows why that is, and I bet this is part of the problem, as the Genie is HDMI 2.2 and supports 4K broadcasts and TVs. Your Denon does not.

Now I bet if you had a 4K HDMI 2.2 receiver you would not have an issue. This is fitting in with what I am hearing from Cedia folks about the backwards compatibility of HDMI 2.2 being to some extent anyway smoke and mirrors.

The other issue is that different receivers implement HDMI differently but should be HDCP compliant. It could well be than another receiver would not have this issue with the Genie.

I also have the Genie system, and that was a story in itself. I'm using an older Marnatz 8003 pre pro that is older than your receiver. Touch wood I have not had the issue you complain of.

Now satellite and cable boxes are not usually HDCP certified. Like Direct TV they only guarantee performance to end devices. The more complicated repeater architecture is not certified and not guaranteed, so it becomes a crap shoot as you are finding out.

If the powering down trick does not work, then I suggest you call Direct TV and talk to customer service and threaten to cancel service. You will then get put through to customer retention, and more likely to get action. Even so you might have to change receivers if you want to keep Direct TV.

You can connect using component cables and the digital optical and coax. However be aware broadcasters can deny service with an analog hookup, so you might not get all channels.

As far as the USB port, this is pretty useless and its only purpose is to connect this device.

You're pretty daggone awesome ya know!?
So much for USB.

(also pictured here if that helps enlarge it
http://www.audioholics.co.za/products/denon/avrx4000.htm )

^ here's my input/outputs on the AVR back panel.
Top left, to the right of Network, I am using the optical already, from TV out
for lidtening to App and internet browsing on the TV. My LG TV has no HDMI out, crazy I know.
But one for TV and a 2nd one for CD, could I go that route instead of CD, use DTV + Component?

How much quality loss in component over HDMI?

 

[Acoustat]

I sounded confusing there. Let me fix that
"But one for TV and a 2nd one for CD, could I go that route instead of CD, use DTV + Component?"
The AVR has 2 optical inputs, one for CD one for TV out to AVR in + component out.
Isn't HDMI a better picture or not?
At this point, it's kind of my only option I guess, but felt like HDMI was best overal.
Convenient sure, but once hooked up right, it's only the quality that matters, not convenience.

The Denon passes 4K signal through. Don't know if that helps or not.

 

[TLS Guy]

I sounded confusing there. Let me fix that
"But one for TV and a 2nd one for CD, could I go that route instead of CD, use DTV + Component?"
The AVR has 2 optical inputs, one for CD one for TV out to AVR in + component out.
Isn't HDMI a better picture or not?
At this point, it's kind of my only option I guess, but felt like HDMI was best overal.
Convenient sure, but once hooked up right, it's only the quality that matters, not convenience.

The Denon passes 4K signal through. Don't know if that helps or not.

There really is no significant difference for 2 K 1080p with component or HDMI connection in terms of picture quality. There may be on some sets, as the analog connection may be skimped on to lower cost. This is especially true now that few use it and a lot of gear is already not providing for that connection. Coax and TOSLINK do not have the bandwidth for loss less codecs. That is not an issue with Direct TV.

The biggest issue with an analog connection like component is that we are passed the analog sunset, so program makers and distributors do not have to recognize analog connections and can deny service if they don't get the right HDCP codes back. This is not prevalent right now, but I bet it will be.

Passing and processing is a totally different ball game.

 

[TLS Guy]

I'm anxious to see if the Coax or optical gives you sound.

I have been researching this further, and I'm no longer convinced it is a handshake issue. This may be an MPEG-4 issue. US broadcasters have traditionally used MPEG-2, however the FCC and carriers have been pushing for MPEG-4 to save bandwidth. Now MPEG-4 is an evolving standard and we are now at version 31! It seems there are compatibility issues with legacy equipment. It seems we are heading into a new storm of DRM issues.

Further ATT holds a lot of the patents on a lot of MPEG-4 codecs and are involved in lawsuits to protect them, especially with Apple.

It seems TVs are also experiencing your problem, especially Samsung. Samsung are now advertising their TVs as Direct TV ready!

