Next Level?

[fuzz092888]

Wow Fuzz-(4) 18" subs? Holy smokes man!!!! Those graphs look very flat to me.

Yes, it took a lot to get to that point and a lot of trial and error and reading with my other setups. Unfortunately or fortunately, depending on how you look at it, my setups have gone through a lot of changes. 3 different residences, lots of gear changes from 1-5 subs and with lots of different placements and experiments. It definitely hasn't been a set up once and leave it kind of job.

So, of all the dsp's you have used which one did YOU prefer? Hope I can get the same type of response in my small room.

YOU have had a lot of experience with exactly what I am trying to learn about. Now I know who to look to when I am so lost.....LOL!!!!!

Cheers,

Phil

As far as simplicity goes Audyssey is probably the easiest. A receiver with Audyssey MultEQ XT32 and BassEQ will get you pretty darn good results with 2 subs and is a breeze to run. The Antimode 8033S-II will do a pair of subs and should be reasonably easy to setup and use, while also providing flexibility in terms of other tweaks you want to do. I've never used an 8033 before since I have the dual core, but from looking at it, it should be similar in that you make a few selections and then run the autoEQ.

Dirac is interesting, albeit expensive, and provides a lot of tweaking and features all in one place. I fiddled with their free trial awhile back and thought it was pretty cool, until I saw the price and immediately realized it wasn't for me The big drawback is price, for a stereo miniDSP with Dirac it'll set you back over $900. While the MSRP for the Antimode dual core is about that much, I bought mine used and paid a heck of a lot less and IMO they seem to provide similar functionality, with a few key differences.

My personal preference is miniDSP with a calibrated mic. It allows you to make tweaks over the entire band and with REW gives you a lot of options. I also prefer mics from CSL instead of buying them directly from miniDSP for 2 reasons 1) they're not coming straight from China and 2) the calibration goes down to 5Hz instead of only down to 20Hz. This option is the least straight forward route, although the quick and dirty version doesn't have to take hours and hours.

Fuzz, I am a bit confused about the anti-mode 8033 SII. Will this dsp work for both of my subs OR will I need two of them?

The 8033S-II should do two subs although I'm not sure it calibrates them individually. Either way, you calibrate with whatever aftermarket gadget you've got and then run the auto cal (preferably Audyssey MultEQ XT32 with Bass EQ) to not only level match, but also set the delay and provide a touch more EQ. At least IMO YMMV and all that.

Also, can YOU explain a bit more about Dirac? Keep in mind that I am looking for simplicity AND cheap. I know these two do NOT go together well very often. But, I just need something that will give me the most that is also simple to some extent.

Dirac allows for customizable curves, multi-point measurements, not just on the horizontal plane, but also the vertical plane, and will do some other stuff as well. It's a pretty powerful suite of software, but it's expensive as mentioned above and if you're only looking to do the subs and not replace the built in EQ systems of receivers (like Audyssey) then I would say the $1000+ could probably be better spent.

Don't mind doing some work, but I am in an apartment. So, there are some limitations. BTW, do YOU have any pics of YOUR set-up?

Cheers,

Phil

Last place I was in was an apartment. I had a living room system and my office system. Now it's a similar setup except one in the basement and one in the living room. I have a thread in the pros and joes gallery, although I realized I don't have many shots of everything finally set up. Excuse the mess.

Finally Coming Together

 

[speakerman39]

Yes, it took a lot to get to that point and a lot of trial and error and reading with my other setups. Unfortunately or fortunately, depending on how you look at it, my setups have gone through a lot of changes. 3 different residences, lots of gear changes from 1-5 subs and with lots of different placements and experiments. It definitely hasn't been a set up once and leave it kind of job.



As far as simplicity goes Audyssey is probably the easiest. A receiver with Audyssey MultEQ XT32 and BassEQ will get you pretty darn good results with 2 subs and is a breeze to run. The Antimode 8033S-II will do a pair of subs and should be reasonably easy to setup and use, while also providing flexibility in terms of other tweaks you want to do. I've never used an 8033 before since I have the dual core, but from looking at it, it should be similar in that you make a few selections and then run the autoEQ.

Dirac is interesting, albeit expensive, and provides a lot of tweaking and features all in one place. I fiddled with their free trial awhile back and thought it was pretty cool, until I saw the price and immediately realized it wasn't for me The big drawback is price, for a stereo miniDSP with Dirac it'll set you back over $900. While the MSRP for the Antimode dual core is about that much, I bought mine used and paid a heck of a lot less and IMO they seem to provide similar functionality, with a few key differences.

