Newbie with question about receiver/amplifier

[spicoli15]

Hey,

New to the site as I was googling receiver vs. amplifier I came upon a thread here and registered for the site. Here is the deal...

My house is under construction and I want to take this time to wire speakers throughout my house before the walls go up.

What I want:
About 8 speakers total
2 in the kitchen
2 in the living room
2 in the family room
2-4 in the masterbedroom/bathroom.

What I have:
In the family room I have a Bose GSX 123 system for my 52 inch TV

Basically not that happy with the Bose and wanted to add more speakers to the mix in that room for true surround sound but apparently you can't add more speakers to the GSX 123 system. I may or may not want to just totally dump the system and get a true 5 speaker system in there.

My Question:
Putting aside that I may or may not switch the speakers in the family room. What should I get for the other 8-10 speakers that are going to go up on the ceilings around the house? A receiver? a Pre-Amplifier? I want to have control of the volume from a central station for each pair of speakers. in the house that I know. The speakers will basically be just for music. I would like to be able to hook my ipod up to a system so I could play off of that too!

Next Question:
The speakers themselves.... any ideas. My contractor likes the Polks for their quality and price. I can get a pair on Ebay that retail for 249 dollars (RC80I) for 144 dollars and free shipping.

Thanks- I Don't know much about receivers and/or amplifiers and want to learn. I appreciate any feedback!

Thanks,
Steve

 

[cfrizz]

Welcome. By all means scrap the Bose system. Now for speakers, I am a Polk fan, I have had my main set of speakers from them for 19 years & they are still going strong.

The RCI's are good and will do the job just fine.

Now as for the receiver vs prepro/amp question, it all comes down to what you want & how much you are willing to spend.

I think the easiest & less expensive way to go is to get a receiver that has all the bells & whistles that you want it to have. Also make sure it has preouts so that if you decide to add separate amplification you can.

Why would you want this? Because receivers don't really put out the power that they say they do. They will achieve it for just 2 channels, but once you start add more channels the power the receiver can give each speaker decreases.

So to make sure your speakers are operating to their full potential it is best to get a separate amp. To do that you either need a receiver with preouts, or go with all separates aka preprocessor and amplifier.

Naturally the receivers with the preouts will cost more money, but in the long run it is worth the expense to have that future upgradebility.

 

[spicoli15]

So a receiver with pre-outs then?

If I get the 4 pairs of RC-80's from Polk that will run me about 600. Looking for a receiver then for about 500-800 dollars. Anyone know a good one to get with all the bells and whistles that has pre-outs?

I guess I will also need other things to go along with this right? like things to control the volume of the different speakers, or is all of this controlled from the receiver? Thanks everyone!

Steve

 

[markw]

For that many speakers in that many rooms, you really want a more specialized system than an "audiophile" home theatre system.

Your Bose, or even a real "Home theatre" system is fine for your main room, but you would be well advised to look upon those other rooms as a separate entity, or at least a separate "zone" off of a "real" home theater receiver with separate amplifiers.

Does this interest you?

 

[spicoli15]

Yes, I am thinking of it as its own entity for sure. Was 4 different just debating whether to scratch the Bose entirely or not. Looking for advice on what to use Receiver and/or amplifier/ preamplifier, etc for 8 to 10 speakers that will be in 4 different rooms on two levels of the house. Want to be able to control volume, etc from one main control panel. Hope this makes since. I don't know to much about these things. Thanks!
Steve

 

[TLS Guy]

Yes, I am thinking of it as its own entity for sure. Was 4 different just debating whether to scratch the Bose entirely or not. Looking for advice on what to use Receiver and/or amplifier/ preamplifier, etc for 8 to 10 speakers that will be in 4 different rooms on two levels of the house. Want to be able to control volume, etc from one main control panel. Hope this makes since. I don't know to much about these things. Thanks!
Steve

Why don't you want to control the speakers in the individual rooms? That is usually a more ergonomic solution.

The usual way of dealing with your problem is to put a receiver in your main TV/home theater area. You can use external amps from the beginning, later or never, as long as you have pre outs. Ditch the Bose by the way.

Make sure the receiver has a zone two and 12 volt triggers. Provide a separate two channel power amp to drive the speakers in the other rooms. Put an impedance matching volume control in each of the rooms to control the volume. If you wanted you could put switches at the central location to switch the rooms in and out. I would not recommend you place the volume controls at the central location. That would not be handy.

