Whoa now, first of all my thin air numbers weren't meant to be scientific in the first place. Any reference to failure rates was actually meant to help your side of this "debate" and not mine. When I mentioned my fictional failure rates, which I can't seem to find at the moment, I believe I was using them to emphasize the fact that when I said more than the other brands or whatever that the percent of units having issues is still very small compared the total number shipped. I don't have hard numbers nor do I suspect that any company would provide those to me, so if you can get them I'd love to see them.
Like I said multiple times, the things I said were only in my opinion based on things I've read (forums, "owner" reviews, and others directly advising me) and from the opinions of those who have advised me directly. All of which have far more experience and knowledge to draw upon than I. Again, as I said above, one should always take whatever information they are getting with a bit of skepticism, but I see no reason why there isn't a speck of truth coming from other forum members who have members for a long time with thousands of posts, thousands of thanks, and a generally good reputation for giving advice. To say that I'm wrong for listening to them would make it equally valid to say that I would be wrong as would check for listening to you.
As for the comparison, that's my fault and I should have been more clear. My point in using the SC-37 as the comparison to all else wasn't that I was comparing apples to oranges, anyone with half a brain and eyes for that matter could see that not only did I preface my comparisons saying things like however the SC-37 is three times the price and so on and so forth, but to demonstrate what that extra money buys.
Check stated money isn't an obstacle and that he would be willing to buy something more expensive if it was worth it. I had that in mind when I was showing him the numbers, pretty much saying this is what more money gets you. Although, personally I don't think I compared quite apples to oranges in the first place, when the price gap was wide I stated that, and then I tried to find two more onkyo AVRs that were close to price and wpc rated that I could find data for. I only used the ratings for the 609 to state that the 809, which is closer in price and rating (albeit still much less expensive), would probably have about the same efficiency since they are in the same line. I couldn't find bench tests for the 5009, so I used the 5008 and then finished that thought by saying that it appears the amp in the 5009 is much improved but still not at the level of the pioneer.
As for the $500 receiver putting out 80% at 5 channels, yes I don't disagree at all that's pretty good. My contention was that isn't what I would consider beefy (again IMO) and that the pioneer is what I would consider beefy for an AVR. Given that the pioneer and others can do what they do without as many of the overheating issues (granted the pioneer is class D), I stated that IMO it is probably due to something gone awry, or skimped on somewhere. That being said there are more than a few people who didn't read the manual and stuck them in confined places, which you already said, so.....um agreed.
Finally, as for your suggestions, all good and valid, but a model year older Pioneer SC-35 can be had for $750 on audiogon. Should put up slightly better efficiency ratings and have most of the features the others mentioned offered. Just another one to add to your list.
As for the debate, I didn't realize we were having one. I was merely giving an alternate point of view and suggestions. So, yea. I guess that about sums it up for me as well.