My personal preference is miniDSP with a calibrated mic. It allows you to make tweaks over the entire band and with REW gives you a lot of options. I also prefer mics from CSL instead of buying them directly from miniDSP for 2 reasons 1) they're not coming straight from China and 2) the calibration goes down to 5Hz instead of only down to 20Hz. This option is the least straight forward route, although the quick and dirty version doesn't have to take hours and hours.



The 8033S-II should do two subs although I'm not sure it calibrates them individually. Either way, you calibrate with whatever aftermarket gadget you've got and then run the auto cal (preferably Audyssey MultEQ XT32 with Bass EQ) to not only level match, but also set the delay and provide a touch more EQ. At least IMO YMMV and all that.



Dirac allows for customizable curves, multi-point measurements, not just on the horizontal plane, but also the vertical plane, and will do some other stuff as well. It's a pretty powerful suite of software, but it's expensive as mentioned above and if you're only looking to do the subs and not replace the built in EQ systems of receivers (like Audyssey) then I would say the $1000+ could probably be better spent.



Last place I was in was an apartment. I had a living room system and my office system. Now it's a similar setup except one in the basement and one in the living room. I have a thread in the pros and joes gallery, although I realized I don't have many shots of everything finally set up. Excuse the mess.

Finally Coming Together

Thanks a bunch Fuzz. This is beyond valuable to me. Got lots of work to do before I get to this stage. Will look at this again and again as needed while on my way. Appreciate YOUR input!

Cheers,

Phil

 

[speakerman39]

Yes, it took a lot to get to that point and a lot of trial and error and reading with my other setups. Unfortunately or fortunately, depending on how you look at it, my setups have gone through a lot of changes. 3 different residences, lots of gear changes from 1-5 subs and with lots of different placements and experiments. It definitely hasn't been a set up once and leave it kind of job.



As far as simplicity goes Audyssey is probably the easiest. A receiver with Audyssey MultEQ XT32 and BassEQ will get you pretty darn good results with 2 subs and is a breeze to run. The Antimode 8033S-II will do a pair of subs and should be reasonably easy to setup and use, while also providing flexibility in terms of other tweaks you want to do. I've never used an 8033 before since I have the dual core, but from looking at it, it should be similar in that you make a few selections and then run the autoEQ.

Dirac is interesting, albeit expensive, and provides a lot of tweaking and features all in one place. I fiddled with their free trial awhile back and thought it was pretty cool, until I saw the price and immediately realized it wasn't for me The big drawback is price, for a stereo miniDSP with Dirac it'll set you back over $900. While the MSRP for the Antimode dual core is about that much, I bought mine used and paid a heck of a lot less and IMO they seem to provide similar functionality, with a few key differences.

My personal preference is miniDSP with a calibrated mic. It allows you to make tweaks over the entire band and with REW gives you a lot of options. I also prefer mics from CSL instead of buying them directly from miniDSP for 2 reasons 1) they're not coming straight from China and 2) the calibration goes down to 5Hz instead of only down to 20Hz. This option is the least straight forward route, although the quick and dirty version doesn't have to take hours and hours.



The 8033S-II should do two subs although I'm not sure it calibrates them individually. Either way, you calibrate with whatever aftermarket gadget you've got and then run the auto cal (preferably Audyssey MultEQ XT32 with Bass EQ) to not only level match, but also set the delay and provide a touch more EQ. At least IMO YMMV and all that.



Dirac allows for customizable curves, multi-point measurements, not just on the horizontal plane, but also the vertical plane, and will do some other stuff as well. It's a pretty powerful suite of software, but it's expensive as mentioned above and if you're only looking to do the subs and not replace the built in EQ systems of receivers (like Audyssey) then I would say the $1000+ could probably be better spent.



Last place I was in was an apartment. I had a living room system and my office system. Now it's a similar setup except one in the basement and one in the living room. I have a thread in the pros and joes gallery, although I realized I don't have many shots of everything finally set up. Excuse the mess.

Finally Coming Together

Fuzz, is this the CSL mic YOU were referring to:

http://cross-spectrum.com/measurement/calibrated_umik.html

Using the Minidsp is probably the route I am going to go. Just want to make sure. Thanks once again for YOUR help!

Cheers,

Phil

 

[fuzz092888]

Fuzz, is this the CSL mic YOU were referring to:

http://cross-spectrum.com/measurement/calibrated_umik.html

Using the Minidsp is probably the route I am going to go. Just want to make sure. Thanks once again for YOUR help!

Cheers,

Phil

Yup, that's the one.