 

[spicoli15]

good stuff.. any recommendations on a receiver and the 2 channel power amp? thanks!

 

[TLS Guy]

good stuff.. any recommendations on a receiver and the 2 channel power amp? thanks!

You are asking the wrong guy about receivers. I don't own one and never have. I have a fundamental disagreement with the whole concept of the AV receiver, and feel they are highly limiting, and a badly conceived concept. However there are receiver threads ad nauseam on these forums. You probably could not read them all in a lifetime. So you will have no shortage of advice.

As far as an amp to drive your ceiling speakers you don't need anything exotic.

Seth-L has a Niles unit for sale at a good price, if it is still available, which should do nicely. PM him and see if he still has it for sale.

 

[spicoli15]

TLS... so you wouldn't go with a receiver then? Would you go with a preamplifier? Again, just a newbie when it comes to this stuff

 

[TLS Guy]

TLS... so you wouldn't go with a receiver then? Would you go with a preamplifier? Again, just a newbie when it comes to this stuff

No, I think you probably should get started with a receiver. It is the way that the industry is geared. If however you want an ultimate system, then I don't think a receiver is the route to go. If you click on my signature, it will explain things. I'm content to be the odd man out. I'm not the guy to help you pick a receiver.

 

[Lordoftherings]

* Just a thought.

@ http://www.parasound.com/ParasoundZ/

* For a Receiver & especially made for you.

@ http://www.usa.denon.com/DRA-697CILit.pdf
-> It retails for $600, but can be had for much less, of course.
And it is four (4) Zones capable, with the speakers A & B.
Plus it has two triggers.
Plus it has Main In/Pre Out.
Plus Remote Control In/Out.
Plus it is 4-ohm capable, which means you can run seakers A & B at the same time, if they are about 8-ohm each pair.
Plus it has more too, with the excellent Denon sound, build quality and reliability.

~ Those Bose speakers = No No. Get some nice ones, like Paradigm speakers.

Cheers,
Bob

 

[spicoli15]

There are about 8 different things on that page bob... which ones do I need... remember I am a newbie I need things feed to me lol. thanks!

Steve

 

[bandphan]

If you house is under construction run your speaker wires, 2-cat5-6, 2,3-rg6 to each zone. As for components its all a matter of control. Simple system- AV recevier with 2 zone outputs, an outboard amp and a speaker selector (2 source system 1 for the main and 1 for the zones) little more add a second amp and a 3 zone capable AVR (3 source system) Volume control per room? Keypad Control? MetaData feedback? Its all possible ... Pre done distribution systems like this help with "one box" type solutions. NuVo has a unit that is based on home plug 1.0 and is pretty cool

Just think about what level of control and actual products can be specd

 

[Lordoftherings]

There are about 8 different things on that page bob... which ones do I need... remember I am a newbie I need things feed to me lol. thanks!

Steve

Good morning Steve,

It is Parasound line of all products for home automation systems, with separate amps and more for all your needs.
But I thought that it might be a bit ambiguous for you, so I added up to my post, check above, in my same post (#11) for that nice Denon beauty, you'll love it, and it is the excellent antidote to all your concerns.

Better now?

Bob

 

[spicoli15]

good morning bob... If I get the Denon and decide to let the bose gsx123 go for my home theatre, would I need another receiver just for the home theatre (tv) and if so what would you recommend? thanks so much!

Steve

 

[Lordoftherings]

Suggestion explained.

good morning bob... If I get the Denon and decide to let the bose gsx123 go for my home theatre, would I need another receiver just for the home theatre (tv) and if so what would you recommend? thanks so much!

Steve

Hi again Steve,

From what I understood on your original post, your main system is also a stereo 2-channel system.

If so, that Denon Stereo receiver would be able to control four (4) zones total.
But not at the same time, 2 zones at the same time would be possible, using speakers A & B, but you would have to use the same source, meaning the same music would be playing at the same time in two different zones.
And with the Bose spakers, which are easy to operate, no problem here.
(But I really wish that you get at least some Polk speakers.)

