Newbie problem- Cannot get center channel to sound like it is from TV screen.

[tman]

I'm trying to put off buying new bookshelf speakers. Instead using Advent LegacyII for L,R in HT and am trying to experiment with Advent Baby as a center channel. Because it's not magnetically shielded I have to place Baby upside down on top of the TV (tweeter is below woofer) not too far from ear level. The tweeters of L,R "floorstanders" are not at ear level so those speakers are aimed upwards right now.

Set up this way, the center channel dialogue sounds like it is coming from the center speaker, not the screen itself. I cannot localize left or right. The TV itself is small (20"), compared to the speaker ~16-18".

Any suggestions how to get the center channel dialogue to come from the screen?

Will raising the L,R so they are at ear level help?
Will putting the center channel just under the TV be any better than just above it?
Will angling center speaker down help in any way?
I have 2 Advent Babys. Would it help to place then in a line 1 above and 1 below the screen run in parallel from reciever or will this make some problem?
Do I have more severe problem of imaging? If so what is best fix without replace equipment.
I think there is some cabinet resonance in center channel. Will using No Rez help improve imaging significantly?
I will get a 40" LCD to replace 20" TV within the year. Will this reduce problem or make worse?

Thanks for any inputs.

 

[flyv65]

Are you using all these speakers as part of a 5.1 system? Have properly set up the speakers (distance, balance, etc.)? How far above the TV is the center channel? How far away from the TV do you sit? FWIW, when I run my DBS through the prepro in stereo (2 ch) the sound is directly centered on the screen: with 5.1 the sound should indeed "surround". I'm not familiar with your speakers, but I've found mine aren't VERY picky about ear level, but do respond to being directed. I picked up a few door wedges from Ace Hardware's bargain bin und use them to "tip" my center so its pointing closer to the sweet spot (my center channel is about 2 feet above ear level). You can also try adjusting the toe in of your fronts to improve the sound staging.

I wouldn't typically raise or lower any speaker unless they are blocked by a piece of furniture: but tipping them is a pretty easily accomplished, and alot cheaper than buying/building new stands.

Bryan...Sorry for the "stream of thought" posting, but I hope its still understandable...

 

[tman]

Sorry, wasn't clear-- issue is localization in vertical direction

Am using in 5 channel surround (soon to be 5.1). Problem is not imaging in horizontal direction (Left-Right) but fact that you can pick out the center channel speaker as being above the screen rather than sound coming from the screen. I am wondering if by placement I can reduce this. I am wondering whether if speakers (tweeters and/or woofers) are closer to each other in height if it will be harder to localize sound in vertical direction. I am going to get bigger screen and suspect things will get worse. I was thinking to put speakers above and below screen to try to anchor on screen but that is not good idea.

I've already followed all the typical guidelines for optimizing the setup of system including toe-in and angling. Don't see much guidance regarding the vertical direction other than angling and trying to put speaker closer to TV.

I was also under impression that you can localize sound better from tweeter vs. woofer, but since the woofer is handling mid-range I'm curious which one you should try to keep closer to the TV. In my case I have to keep tweeter closer due to unshielded magnet (screen turns green other way around). To place speaker sideways I need to build shielding.

THanks for any advise!

 

[Swerd]

Problem is not imaging in horizontal direction (Left-Right) but fact that you can pick out the center channel speaker as being above the screen rather than sound coming from the screen.

Because it's not magnetically shielded I have to place the Advent Baby upside down on top of the TV (tweeter is below woofer) not too far from ear level. The tweeters of L,R "floorstanders" are not at ear level so those speakers are aimed upwards right now.

Set up this way, the center channel dialogue sounds like it is coming from the center speaker, not the screen itself.

Will angling center speaker down help in any way?

I will get a 40" LCD to replace 20" TV within the year. Will this reduce problem or make worse?

Listen to this speaker mounted upside down while you move vertically, up and down. You might find the best sounding area aimed somewhat above the speaker. If so, angle it forward while on top of the TV. It may be hard to keep it from falling over in that position.

I tried googleing this speaker but found no info about its crossover design. Most crossovers from that time caused the sound in the middle of the crossover range to be angled down somewhat. Many people dealt with that by angling the speaker back by about 10 or 15 degrees. Because you have the speaker upside down, do the opposite.

Once you get the LCD TV, magnetic interference from a nearby speaker will not be a problem and you can put the speaker upright and angled back.

 

[markw]

First off, most center speakers are thin and horizontially oriented so the speaker can be mounted very close to the screen so the sound eminates from a plane very, very close to the picture, either right below or right above. By using a standard bokshelf speaker, you've got that going against you to start with.

Second, if you've ever listened to your speakers closely, you would have noticed that most of the sound comes from the woofer, which, by your first post, is mounted as far away from the screen as possible in your setup, thereby increasing the distance from the picture. Strike two

Third, proportions have all to do with this. With a larger screen, the speaker "blends" more into the illusion (and that's all it is) that the sound is coming from he screen. With a tiny 20" screen like that, it's easy for the sound to overpower the video, particularly when the main source of the sound is as far away from the screen as possible.

Your best bet now is to do away with the center speaker and attempt some some of phantom center setup.

 

[Swerd]

Your center channel speaker, a 2-way, will project most of its sound forward when either the woofer or the tweeter is producing the sound.

When the sound produced is near the crossover frequency, both the woofer and tweeter will contribute more or less equally. With a typical flat baffle, like on your center channel speaker, this will create a lobe of sound angled downward as in the left side of my diagram.

One way to fix this problem is to lean the speaker back. Another way is to use an offset baffle, as shown on the right side of my diagram.

Because your center speaker is upside down (woofer on top), try angling it forwards (as well as you can) so that the lobe is pointed toward the listener.

Edit: Here is another attempt at a diagram. The left side shows the main lobes and cancellations that occur with a typical 2-way crossover when sound is produced by both the woofer and tweeter, when the tweeter is above the woofer. On the right side I drew the speaker with the woofer on top.