So depending on design, some devices will be able to work with newer versions of MPEG-4 and some won't. In addition AAC plus with MPEG DASH is another headache. Radio stations in the US and Europe are having no end of consumer complains over this. MPR for instance has had to back off with this technology. The BBC have been resolute and told consumers to buy new equipment or go without programing.

So now I'm uncertain if your problem is a HDCP handshake issue or that your receiver is unable to decode the codecs presented.

If the coax or optical works it is a handshake issue. If it does not it is a codec issue.

This is all compounded by the fact that firms keep their cards close to their chests on all of this, which makes this very difficult.

If manufacturers put all this in the spec sheet, I doubt it will help as few will understand it.

As I suspected all of this is heading into a period of chaos, and it will be impossible to predict what will work with what.

 

[Acoustat]

I'm anxious to see if the Coax or optical gives you sound.

I have been researching this further, and I'm no longer convinced it is a handshake issue. This may be an MPEG-4 issue. US broadcasters have traditionally used MPEG-2, however the FCC and carriers have been pushing for MPEG-4 to save bandwidth. Now MPEG-4 is an evolving standard and we are now at version 31! It seems there are compatibility issues with legacy equipment. It seems we are heading into a new storm of DRM issues.

Further ATT holds a lot of the patents on a lot of MPEG-4 codecs and are involved in lawsuits to protect them, especially with Apple.

It seems TVs are also experiencing your problem, especially Samsung. Samsung are now advertising their TVs as Direct TV ready!

So depending on design, some devices will be able to work with newer versions of MPEG-4 and some won't. In addition AAC plus with MPEG DASH is another headache. Radio stations in the US and Europe are having no end of consumer complains over this. MPR for instance has had to back off with this technology. The BBC have been resolute and told consumers to buy new equipment or go without programing.

So now I'm uncertain if your problem is a HDCP handshake issue or that your receiver is unable to decode the codecs presented.

If the coax or optical works it is a handshake issue. If it does not it is a codec issue.

This is all compounded by the fact that firms keep their cards close to their chests on all of this, which makes this very difficult.

If manufacturers put all this in the spec sheet, I doubt it will help as few will understand it.

As I suspected all of this is heading into a period of chaos, and it will be impossible to predict what will work with what.

OK, so the nhlife site with that article from Anura Guruge, says the problem should be fixed
if you switch to a SD ch, power off everything and back up while still on the channel.
I did this, then I tried with DTV on the SD ch power still on, and powered off the AVR,
then, I went as far as selecting an SD ch, powered everything off, then unplugged for 2 minutes
all with the same result as prior, no difference.

Another issue TLS that has shown up, no doubt the same time frame, like a strike of a chime
(also this happened suddenly after no problems continuously since you guys helped me learn the
ropes a bit with my new AVR) but the Optical out, now only works with Apps and browser.

Before this, I could have the TV input selected to DTV, and watch that from DVR into AVR
and hear anything that was on the screen through the Optical if I went into settings on my TV sound out
and changed from TV speaker out (on board speaker on TV playing audio) to Optical out.
EDIT:
also have to select TV Audio input on the Denon switching from CBL/SAT input
All was good, it played all Apps, internet browser audio, DTV/AVR etc…
Now, now the Denon does not recognize any signal from DTV audio or video. I get nothing
when using the Optical out, from DTV, but Apps still work as they always have.

So this should satisfy your curiosity as to how the Optical worked.
Next I'll try the component. Have to put luggage away and will find my cord box in the attic later.
1st, I'm going to see what Denon has to say about it, just to see if they're in the know about the issue at all.

 

[Acoustat]

I got a band aid!!! - Dolby Digital OFF in sound settings.
So I did call Denon. They had heard nothing of the issue. Techs supervisor said to call
DTV, and have them walk me through switching from bitstream to PCM.

Ok I've never claimed to be, and obviously am not a techy.
I've seen bitstream settings on my BluRay player, and I had already been into
what setting I changed that gives me the band aid…that being Dolby Digital.
I just had not changed it to off, because I want to hear stations that provide it.
I just can't tell you the difference in bitstream and PCM, Google time I guess.