Now, that Denon receiver would be installed in your main zone (the living room), and for two additional zones, you'll still need two stereo power amps, using the zone 2 & 3 preouts.
Don't you already have an old stereo receiver or two, or some integrated amp or power amp? I f you have any of those, you can use them for your additional zones (2 & 3).
If not, you'll need two power amps, that you can easily find at Audiogon for very cheap, as you don't need powerful amps.
I'll bet you can get two of those for less than $100.
You can buy some older integrated amps with 40 watts a side for about $40.
So, two of them, can be easily found for less that $100.

Conclusion: With that Denon receiver, the DRA-697CI, the speakers A are the main zone (zone #1, your living room), the speakers B are the zone #4.
And the preouts for the zones #2 and #3, are just that. And you'll be able to listen to another source in the zones (#2 & #3), different than the one playing in zone #1, your living room.

Hopefully, I made it clear enough for you to understand.

* There are tons of different options to perform the same tasks, but I just give you one of them, that appeals personally to me, and might appeals to you too.

~ I just can recall your total budget for four zones, consisting of all the amplifiers required, plus eight to ten speakers for the total system.
But with my suggestion to you, it could be had for roughly about $900, perhaps just a bit more or a bit less.

Is that would make you happy Steve?

Cheers,
Bob

 

[AVRat]

A HT receiver like the Onkyo 806 and a 2-channel amp like the Behringer A500 will have you covered power wise. From the amp, you run 14-4 speaker wire to an impedance matching volume control in each area then normal 14-2 speaker wire to each speaker. For ease of hook-up, you could use a speaker hub between the amp and VCs.

 

[Lordoftherings]

Hey,

New to the site as I was googling receiver vs. amplifier I came upon a thread here and registered for the site. Here is the deal...

My house is under construction and I want to take this time to wire speakers throughout my house before the walls go up.

What I want:
About 8 speakers total
2 in the kitchen
2 in the living room
2 in the family room
2-4 in the masterbedroom/bathroom.

What I have:
In the family room I have a Bose GSX 123 system for my 52 inch TV

Basically not that happy with the Bose and wanted to add more speakers to the mix in that room for true surround sound but apparently you can't add more speakers to the GSX 123 system. I may or may not want to just totally dump the system and get a true 5 speaker system in there.

My Question:
Putting aside that I may or may not switch the speakers in the family room. What should I get for the other 8-10 speakers that are going to go up on the ceilings around the house? A receiver? a Pre-Amplifier? I want to have control of the volume from a central station for each pair of speakers. in the house that I know. The speakers will basically be just for music. I would like to be able to hook my ipod up to a system so I could play off of that too!

Next Question:
The speakers themselves.... any ideas. My contractor likes the Polks for their quality and price. I can get a pair on Ebay that retail for 249 dollars (RC80I) for 144 dollars and free shipping.

Thanks- I Don't know much about receivers and/or amplifiers and want to learn. I appreciate any feedback!

Thanks,
Steve

All right Steve,

I decided to quote your first post, as it was on a different page, and could not be accessed so easily.

* The wind has now shifted. LOL.

1. Dump that bose system. LOL, you'll be better off.
2. Get a new set of surround speakers (5.1 or 7.1, up to you). But, get that sub.
3. Get a Surround Receiver (7.1-channel).
4. Get six or eight (6 or 8) extra speakers for the additional zones.
5. Get many feet of speaker wires.
6. Get two pair of very long analog interconnect RCA cables.
7. Get two additinal power amps (like I just mentioned on my above post).
8. Get some help from someone in the knows about multizones, or multiroom installation with the proper connections.

* Now:
1. Zone #1, is the Family room, where your 52" TV set is, and where the 7.1-channel receiver will be installed. You will be running a 5.1-channel surround system in that Family room. * The two extra amps from that receiver will be powering zone #2 in your house.
2. Zone #2, is the Living room. You'll be installing two speakers in that room, that will be powered by the Surround Receiver from Zone #1.
3. Zone #3, is the Kitchen area. You'll also be installing two speakers in your kicthen, that will need to be powered by an external Stereo power amplifier, or Stereo integrated amplifier, or even a Stereo Receiver.
4. Zone #4, is the Master Bedroom. Also there, you'll need an additional amp, just as in Zone #3. And two speakers there as well, of course.
5. Zone #5, is the walk-in Bathroom from your Master Bedroom. You'll need two waterproof speakers for that Zone #5. That Zone will be powered by the external amp from Zone #4, which will have two sets of speakers (speakers A & B).

