Next Speaker Break-In article?

[krabapple]

Any idea when part 2 will be appearing?

 

[Haoleb]

Speaker break-in doesnt exist. Its just your mind playing tricks on you. It has been proven time and time again with DBT and any differences are simply placebo.

While im at it, All you need for speaker cables is 16 gauge lamp cord from home depot. Even though you want to get something decent, you dont need to.

Oh yeah, and all cd players sound the same. Its just ones and zero's. Well ok its just electrical pulses of highs and lows but its not like an analog signal. all cdp read the same info so of course they all sound the same.

As far as amplfiiers go, watts are watts. you can buy 200 of em for a grand or for 200 bucks, you make the choice.

Well, I'd say that pretty much covers it. End of discussion. I know theres many who will agree

 

[JKnPA]

Email.............. maybe

Any idea when part 2 will be appearing?

You may want to send him an email......... click-on his name in the article, and an email box will appear.........
http://www.audioholics.com/about/staffbios/MarkSanfilipo.php

Haoleb..........
That was very helpful!........

 

[Sheep]

Speaker break-in doesnt exist. Its just your mind playing tricks on you. It has been proven time and time again with DBT and any differences are simply placebo.

Actually, the differences are Bias.

While im at it, All you need for speaker cables is 16 gauge lamp cord from home depot. Even though you want to get something decent, you dont need to.

No no, it's 12ga.

Oh yeah, and all cd players sound the same. Its just ones and zero's. Well ok its just electrical pulses of highs and lows but its not like an analog signal. all cdp read the same info so of course they all sound the same.

I wouldn't say that. There are audible differences, but once you hit a certain price, you're paying for features rather then performance.

As far as amplfiiers go, watts are watts. you can buy 200 of em for a grand or for 200 bucks, you make the choice.

Again, given certain guidlines, up to a point there can be a difference. After that, money for nothing.

Well, I'd say that pretty much covers it. End of discussion. I know theres many who will agree

Let me ask you this. If a stereo is hooked up 2 different ways in the middle of the forest, but the difference is inaudible, does anyone hear the difference?

SheepStar

 

[billnchristy]

Ok so.

+

+

+

Is all you need for pure audio bliss??

Man, have I been misled.

 

[Haoleb]

If you hadnt caught on I was being sarcastic

 

[billnchristy]

Well if I missed yours you missed mine

 

[krabapple]

Speaker break-in doesnt exist. Its just your mind playing tricks on you. It has been proven time and time again with DBT and any differences are simply placebo.

er...ok, sparky (but typically for bludgeon-level sarcasm, you overstate -- speaker break-in hasn't been tested 'time and again' with DBT, and I do try to follow DBT issues -- the only people regularly doing speaker DBTs, AFAIK, are Toole and Olive at Harman, and they , as far as I know, have never published on the audibility of break-in. Nor do all CDPs and amps and cables *necessarily sound the same, etc.), but the fact is, Clint mentioned awhile back that Mr. Sanfilipo would be doing a 'part 2' to his excellent Audioholics article, and that's what I'm asking about. Specifically, there was a debate raging between a speaker designer and Audioholics on the sticky'd break-in thread (now closed), and the Mark's part 2 was mentioned as a partial rebuttal. Do you have a specific objection to Sanfilipo's first article***EDITED - Admin. Watch the language, please.

 

[billy p]

Gee wizzz

I wonder as to why? Suggesting someone is whacking off will archive this one as well. Lighten up!!

 

[Haoleb]

er...ok, sparky (but typically for bludgeon-level sarcasm, you overstate -- speaker break-in hasn't been tested 'time and again' with DBT, and I do try to follow DBT issues -- the only people regularly doing speaker DBTs, AFAIK, are Toole and Olive at Harman, and they , as far as I know, have never published on the audibility of break-in. Nor do all CDPs and amps and cables *necessarily sound the same, etc.), but the fact is, Clint mentioned awhile back that Mr. Sanfilipo would be doing a 'part 2' to his excellent Audioholics article, and that's what I'm asking about. Specifically, there was a debate raging between a speaker designer and Audioholics on the sticky'd break-in thread (now closed), and the Mark's part 2 was mentioned as a partial rebuttal. Do you have a specific objection to Sanfilipo's first article***Edited - Admin.

I mostly just thought you were trying to start another discussion on speaker break-in. Considering the last one from just a day or two ago was about as pointless as they come with nobody willing to meet in the middle on the topic. And specifically those posts in other previous threads where people even admit to hearing a difference only to be told that they are wrong and that they are only having their mind play tricks and that there is no difference, even when the person saying that there are no differences probbably doesnt have enough experience yet to judge his/her beliefs on personal real-life experience rather than that of others.

