Nice Problem, But Will This Help

[JAMS]

HI, ive resently setup a nad t765 and the thing plays cd music better than ive heard ever,not saying to much but my pioneer 1016 just was irratating in the highmids,toooo brite,its bites even eq adjusted manually,but my nad is the equivilent to a tube sound,warm sonic a firm musical bass performer here!
I have the beta 50s on the L&R front and the big c360 beta 3-way center,rear are the beta 20s sides are bic ht-63 bipolar units,all set to large with a 10"velodyne sub along with a 10"jbl sub that goes way down!
My lg room 14x20 ft and furniture soaks up highs it seems!
So im going to set too more beta 20s atop the beta 50s and bi-amp them from the L&R front ch as the beta 20 in the rear have a mavelous sparkly highs and it should briten up the dark sound a bit,of course there 2-way so the mids are performed by the extended range tweeter 40khz and adjust the volume to see if that gives a little airy highs in here!
OH i did bi-wire the beta 50s allready and might put back to normal too!
The nad isnt eq upgraded yet!
Any ideas on what could make this sound any better wouldnt be discounted!
Dont get me wrong this nad is fantastic sounding,the lg room makes it soft on highs though,and the den off to the side is open and is a bass trap i swear.
Welcome any tweeks,ideas,thoughts because i love what im hearing and just thinking about getting it better just intrigues to try!
But um!! what ??

 

[Lordoftherings]

Hey Jams, how you doing man?

First, I would set my speakers to small and let your subwoofer handle the bass for them, that will release some tension and expand the sound more uniformly, and even restore some highs.

Seems that your room is very absorptive. You might need some diffusers.
What can also help is to positioned your speakers further from the walls.

You do have to experiment here Jams. If your speakers can handle bass down to let's say 40hz, you might want to try a x-over at about 60 or 70hz, and for your center and surround speakers perhaps at 80hz. Give it a try.
Also, a second sub wouldn't be a bad idea.
By the way, what brand are your speakers? Beta from who???
It's a bit late right now, but I'll be back. This is only the preliminaries. By then someone else might chime in.

Cheers,

Bob

 

[lsiberian]

HI, ive resently setup a nad t765 and the thing plays cd music better than ive heard ever,not saying to much but my pioneer 1016 just was irratating in the highmids,toooo brite,its bites even eq adjusted manually,but my nad is the equivilent to a tube sound,warm sonic a firm musical bass performer here!
I have the beta 50s on the L&R front and the big c360 beta 3-way center,rear are the beta 20s sides are bic ht-63 bipolar units,all set to large with a 10"velodyne sub along with a 10"jbl sub that goes way down!
My lg room 14x20 ft and furniture soaks up highs it seems!
So im going to set too more beta 20s atop the beta 50s and bi-amp them from the L&R front ch as the beta 20 in the rear have a mavelous sparkly highs and it should briten up the dark sound a bit,of course there 2-way so the mids are performed by the extended range tweeter 40khz and adjust the volume to see if that gives a little airy highs in here!
OH i did bi-wire the beta 50s allready and might put back to normal too!
The nad isnt eq upgraded yet!
Any ideas on what could make this sound any better wouldnt be discounted!
Dont get me wrong this nad is fantastic sounding,the lg room makes it soft on highs though,and the den off to the side is open and is a bass trap i swear.
Welcome any tweeks,ideas,thoughts because i love what im hearing and just thinking about getting it better just intrigues to try!
But um!! what ??

Why bi-amp the 50s? That's just silly those things are very efficient and can easily fill your room. In fact they probably are overpowering your room.

Ditch the non Beta speakers to get a full sound stage.

The Beta's 50s can easily handle 50hz IMO. But these speakers could use more bracing and better dampening

Bob did you know these have 2 8" woofers and the drivers are very low distortion on par with the Kappa Perfect drivers.

I really want to harvest the drivers of these speakers and build them into a proper box.

The tweeters I don't care for they are very bright. But the midrange drivers are exceptional.

 

[JAMS]