* Now:
Ingredients + costs. The fun part.
1. A Surround Receiver with 7 power amps, and two Zones capability with the appropriate preouts, with triggers.
Me, personally, I just love the Marantz SR6001, for the tremendous value that it presently offers, and for the superb performance and build quality.
It is a $1,200 receiver that you can get for only $349.99
~ Here: @ http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/MARSR6001/Marantz/SR6001-receiver-100w-x-7ch-HDMI-home-theater-surround/1.html

Info: @ http://us.marantz.com/Products/2080.asp#
~ There are others, but let's play around this one for now, as I believe that it can be the master chief of the house.

2. A 5.1-channel surround speaker system for the Main room (Family room). Five separate speakers, plus one subwoofer. Lots of choices here.
I let this area blank for now, as other members can chime in with their suggestions. We'll try to get the full 5.1 system for around $500 or perhaps even less for a used one or a heavily discounted one. How's that Steve?
Here's the blank space for that: ...................................................

3. We need eight (8) additional speakers for the four (4) extra zones.
Again here, I'll leave a blank spot. But we'll try to limit ourselves to a budget of approximatively $400, or even less for some exeptional deals that can be found here and everywhere. And remember Steve, that these dollars #s, are just that, a maximum limit that we set ourselves together, with a realistic approach, for a certain decent amount of overall audio quality performance
Here's the that blank spot: ...........................................................

4. We need these two additional Stereo power amplifiers with two set of speaker's binding posts. Here also, I'll leave that space opened for other members to chime in with their exceptional finds, that's how much I trust their integrity. Our budget here for two amps (don't need much power here, 40-50 watts a side would do just fine, even 30 watts per channel is fine; but one of these needs to be 4-ohm capable, for best results), so a budget of about let's say $200 for both? Sounds reasonable to you Steve?
But I'm sure my fellow members will come up with even better deals than that.
It's just a # figure right now, so we have a base from what we can start.
Here's that open space: ...............................................................

5. Speaker's cables for the Main Zone, and all the four additional zones.
Here, we'll be buying in bulk. Blu Jeans Cable, will be our supplier.
You'll have to figure out Steve, how many feet total you'll need for all your house's zones, taking into consideration all the corners, obstacles in the walls, plus all that stuff, you know. Just add an extra 50 feet or so to your grand total. When we'll determine how many feet we need, we'll know the price.

6. Two very long analog stereo interconnect RCA cables. Again, Blue Jeans Cable is our supplier. Check how many feet you need Steve, from the receiver in the Family room to the amp in the Kitchen, that's one.
And again how many feet from the receiver to the amp in the Master Bedroom, that's the second one. We'll check the price later.

*** Did I forget anything?

Recap: From what I can see now, things are coming very good together, isn't it Steve?
The maximum budget (parts for the ENTIRE SYSTEM) is roughly about $1,750 USA. But, this is the very maximum Steve, it's only a rough estimate, that we will try all together, to decrease to the very minimum possible, say maybe $1500 or even a bit less. Is that resonable Steve?

OK, now, let's see what people can come up with, to complete our project.
We now have draw all the plans, and what we now need are the best deals around, plus eventually Mr. Audio Installer himself, and his total cost for installing the wiring and speakers in those additional zones, right Steve?
We wouldn't want to try that by ourselves, right Steve?

Now, let's just shoot it people; we're ready.

Hi ha,
Bob

 

[spicoli15]

wow,

Great stuff Bob I really do appreciate all the time, effort, and thinking that went into that last post. Impressive to say the least. I would have to go around different stores for about 3 weeks to get the knowledge and honest opinions you set up in a matter of minutes.

Upon further review..... I, unfortunately, have to keep the Bose 321 GSX in the family room and that is to be, at least for now.... my home threatre unit.

I am, however, going to put up a sound system in 4 rooms and will be doing it as follows...

2 in the family room (where the TV and Bose also is
2 in the living room
2 in the master bedroom
1 in the master bathroom
1 in the kitchen

and two free Polk speakers in the Computer room that will also house the receiver.

I went to Radioshack today because a friend of mine knows the manager and he gave me a list of what he felt I needed. I took the list and with his advice went to www.crutchfield.com where I took my list and sorted out the receivers based on things I wanted (like ipod connection, A/B switch for speakers, Stanard receiver- no surround sound needed, etc). Then I called them up on the phone and I ended up getting the following items. I hope I did well... your thoughts...