Changing from DD to standard sound gives me sound, but with I think SD quality.
Depth appears to be rather flat, to the ears' eye now. Things I've recorded on DVR
now have sound and we can hear them with the AVR on, just rather flat, or is it my imagination?

I will make a youtube video showing the steps I took, as the rep at DTV I spoke with says there
are others with the same issue.

I connected the phone line, and their "engineers" are supposed to send a test signal/packet this week
and if they determine the DTV receiver has a problem (I have my doubts here) then they will replace the box.
If not, probably want me to upgrade or leave the DD turned off.

 

[TLS Guy]

OK, so the nhlife site with that article from Anura Guruge, says the problem should be fixed
if you switch to a SD ch, power off everything and back up while still on the channel.
I did this, then I tried with DTV on the SD ch power still on, and powered off the AVR,
then, I went as far as selecting an SD ch, powered everything off, then unplugged for 2 minutes
all with the same result as prior, no difference.

Another issue TLS that has shown up, no doubt the same time frame, like a strike of a chime
(also this happened suddenly after no problems continuously since you guys helped me learn the
ropes a bit with my new AVR) but the Optical out, now only works with Apps and browser.

Before this, I could have the TV input selected to DTV, and watch that from DVR into AVR
and hear anything that was on the screen through the Optical if I went into settings on my TV sound out
and changed from TV speaker out (on board speaker on TV playing audio) to Optical out.
EDIT:
also have to select TV Audio input on the Denon switching from CBL/SAT input
All was good, it played all Apps, internet browser audio, DTV/AVR etc…
Now, now the Denon does not recognize any signal from DTV audio or video. I get nothing
when using the Optical out, from DTV, but Apps still work as they always have.

So this should satisfy your curiosity as to how the Optical worked.
Next I'll try the component. Have to put luggage away and will find my cord box in the attic later.
1st, I'm going to see what Denon has to say about it, just to see if they're in the know about the issue at all.

Oh dear! Things are getting very nasty indeed. I was wondering when this would first show up. Under the most recent rules programs can have a flag to prevent any output other than HDMI. This is the HDMI forcing rule. We have not had a post about this yet, but yours may well be the first.

I just hope the Direct TV update, (there must have been one) has not disabled the optical out, and the analog outs from your Genie. They are allowed to do that under current rules. I have been on the lookout for the first case.

I would talk to Denon and see if they have a firmware update for this. Sometimes codecs can be changed and added by firmware, but unfortunately usually not.

Unfortunately the law is all on the side of the TV Networks and film studios. They are a paranoid bunch and if they keep this up they will turn legitimate customers away in droves. The pirates always find a loophole. They will just increase the market for pirate copies with all these infernal codes stripped and turn the honest into criminals.

I don't really blame ATT/Direct TV as you can bet they are being forced into this as part of the right to carry. It will spread across the board.

Internet radio has been the first to be thrown into absolute chaos over this. The result over here has been a return to poorer quality streams. It seems there are a lot of Internet radios that can not handle AAC plus also know as HE-AAC. When the customers radios go dead they scream. So when the station backs off then we return to much poorer quality.

I think may be the consumer has to accept a higher rate of obsolescence until all this becomes a much more mature technology, if it ever does.

By the way I have found out that the Direct TV Genie only sends out Bitstream. That means either the TV or the receiver has to do the decoding. If it can't decode the audio codec presented you wither get nothing or a very distorted sound with artifacts. The same applies to the video codecs.

I'm really curious to know if you get a digital out from that Genie box, and whether the Denon can decode it.

 

[TLS Guy]

I got a band aid!!! - Dolby Digital OFF in sound settings.
So I did call Denon. They had heard nothing of the issue. Techs supervisor said to call
DTV, and have them walk me through switching from bitstream to PCM.

Ok I've never claimed to be, and obviously am not a techy.
I've seen bitstream settings on my BluRay player, and I had already been into
what setting I changed that gives me the band aid…that being Dolby Digital.
I just had not changed it to off, because I want to hear stations that provide it.