If someone wants to tell me that they dont believe in break-in, cables, good cdp sound better, orwhatever thats fine. But dont tell me that what I heard when I did infact hear something was wrong and that I was wrong all along. Believe it or not, Alot of my advice comes from that of my personal experiences.

I apologize if I had misunderstood your intentions with starting this thread. Which I belive I did.

 

[Jack Hammer]

Wow!!

I mostly just thought you were trying to start another discussion on speaker break-in. Considering the last one from just a day or two ago was about as pointless as they come with nobody willing to meet in the middle on the topic. And specifically those posts in other previous threads where people even admit to hearing a difference only to be told that they are wrong and that they are only having their mind play tricks and that there is no difference, even when the person saying that there are no differences probbably doesnt have enough experience yet to judge his/her beliefs on personal real-life experience rather than that of others.

If someone wants to tell me that they dont believe in break-in, cables, good cdp sound better, orwhatever thats fine. But dont tell me that what I heard when I did infact hear something was wrong and that I was wrong all along. Believe it or not, Alot of my advice comes from that of my personal experiences.

I apologize if I had misunderstood your intentions with starting this thread. Which I belive I did.

That is one Well written and mature response (no sarcasm intended, I actually mean it). I wish more people online were able to do that and move on with their lives.

I feel what you mean, some of the endless debates that go on get a bit tiresome and really go nowhere nor resolve anything. In fact, often they make me not even want to ask any questions for fear of having to dig through fanatical (yes, fanatical) beliefs and responses.

Shaka Brah

Jack

 

[mtrycrafts]

If someone wants to tell me that they dont believe in break-in, cables, good cdp sound better, orwhatever thats fine. But dont tell me that what I heard when I did infact hear something was wrong and that I was wrong all along. Believe it or not, Alot of my advice comes from that of my personal experiences.

Beliefs should not enter into these component comparisons. But, rather what can be replicated and demonstrated.
Unreliable comparisons yields dubious results.
Perception and hearing are not the same things. We perceive through our senses, including our ears. It may be real, or it may be the result of the brain's processes of filling in the void, the empty data stream as it is looking for differences. Yes, we do perceive much that is not real. Knowing when it is real or imagined is the key to success and reliable outcomes and useful information.

 

[rmongiovi]

Let me add perhaps another way to look at this. We say, through testing, that speaker break-in does not occur. Speaker performance does not change after perhaps the first 30 seconds of use.

But we also admit the possibility that our ears must become accustomed to different speakers. I believe (if I may be forgiven that personal excess) in the process of "educating the palate". Nuances of perception that were initially unnoticed become detectable, and eventually essential, as my senses learn to perceive new input.

Is this not "break in"? Am I not better able to judge the thing that I am sensing after my brain has learned better how to interpret the signals it is judging? Does the fact that it's perceptual rather than physical make it less real?

This isn't something that could be tested with a double blind A/B test because those tests don't provide the time needed for my nervous system to learn. But that still does not make it unwise to give a new piece of equipment time to "break in" before I judge it.

Now, if that break in period just happens to take as long as the return policy, that's just a wild coincidence.

 

[Sheep]

Let me add perhaps another way to look at this. We say, through testing, that speaker break-in does not occur. Speaker performance does not change after perhaps the first 30 seconds of use.

But we also admit the possibility that our ears must become accustomed to different speakers. I believe (if I may be forgiven that personal excess) in the process of "educating the palate". Nuances of perception that were initially unnoticed become detectable, and eventually essential, as my senses learn to perceive new input.

Is this not "break in"? Am I not better able to judge the thing that I am sensing after my brain has learned better how to interpret the signals it is judging? Does the fact that it's perceptual rather than physical make it less real?

This isn't something that could be tested with a double blind A/B test because those tests don't provide the time needed for my nervous system to learn. But that still does not make it unwise to give a new piece of equipment time to "break in" before I judge it.

Now, if that break in period just happens to take as long as the return policy, that's just a wild coincidence.

DBT is all thats needed to determine the better speaker. Not Vervous system break in. You may develope a bias using a different parameter of the speaker. Looks, construction price etc etc.

SheepStar

 

[rmongiovi]

DBT is all thats needed to determine the better speaker. Not Vervous system break in. You may develope a bias using a different parameter of the speaker. Looks, construction price etc etc.

SheepStar

So you believe that all people are capable of judging all things, to the best of their capabilities, from the first moment they experience them?

