no sound from yamaha rx-v673

[PENG]

The mentioned Yamaha failures were due to a TI DSP chip flaw, the same 1 that caused major issues with Pioneer's U22 error..
No CE electronic device is perfect...
But I still stand by my position Yamaha is #1 for reliability.. M Code can't be right all of the time.. Or can he??

Just my $0.02...

Agreed, but I thought you were going to inquire with you contacts to find out if Yamaha still ranks top currently in reliability? Or did they fall back a little in the past few years?

 

[3db]

Yes, and look at the difference in response to the issue. Onkyo/Pioneer offered to fix the receivers AT NO COST with a new updated chip with an updated 90 day warranty, or provide a discount towards purchase of a new receiver.

Yamaha's response? See my previous posts.

UE22 Error Master Thread-Pioneer, are you listening?

www.avsforum.com

Question is, would Pioneer still honor the warranty? If not, why should Yamaha?

 

[M Code]

My tech contact did contact them. They refused to acknowledge that there was a flawed chip issue. And yes, I was surprised at their response. I expected better.

Hmmm....
To get results U need to elevate to a higher level than just the Tech Level I...
Suggest U have your tech recontact Yamaha and ask for Dennis...
Note that Dennis is based in their Buena Park, CA corporate office.

Just my $0.02...

 

[3db]

Hmmm....
To get results U need to elevate to a higher level than just the Tech Level I...
Suggest U have your tech recontact Yamaha and ask for Dennis...
Note that Dennis is based in their Buena Park, CA corporate office.

Just my $0.02...

I wonder what his chances are of Yamaha fixing the OP's issue. Thats an 8 year old AVR. No harm in trying as long as he remains diplomatic and polite.
On another note, how long do manufacturers like TI keep around custom chips and ASICs like this?

 

[M Code]

I wonder what his chances are of Yamaha fixing the OP's issue. Thats an 8 year old AVR. No harm in trying as long as he remains diplomatic and polite.

Hmmm... Can't say...
Considering the average AVR life is about 4 1/2 years, the AVR is often replaced due to newer connectivities and audio/video technologies.. Its been my experience, the older vintage AVRs were designed/built with more conservative standards so they tend to last longer...

On another note, how long do manufacturers like TI keep around custom chips and ASICs like this?

Semi-conductors are usually kept for like 4/5 years, but note they also require custom firmware loaded.. Newer, more powerful, less expensive processors are released like about every 2 years. Just compare the categories of PCs, tablets and phones will give U an idea. But not only the part must be considered, it is inexpensive compared to the labor overhead cost to swap out.... A DSP processor typically costs about $8-10 while the hourly bench rate is >$75. Today PCB modules are swapped out, tech bench time is too expensive for just component changeover...

Just my $0.02...

 

[Brian Steele]

Hmmm....
To get results U need to elevate to a higher level than just the Tech Level I...
Suggest U have your tech recontact Yamaha and ask for Dennis...
Note that Dennis is based in their Buena Park, CA corporate office.

Just my $0.02...

LOL, having no idea who "Dennis" is, this probably won't work.

 

[Brian Steele]

I wonder what his chances are of Yamaha fixing the OP's issue. Thats an 8 year old AVR. No harm in trying as long as he remains diplomatic and polite.

Yamaha has already indicated that they have the replacement board available, for $300. That will be my last option, particularly considering that Onkyo and Pioneer replaced the their flawed boards free of charge until this year.

I can manage the board replacement on my own (40+ years getting my hands dirty with computers and electronics). Apparently it involves a bit more than a board swap however. If the board is changed, Yamaha has to be contacted via a special e-mail address to get a code to make the replacement board work in the receiver.

 

[Brian Steele]

Hmmm... Can't say...
Considering the average AVR life is about 4 1/2 years, the AVR is often replaced due to newer connectivities and audio/video technologies.. Its been my experience, the older vintage AVRs were designed/built with more conservative standards so they tend to last longer...