Changing from DD to standard sound gives me sound, but with I think SD quality.
Depth appears to be rather flat, to the ears' eye now. Things I've recorded on DVR
now have sound and we can hear them with the AVR on, just rather flat, or is it my imagination?

I will make a youtube video showing the steps I took, as the rep at DTV I spoke with says there
are others with the same issue.

I connected the phone line, and their "engineers" are supposed to send a test signal/packet this week
and if they determine the DTV receiver has a problem (I have my doubts here) then they will replace the box.
If not, probably want me to upgrade or leave the DD turned off.

Yes that works but you get only a two channel PCM feed with Dolby Digital turned off. That setting is for two channel systems.

I am getting a strong feeling now this is an MPEG-4 upgrade issue that the Denon does not like. However stereo is better then nothing.

And yes, since you posted the Internet is starting to explode with this issue.

 

[Acoustat]

Oh dear! Things are getting very nasty indeed. I was wondering when this would first show up. Under the most recent rules programs can have a flag to prevent any output other than HDMI. This is the HDMI forcing rule. We have not had a post about this yet, but yours may well be the first.

I just hope the Direct TV update, (there must have been one) has not disabled the optical out, and the analog outs from your Genie. They are allowed to do that under current rules. I have been on the lookout for the first case.

I would talk to Denon and see if they have a firmware update for this. Sometimes codecs can be changed and added by firmware, but unfortunately usually not.

Unfortunately the law is all on the side of the TV Networks and film studios. They are a paranoid bunch and if they keep this up they will turn legitimate customers away in droves. The pirates always find a loophole. They will just increase the market for pirate copies with all these infernal codes stripped and turn the honest into criminals.

I don't really blame ATT/Direct TV as you can bet they are being forced into this as part of the right to carry. It will spread across the board.

Internet radio has been the first to be thrown into absolute chaos over this. The result over here has been a return to poorer quality streams. It seems there are a lot of Internet radios that can not handle AAC plus also know as HE-AAC. When the customers radios go dead they scream. So when the station backs off then we return to much poorer quality.

I think may be the consumer has to accept a higher rate of obsolescence until all this becomes a much more mature technology, if it ever does.

By the way I have found out that the Direct TV Genie only sends out Bitstream. That means either the TV or the receiver has to do the decoding. If it can't decode the audio codec presented you wither get nothing or a very distorted sound with artifacts. The same applies to the video codecs.

I'm really curious to know if you get a digital out from that Genie box, and whether the Denon can decode it.

Similar time on posts, did you see my post just before yours here?

Tell ya what, I cannot get the Optical out from my TV to plug it into the DTV boxes output.
The blasted LG TV requires 2 people to remove the TV from the wall to make most connections.
The Optical connection is in the worst location possible for this. HDMI and USB connections
are made into a recessed cavity on the back, which when the TV is wall mounted, it's exceedingly difficult.
I'm just running it, from TV audio out
to AVR audio input for now, and have not tried other DTV outputs as of yet.
If they replace it, then awesome. This happened suddenly without me making any changes
and I am going to wait perhaps till next week for this system test they'll do.

Denon tech argued to no end - I gave up, that when using the optical out like I am
that you cannot see or hear any HDMI connected equipment.
Well, I could up until now. Like I stop an App, say Hulu, when I did, I could use the TVs remote
and click on the small window that had DTV playing, and it would go full screen and I could hear it.
Next morning, I turn just the TV on and I have to settings out the sound back to TV speaker out.
Denon swears this cannot happen, I just know how I was doing it and what changed.
I could also change to any other input on the TV menu rather than clicking on the DTV small preview box, to go full screen.

I too suggested a firmware update both to Denon and DTV. I need a 75' ethernet cable I guess
to do the update, even if there is one. Denon was not very helpful there. I have to do the leg work
to see if there's any firmware updates or not. I'm very slow.

 

[everettT]

No doubt. Here's the settings I found. Hope this is what you were asking for.
Native: ON
Screen Format: Original
Bar Color: Black
HDMI Control: ON

I've seen some handshake issues with native format and hdmi. Try a fixed resolution and see if you get sound.