Items I ordered today...

580TX8555 Onkyo TX8555 Stereo Receiver

190VCSHUB8 Niles VCS HUB8 8 Speaker Pairs Distribution Block

190VCS1HRW Niles VCS100R White Stereo Volume Control w/Impedance Mag
5 of them

107RC80I Polk Audio RC80i Pair 8" 2-Way In-Ceiling Speakers
6 of them (3 pairs)

107RC6S Polk Audio RC6S Each 6.5" In-Ceiling Stereo Input Speaker
2 of them (1 for kitchen, 1 for Master bathroom) Since I only have 1 speaker in those rooms I got the speaker that has stereo sound instead of splitting a left and right Polk RC80i in those rooms

580DSA2X Onkyo DSA2x iPOD Dock Remote Interactive Dock
Perfect for the ipod.

107OWM3B Polk Audio OWM3 (BK) Pair Mult Multi-purpose Speakers
Came free because I ordered over 400 dollars worth of Polk speakers. I will put these into the computer room where the receiver is.

What do you think? My contractors are going to set it all up and said they will even wire it at no cost to me.

 

[Lordoftherings]

wow,

Great stuff Bob I really do appreciate all the time, effort, and thinking that went into that last post. Impressive to say the least. I would have to go around different stores for about 3 weeks to get the knowledge and honest opinions you set up in a matter of minutes.

Upon further review..... I, unfortunately, have to keep the Bose 321 GSX in the family room and that is to be, at least for now.... my home threatre unit.

I am, however, going to put up a sound system in 4 rooms and will be doing it as follows...

2 in the family room (where the TV and Bose also is
2 in the living room
2 in the master bedroom
1 in the master bathroom
1 in the kitchen

and two free Polk speakers in the Computer room that will also house the receiver.

I went to Radioshack today because a friend of mine knows the manager and he gave me a list of what he felt I needed. I took the list and with his advice went to www.crutchfield.com where I took my list and sorted out the receivers based on things I wanted (like ipod connection, A/B switch for speakers, Stanard receiver- no surround sound needed, etc). Then I called them up on the phone and I ended up getting the following items. I hope I did well... your thoughts...

Items I ordered today...

580TX8555 Onkyo TX8555 Stereo Receiver

190VCSHUB8 Niles VCS HUB8 8 Speaker Pairs Distribution Block

190VCS1HRW Niles VCS100R White Stereo Volume Control w/Impedance Mag
5 of them

107RC80I Polk Audio RC80i Pair 8" 2-Way In-Ceiling Speakers
6 of them (3 pairs)

107RC6S Polk Audio RC6S Each 6.5" In-Ceiling Stereo Input Speaker
2 of them (1 for kitchen, 1 for Master bathroom) Since I only have 1 speaker in those rooms I got the speaker that has stereo sound instead of splitting a left and right Polk RC80i in those rooms

580DSA2X Onkyo DSA2x iPOD Dock Remote Interactive Dock
Perfect for the ipod.

107OWM3B Polk Audio OWM3 (BK) Pair Mult Multi-purpose Speakers
Came free because I ordered over 400 dollars worth of Polk speakers. I will put these into the computer room where the receiver is.

What do you think? My contractors are going to set it all up and said they will even wire it at no cost to me.

What can I say Steve? You did excellent my man!
All your components are just fine, I don't have anything to add.
I respect your decision, and you did have some advice from your friend's friend, the manager from Radio Shack. And Crutchfield is a great place to shop, the people there are very friendly and helpful. Plus this is a very reputable place, where they don't try to impose on you and with great service, always fair, prompt, efficient, courteous, and good deals too.

You're all set already (well, almost), just need the installer to put all things together,
that's about it.

Do you have another home, where you will like to install a multizone audio/video system?

I see now that I got my work cut off.

Now my turn. I only have one question, before you tell me later on how please you are with your new audio multiroom system, after it is all finished, installed and running. How much total (before taxes), did you end up paying?
Only respond if you want to, and I hope that it does not in any way intrude on your private affairs.

Very glad to have that chat with you Steve.
Oh, and by the way, my above post did not take me only a few minutes, it took me just about over two hours. You have to realise too Steve, that I can only type with one finger at a time, and I'm also French, so I have to use my dictionary a lot.

Cheers Steve buddy,
Bob