Not going to bi-amp the 50s

Insted i ment bi-amp a pair of beta 20s set on top of the 50s and i did that today,a 100 watt per ch. power amp, it did bring the highs up making airy symbols and too profound a steve miller sythn organ so i cut the beta 20s down a tad and set the back and side surr spkrs too small 80hz, this really britened up the dark sound and loudly came alive and the enhanced stereo mode was highly improved!
Now i might go away from bi-wiring the beta 50s and see how the x-over does as there 3-way,not sure i understand how bi-wire effects these spkrs, but was advised to do so buy a klipsh owner, he likes supernova brite i think or his horns are lazy!
The bass suffered a bit with the 50s set small,the firmness was weakend a lot! The 50s were responceable for some real firm bass content that combined the subs marvelous warm musical movements that cant be understated,its a team effort giving the overall bass range incredible detail and when my room mates heard this play it floored them and realized why i bought the pricey nad t765, and frankly i didnt no these spkr combo could sound this fantastic,it was a leap of faith after reading alot,i mean between the lines,my witching stick kept pointing to rotel,adcom,nad !! I didnt pay $2000.00 either! Wow decent spkrs and equipment can be mind blowing and i am very lucky this is beyond good,dvd music and movies are easy to play but cd,s getting one too play without that digital bite loud with this range and detail whew, overall the audio equip cost about $3700 over 2yrs ! yikes
Didnt count a $2400.00 pana plasma 50" and sonicwave optical cables,hmdi,wire,ect: But finnally its what i was wishing for! Now im looking to setup this, correcting anything i can, trying any suggestions you can give me helps because i dont really KNOW much but when it sounds better i know right away! THANKS FRIENDS! THE SPKR 50&20S ARE INFINITYS BETA LINE, out of production, resently the CLASSICA SERIES seems a replacement! BETA ARE NOW ARE A SERIOUS STEAL! AND AVAILIBLE, monster c360 for $229.00

 

[Lordoftherings]

Hey Jams,

1. Your Infinity Beta speakers (all of them) should be cross at 80hz from your NAD T 765 receiver.

2. And because your room opens to another room in your home, it would be a very good idea to get another same exactly subwoofer than the one you got presently.

3. If you have some CD shelfs or high cabinets, you know like those ones that you put against the wall and are about four feet high, to put your CDs in.
Well, if you put them against the side walls between you and your main front speakers, they work great as diffusers. Might improve the highs by restoring some of the lost high frequencies. Worth the try.

Cheers,

Bob

 

[JAMS]

LOST SOMETHING @ 80hz

Weird,when putting the front infinty beta 50s at 80hz small the overall sound became thinner and not as good too me!
I belive the bass timber changed and lacked the betas flavor which cant be understated,its a big difference and the two subs are noticed mostly on lower notes,the bass roll off is hard to figure because it seems the music content is different allways!
Fortunately the remote has a 6 db + and - for quickly getting them v/nicely in
just right,and standup jazz bass becomes so real in hearing the string vibrate and quickly peak and decay,as ive only heard that on my beyerdynamic 880 pro headphones,there so sweet its a true blessing there the most comfortable headphone around i think!
But when i heard the nad get my subs sounding like that i was floored!
I didnt think i would ever hear a sub do that,it was more than a little surprizing really! That kind of low frequency detail was so musical, i was completely caught of guard! So somehow the betas need to go low as they can for the subs seem at home really low!

 

[Lordoftherings]

All right, Isiberian mentioned two 8" drivers of good quality; then try to cross them at 60hz, only your Beta50, the other ones at 80hz.
Now, how good is your sub?

I know what you mean by loosing something at 80hz, every receiver does that. Bass management in our receivers is just a big joke.
It takes a lot of trials and errors to even arrive to a reasonable compromise; the room, the decors, the furniture, the positioning of the speakers and the subwoofer(s). I always like to see two dubs for better help at balancing things easier. It does take more time, but it's time that it's worth it.

Surround speaker setup is an ungoing thing, it never ends, unless you treat the room and use a better EQ system, like ARC, or Audyssey PRO v3, or maybe Trinnov in a near future, who knows. But I know happy people that work really hard at it with very few room treatment (the room was probably better to start with), but they also use the best room EQ calibratin system with SVsound EQ1 subEQ, and ARC1. they use REW to check and recheck up to 10, 20, 30, 40 ,50, 100 times and...
It's tough and a labor of love, determination, great passion, that only very few people have. But they also have more ressources than we do.

Best is to do the best we can do with the tools we have, and realise that compromise have to be made. If not, prepare yourself to invest a great deal of time and a better financial position too.

It's just common sense. It's like a very beautiful woman, not anyone can access her, it takes good looks, money, love, courtisanship, and all the full shawbang, restaurents, dancing, I know, I've been there, Dad too, and Mom.

Ok, I'm good for now, till I come back after reading more feedback from you guys and let my rocks rolling down the hills of the Holy Grail of Audio and the full Surround Setup.

Cheers,

Bob

Note: Too tired to correct my spelling faults, so be forgiving and the Lord will return you the favor.