I'd like to find the person who decided that an AVR's lifespan should be 4.5 years and bitch-slap him. There are receivers that were made in the 70's and 80's that are still in operation (hell, they're collector's items now).

They also had less to go wrong. And there was no need for specialized equipment to swap out a component on the board.

If the DSP chip was socketed instead of soldered on to the board, I'd have bought a replacement and installed it myself.

My experience so far has convinced me that I'm not going to pay more than $500 for the damned things now. Which conveniently works out to be the price of the RX-V585, which I purchased a few days ago. If I do manage to get the RX-V673 (I couldn't even get confirmation that the replacement board would be shipped with the "D" model of the chip), I'd probably redeploy it in my brother's bar or something. 8 years old? The damned thing looks like I just took it out of the box...

 

[M Code]

I'd like to find the person who decided that an AVR's lifespan should be 4.5 years and bitch-slap him. There are receivers that were made in the 70's and 80's that are still in operation (hell, they're collector's items now).

Older AVRs had fewer channels for amplification, more heat sinking area, more robust power supplies..
The receiver buyer today is pressing for lower prices and the brands responded by taking out the internal component overdesign.

They also had less to go wrong. And there was no need for specialized equipment to swap out a component on the board. If the DSP chip was socketed instead of soldered on to the board, I'd have bought a replacement and installed it myself.

Once again to build a product with lower FOB pricing as requested by the market, more ICs, more surface mount components are used, robotic assembly machines are used. Today when a receiver fails, the technician simply swaps out the PCB modules. Socketing a DSP will cost more but again just plugging in a replacement DSP could be done provided it has been preloaded with the OE proprietary firmware.

My experience so far has convinced me that I'm not going to pay more than $500 for the damned things now. Which conveniently works out to be the price of the RX-V585, which I purchased a few days ago. If I do manage to get the RX-V673 (I couldn't even get confirmation that the replacement board would be shipped with the "D" model of the chip), I'd probably redeploy it in my brother's bar or something. 8 years old? The damned thing looks like I just took it out of the box...

Today...
If a receiver fails and is more than 4/5 years old, it is quite possible no replacement PCB modules are available. The receiver is out of warranty and few consumers will accept the cost for the replacement PCB module, plus bench tech labor to install. And even if the PCB module is available, the market continues to push for the latest/greatest audio, video and connectivity, surround and HD technology/features. A quick scan of Craig's list and/or E-Bay will disclose a significant inventory of dated, but working AVRs being sold for up to 75% off from its original pricing....

IMHO..
The AVR products today for the most part are a price-point commodity.... Almost a throw away..
That could possibly change...
But then the buying market has to be prepared to pay for higher pricing. Note that some of the pricing also has to do with our national politics, the China import sanctions and our failure to approve the TPP agreement had an impact for increasing/raising AVR(and other CE products) pricing sold in the USA by about 25%..

Just my $0.02...

 

[Brian Steele]

Older AVRs had fewer channels for amplification, more heat sinking area, more robust power supplies..

For the most part, they were also less efficient. My older Technics receiver would warm the room up if given enough time. The Yamaha ran pretty cool comparatively speaking.

Once again to build a product with lower FOB pricing as requested by the market, more ICs, more surface mount components are used, robotic assembly machines are used. Today when a receiver fails, the technician simply swaps out the PCB modules. Socketing a DSP will cost more but again just plugging in a replacement DSP could be done provided it has been preloaded with the OE proprietary firmware.

Looking around inside the receiver, it basically looks like a computing card wedded to an amplifier. The amplification section looks pretty straightforward, and I'm tempted to say fsck it and see if I could extract it from the receiver and repurpose it. Anyway, I suspect that the use of ICs and surface mount devices are driven by the need to squeeze that much tech into a box that size, rather than just cost alone. Socketing the DSP may have added a few $ to the price, but would have made repair/replacement a lot cheaper.