You don't suppose that you could learn to distinguish and enjoy attributes of something, wine perhaps, after learning about and participating in wine tastings that you could not perceive from the moment you took your first sip?

 

[Jack Hammer]

So you believe that all people are capable of judging all things, to the best of their capabilities, from the first moment they experience them?

You don't suppose that you could learn to distinguish and enjoy attributes of something, wine perhaps, after learning about and participating in wine tastings that you could not perceive from the moment you took your first sip?

Wine and speakers are completely different. A wine taster, savours the aroma, sips the wine, and swirls it around their mouth for a few moments to really taste the wine. Many people don't notice the subtle differences in speakers right away, sometimes they only begin to become apparent after listening in your home for a few weeks. Professional reviewers keep systems for extended times to really hear how they perform, they don't walk into a store and do a 15 minute demo and say "these are awesome, run out and buy them."

So yes, one could learn to discern some favorable factors right away with speakers, but that is not an absolute and it doesn't tell you much about the long term nuances. Most people walk into listening with some expectations which can influence what they believe they hear. Such as the companies reputation, the physical appearance of the speaker, how badly they 'want' that particular unit, online reviews, word of mouth, price, etc. eg, Bose makes some of the best speakers, they cost a thousand dollars a pair, lots of people buy them and are very satisfied, they have high ratings, they look great, I really want the 901's, my friend has them and loves them, the salesman said they were the best, etc. Nothing against anyone with Bose, if you like them, more power to ya.

An extended DBT would be the best, maybe not the most realistic, but best way to determine what speaker is better. Basically, a longer version of what Sheep said.

my $0.02

Jack

 

[krabapple]

That is one Well written and mature response (no sarcasm intended, I actually mean it). I wish more people online were able to do that and move on with their lives.

I feel what you mean, some of the endless debates that go on get a bit tiresome and really go nowhere nor resolve anything. In fact, often they make me not even want to ask any questions for fear of having to dig through fanatical (yes, fanatical) beliefs and responses.

Shaka Brah

Jack

I wasn't asking for another 'endless debate' ; I was asking the editors when the next *Audioholics article on speaker break-in* was going to appear.

And I'm not sure what thread from a 'few days ago' is being referred to; the last thread explicitly about speaker break-in appears to have been closed in July.

It is not 'fanatical' to request good data....or to rely on it. "Personal experience' with 'what you heard' is not considered very good data, all by itself. You, or anyone *can* be wrong about what you heard. That's just a fact of life, due to humans not being perfect.

 

[krabapple]

Let me add perhaps another way to look at this. We say, through testing, that speaker break-in does not occur. Speaker performance does not change after perhaps the first 30 seconds of use.

Except, Danny Richie claims his measurements show it *does* occur. Clint DeBoer implied that Mr. Sanfilipo's next installment would have something to say about that.

It may in fact all come down to whether the measured differences have any audible correlate. And that will require good listening tests to determine.

But we also admit the possibility that our ears must become accustomed to different speakers. I believe (if I may be forgiven that personal excess) in the process of "educating the palate". Nuances of perception that were initially unnoticed become detectable, and eventually essential, as my senses learn to perceive new input.

Is this not "break in"?

It is 'break in ' of the *listener, not the loudspeaker. THat's NOT what
speaker break-in advocates claim is the cause of the perceived difference.

Am I not better able to judge the thing that I am sensing after my brain has learned better how to interpret the signals it is judging? Does the fact that it's perceptual rather than physical make it less real?

It doesn't make the loudspeaker produce sound any differently.

This isn't something that could be tested with a double blind A/B test because those tests don't provide the time needed for my nervous system to learn.

Yes, they do. There is no limit on the amount of 'acclimation' time in a DBT. Listen to the speakers for as long as you want! Listen until you are sure that you have 'broken them in'. THen get another new set, and compare the new ones to the 'broken in' ones....in a DBT.

But that still does not make it unwise to give a new piece of equipment time to "break in" before I judge it.

But it is quite unwise to claim that the *equipment* has broken in, based only on that evidence.

 

[Nick250]

I suspect break in does not occur. But in case I am wrong I stick new speakers in an unused room and run moderately loud music through them for three or four days. Probably a waste of time and electricity, but what the hell, I am then done with break in concerns.

Nick

 

[billy p]

I suspect break in does not occur. But in case I am wrong I stick new speakers in an unused room and run moderately loud music through them for three or four days. Probably a waste of time and electricity, but what the hell, I am then done with break in concerns.

Nick

Well I don't have much experience or knowledge? Since I haven't owned alot of speakers but the ones I have owned all came with instructions and they all state what Nick250 is saying. Simply put don't crank them upon initial set up!!