 

[Auditor55]

Are these Polk (RTi6?) bookshelf speakers??
If you're looking to take your system to next level, I'd start with new LCRs like Ascend CMT340SE.
As for Sub - do the crawl first, AutoEQ later and don't overthink this.

I think he was asking about taking his system to another level in terms of LF response.

 

[Auditor55]

I admit to only skimming this thread, but I've used a few different flavors of Audyssey, I have two different MiniDSP's, I've tried Dirac, and also have an Anti-mode dual core 2.0. Currently this is with 4 18" subs in the basement.



Here is another measurement from the subs, I believe this was at the last place I was living



No room treatments, mediocre placement, just good subs and EQ.

What do you mean by mediocre placement?

 

[Auditor55]

Fuzz, I am a bit confused about the anti-mode 8033 SII. Will this dsp work for both of my subs OR will I need two of them? Also, can YOU explain a bit more about Dirac? Keep in mind that I am looking for simplicity AND cheap. I know these two do NOT go together well very often. But, I just need something that will give me the most that is also simple to some extent. Don't mind doing some work, but I am in an apartment. So, there are some limitations. BTW, do YOU have any pics of YOUR set-up?

Cheers,

Phil

It will work for both, however you need to use a Y adapter to split the bass signal. Before doing so, you will need to manually match the sub levels. Also, when you run Audyessy, MCACC, YPAO etc., you want to place each sub as equidistant from the mic as possible, that is if you AVR doesn't not calibrate the subs independently.

 

[Auditor55]

Thanks Kurt will check it out. Also, will chat with Tom V. and see what he recommends for my room. Will be ordering my second ULS-15 MK2 sub very soon. My RTi8 towers will be up and running soon too. Just been very hectic here as of late. Plus, going to eat the Prime Rib Buffet at Golden Corral here shortly. Appreciate the help.

Cheers,

Phil

Why are you using towers with dual ULS-15's?

 

[speakerman39]

I think he was asking about taking his system to another level in terms of LF response.

That is correct. In the past, I never bothered with using anything like REW/DSP/Anti-mode 8033 SII. This time around, I plan to do so. Thus taking my LFE to another level.

Cheers,

Phil

 

[speakerman39]

It will work for both, however you need to use a Y adapter to split the bass signal. Before doing so, you will need to manually match the sub levels. Also, when you run Audyessy, MCACC, YPAO etc., you want to place each sub as equidistant from the mic as possible, that is if you AVR doesn't not calibrate the subs independently.

Why would I have to use Y-adapters? My SR6009 has dual sub outs. As far as I know, I will not need Y-adapters. But, I do have plenty of them if I do need.

Cheers,

Phil

 

[speakerman39]

Why are you using towers with dual ULS-15's?

As much as I like the Rti6's, I much preferred the RTi8's. That is, the 8's just do everything better. Especially, in the mid-range. Not to mention the 8's are more dynamic. Plan to run everything set as small with the typical 80 Hz crossover setting. The ULS-15 MK2 subs will handle the rest.

Cheers,

Phil

 

[Auditor55]

Why would I have to use Y-adapters? My SR6009 has dual sub outs. As far as I know, I will not need Y-adapters. But, I do have plenty of them if I do need.

Cheers,

Phil

Even though your receiver has two sub outs, it only produce a mono signal which is fine. In order to use the Anti-mode with your both your subs, you have to combine the signal because the Anti-Mode only has an input for one (mono signal) sub, that is why you need a Y adapter. Otherwise you would have to purchase two Anti-Modes and connect to each sub output on your receiver.

 

[speakerman39]

Even though your receiver has two sub outs, it only produce a mono signal which is fine. In order to use the Anti-mode with your both your subs, you have to combine the signal because the Anti-Mode only has an input for one (mono signal) sub, that is why you need a Y adapter. Otherwise you would have to purchase two Anti-Modes and connect to each sub output on your receiver.

Oh I see. Well, it is a good thing that I still have plenty of Y-adapters then. Of course, that is if I choose to go with the Anti-mode. To be honest, the miniDSP and the Umik 1 is so tempting. But, as Fuzz pointed out it is better to get the CSL Umik 1. The reason being, they can calibrate all the way down to 5 Hz. Not to mention, the miniDSP is also more affordable.

Cheers,

Phil

 

[fuzz092888]

What do you mean by mediocre placement?

Not optimal. Limited options. Not where I would have liked to have placed them based on REW room sim.

Even though your receiver has two sub outs, it only produce a mono signal which is fine. In order to use the Anti-mode with your both your subs, you have to combine the signal because the Anti-Mode only has an input for one (mono signal) sub, that is why you need a Y adapter. Otherwise you would have to purchase two Anti-Modes and connect to each sub output on your receiver.