If a receiver fails and is more than 4/5 years old, it is quite possible no replacement PCB modules are available. The receiver is out of warranty and few consumers will accept the cost for the replacement PCB module, plus bench tech labor to install. And even if the PCB module is available, the market continues to push for the latest/greatest audio, video and connectivity, surround and HD technology/features. A quick scan of Craig's list and/or E-Bay will disclose a significant inventory of dated, but working AVRs being sold for up to 75% off from its original pricing....

That's a model that fits the US market. Not so much the market of my country, where I enjoy significantly high import duties and shipping costs, and shipping second hand stuff here is likely to encounter import duties based on the item's value when new. And shipping any items away for repair is not exactly cheap or easy either. Hence why I originally chose to go with Yamaha, as my expectation was that the chances of me having to repair the damned thing would be remote, and if I ever was to replace it, it would be because it was missing a feature that I wanted and was to prepare to pay for. I was wrong. The Technics receiver that I replaced it with (which was not treated as well as the Yamaha was) is now back in service and laughing at me. The only "servicing" I ever had to do on it was repair a bad solder joint by one of its speaker terminals (probably a by-product of its room-heating qualities).

 

[lovinthehd]

Where are you @Brian Steele ? While it would be nice to have robust consumer electronics, that's just not the way it is generally.

 

[M Code]

That's a model that fits the US market. Not so much the market of my country, where I enjoy significantly high import duties and shipping costs, and shipping second hand stuff here is likely to encounter import duties based on the item's value when new. And shipping any items away for repair is not exactly cheap or easy either. Hence why I originally chose to go with Yamaha, as my expectation was that the chances of me having to repair the damned thing would be remote, and if I ever was to replace it, it would be because it was missing a feature that I wanted and was to prepare to pay for. I was wrong. The Technics receiver that I replaced it with (which was not treated as well as the Yamaha was) is now back in service and laughing at me. The only "servicing" I ever had to do on it was repair a bad solder joint by one of its speaker terminals (probably a by-product of its room-heating qualities).

Note that all of my comments were directed toward products sold here in the continental USA market.....
Products sold in other markets outside of the USA, their brand and respective market strategy are strongly influenced by the local distributor, who frequently is independent from the parent brand...
Thanks for ur comments..

Just my $0.02...

 

[Brian Steele]

Where are you @Brian Steele ? While it would be nice to have robust consumer electronics, that's just not the way it is generally.

I'm based in Grenada, West Indies. Funnily enough, most of the electronics that I've purchased have been "robust", in that they haven't failed unless I've given them a good reason to do so. Random component failures have been few and far between. Most have been due to wear and tear / age and the rare abuse. Exceptions have been Samsung phones (and we're know they're designed with an 18-month lifetime before you want a new one anyway, LOL), Behringer amplifiers (I will never buy one again) and, new to the list, Yamaha receivers.

The cost of a US$600 receiver, by the time it reaches here, could be as much as US1,050. And the average income here is considerably less than that in the US.

 

[lovinthehd]

I'm based in Grenada, West Indies. Funnily enough, most of the electronics that I've purchased have been "robust", in that they haven't failed unless I've given them a good reason to do so. Random component failures have been few and far between. Most have been due to wear and tear / age and the rare abuse. Exceptions have been Samsung phones (and we're know they're designed with an 18-month lifetime before you want a new one anyway, LOL), Behringer amplifiers (I will never buy one again) and, new to the list, Yamaha receivers.

The cost of a US$600 receiver, by the time it reaches here, could be as much as US1,050. And the average income here is considerably less than that in the US.

I've had fairly good success with my consumer electronics, have had a couple units fail over the years....nothing to get particularly excited about but the more complex they get, and when they get to be somewhat a commodity, they will have a certain percentage fail, some early on, some will give a very long service life. Just something to consider. MCode indicates that in a survey of retailers/installers, Yamahas are among the most reliable brands reported plus they actually go thru HDMI certification/compatibility testing. The warranty/service support available where you are would be something I'd consider as important, what's that like there?