 

[JAMS]

Lets See What Works And Doesnt Work

We have great sounding bass when front L&R Set to lg, the beta 50s might go down to 43hz,the firm tight bass is lost at 80hz and the subs emit a softer warm responce,a different timber,but together the betas add a very dynamic mix thats a must! The Velodyne vx-10" is quick and tuned higher than the larger jbl 10" incloser,which gets down low as a 10" can get! Its a 70 lb beast!
Together the bass region is about fully covered without standing waves except in the non listening area of the den,there a bass head would be in heaven!!!
The side surrounds are bic ht-63 ,a horn loaded dipole with a 5.5" and a 3.5x5.5" passive woofer for mid-bass set to 70hz, The beta in rear are set same no eq and better and briter than set large,thanks for helping on that!
I find a different timber on the bic,but only with ear up too them!
Now adding the other set of beta 20s bi-amped on top of the 50s gives 5-1" domed tweeters up front and counting the c360 beta 3-way center spkr makes 4-8" and 4-6.5" woofers and the4.25" mid-range and in all with the surr set too 70hz has britened up the sound just right!
The darkness lifted and the sun came out ,the system simply needed the 70hz on the surrounds and the front beta 20s added a more airy sparkle thats not too brite at all,i can adjust those with the 100watt per ch power amp!
Zepplin remastered album 2 seemed to favor that dark set up though, loud it came across truly amazing! I prefer more sonically pure music now days!
I no the bi-polar spkrs usually are in the rear but they work on sides as the highs fire a little forward of my listening position ! High dynamic range on those babys watching movies!
Good things can happen with decent spkrs if you have something like this nad t765! Nothing but amazing how much better than the pioneer 7.1 i have in a box now!!!

 

[JAMS]

Idiot could not edit post above ,go figure

Two errors,that jbl 1000 sub weights in at 40lbs but the box feels like a sandbag,and theres 3-4.25" midrange spkrs included in all the front 3 and the freq range for the beta 50s ,35hz-20khz +/-3db and 30-40khz for -6db for the newer ones with the extended range tweeties in there!
So the weird thing is the bass rolls off the betas perfect and the jbl goes down too 30hz ,seems the betas start getting weak on the bass when the subs start feeding i think!
Let me get this right on the 2nd try please,including the center and L&R front i have 4-8" and 4-6.5" woofers 3-4.25" midrange and 5-1" tweeties playing now,that center 3-way is big and sensitive and gets down too 45hz+/-3db and the 365live free internet radio is nice at 128kbps if you want too try it!
I use my headphone output from a 3pc old labtec spkr set and put the volume below halfway and bought a 1/8" stereo jack adaptor that has 2 rca male jacks into L&R preamp in and daisy chained 3 -6' rca cables w/barrel connectors 18 ft and its real decent but not cd quality of course!!
Feel funny replying to correct my other reply so no one replys about my mistake on my first reply! Im going on probation for this i betcha!

 

[adwilk]

Let me get this straight... you put a pair of beta 20's ON TOP OF the 50's?

 

[JAMS]

I bi-amped a pair of infinity beta 20s

Yep,i sure did,since ive a spare amp and beta 20s i used the L&R pre amp out on the receiver and play the same material as the beta 50 set do!
Im not quite sure the volume increase sloop is the same for the preouts but later i will give it some higher volume when my room mates are not home!
If both pairs increase dbs fairly equally then great!
The stereo image and stage effect became larger during med loud playing Steve miller and styx cds!
The total stereo sound was alive and better than the beta 50 pair alone i would say ,of course you cant get me too cut off the 2 10" subs because they seem too pick up the slack on the deeper notes so well its just a complete full scale from highs to lows!
Subs come in just right,im just lucky how well this sounds,ive heard paradigms but with only a sparklely mid range and no bass support but they did sound good at this store!
Never heard a stereo with sound like the NAD puts out!
Pathetic how most receivers reproduce cd music!

 

[adwilk]

Yep,i sure did,since ive a spare amp and beta 20s i used the L&R pre amp out on the receiver and play the same material as the beta 50 set do!
Im not quite sure the volume increase sloop is the same for the preouts but later i will give it some higher volume when my room mates are not home!
If both pairs increase dbs fairly equally then great!
The stereo image and stage effect became larger during med loud playing Steve miller and styx cds!
The total stereo sound was alive and better than the beta 50 pair alone i would say ,of course you cant get me too cut off the 2 10" subs because they seem too pick up the slack on the deeper notes so well its just a complete full scale from highs to lows!
Subs come in just right,im just lucky how well this sounds,ive heard paradigms but with only a sparklely mid range and no bass support but they did sound good at this store!
Never heard a stereo with sound like the NAD puts out!
Pathetic how most receivers reproduce cd music!

All that matters is that you're happy.... The NAD doesnt "put out" sound. Good chance you're getting some cancellation by having the 20's on the 50's. You just need get the settings right on your system and I'd imagine it would sound better. BUT, whatever floats your boat...

 

[ejknapper]

Help! NAD listening mode

My NAD T765 will only allow me to select stereo listening mode, I cannot select enhanced stereo, PLXII, NEO, etc. I do not even get those choices in the listening mode selection on the main menu . . . what am I doing wrong? Connections seem to be correct. (My NAD is connected to my DTV DVR, my flat screen, and a DVD player). Thanks!!

 

[BWG707]

You might want to use some bass traps. That could even-out your sound a bit. It might bring some of those highs out that you are missing. Just a thought.