Not always true. With two ULS subs he won't need a Y adapter or a second antimode. The antimode 8033S-II has two line in's and two line out's. While one of the line out's is 180 degrees out of phase, because the ULS has a phase switch it doesn't matter.

 

[speakerman39]

Not optimal. Limited options. Not where I would have liked to have placed them based on REW room sim.



Not always true. With two ULS subs he won't need a Y adapter or a second antimode. The antimode 8033S-II has two line in's and two line out's. While one of the line out's is 180 degrees out of phase, because the ULS has a phase switch it doesn't matter.

That makes a lot of sense. But, it looks more like I am going with a miniDSP and UMIK 1 instead of the anti-mode 8033 S II. Mainly because the mini is less expensive. Wished I could find some used. Would be all over that. Thanks Fuzz for the clarification.

Cheers,

Phil

 

[Auditor55]

Not optimal. Limited options. Not where I would have liked to have placed them based on REW room sim.



Not always true. With two ULS subs he won't need a Y adapter or a second antimode. The antimode 8033S-II has two line in's and two line out's. While one of the line out's is 180 degrees out of phase, because the ULS has a phase switch it doesn't matter.

Yes, I checked the manual on the 8033S-II and you are correct, it does have two line in.

 

[speakerman39]

Folks, just to update you all on my desire in taking my LFE to the next level. As such, I am very proud to say that this morning I ordered a B-stock PSA S1500 15" sub and an anti-mode 8033 S II. The reason being, the S1500 comes with a 5-year bumper to bumper warranty and a more advanced Ice amplifier that also comes with more power.

Tom V. has answered all of my questions and has been great to deal with. I ordered this morning and both are on their way to me as we speak. That is what I call customer service! Tom never once was pushy. Just a true gentleman all the way around. Highly recommend.

Cheers,

Phil

 

[fuzz092888]

Folks, just to update you all on my desire in taking my LFE to the next level. As such, I am very proud to say that this morning I ordered a B-stock PSA S1500 15" sub and an anti-mode 8033 S II. The reason being, the S1500 comes with a 5-year bumper to bumper warranty and a more advanced Ice amplifier that also comes with more power.

Tom V. has answered all of my questions and has been great to deal with. I ordered this morning and both are on their way to me as we speak. That is what I call customer service! Tom never once was pushy. Just a true gentleman all the way around. Highly recommend.

Cheers,

Phil

I've gone to the PSA website a few times and chatted with Tom V. Always a pleasure to talk to. I forgot about that deal they run when you buy one of their subs and the break you get on an antimode.

The only issue with the antimode is that IIRC it has no display to show you what the FR looks like or what it did. You still have to have a mic and REW to see what's going on at the main LP and any other LP.

 

[speakerman39]

I've gone to the PSA website a few times and chatted with Tom V. Always a pleasure to talk to. I forgot about that deal they run when you buy one of their subs and the break you get on an antimode.

The only issue with the antimode is that IIRC it has no display to show you what the FR looks like or what it did. You still have to have a mic and REW to see what's going on at the main LP and any other LP.

Fuzz I agree 100%. Tom V. is a pleasure to chat with. He is so very knowledgeable and quite helpful. That is correct that I got a great deal on both the B-stock S1500 and the anti-mode 8033 S II. Lets just say so good I could NOT turn it down.

As far as measuring my in-room frequency response, I plan to slightly go a different route. That is, I am looking at both the Dayton Omnimic and the XTZ Room Analyzer Pro. However, there is a computer glitch for anyone running a Windows 8 machine. Right now I am running Windows 10 and there is very little info on how the Omnimic runs on it. Looking into that further as time allows.

The Analyzer Pro is only $71 more and has my attention. Got to read up on it some more before pulling the trigger. Thinking about ordering a miniDSP as well. Trying to find out if the mic that comes w/the anti-mode 8033 S II will work with the miniDSP. Do you happen to know? If not, then I will get around to ordering a CSL Umik 1. Right now, there is an extended delay on those mics.

Over time, I plan to learn more about REW. That is, learn how to integrate it with the miniDSP. Of course, that is later down the road. Got plenty to do before then. My S1500 and the anti-mode will be here tomorrow or Friday. Got to get ready as space comes in short supply. I am literally up to my eye-balls with speakers.....LOL!!!!

Cheers,

Phil

 

[speakerman39]

UPDATE:

Well folks I got my B-stock PSA S1500 and all I can say is HOLY SMOKES! Just too sweet.....LOL!!!! Absolutely love it! More to come later got to get a bite to eat. Phildog needs food!

Cheers,

Phil