Newbie looking for Multi-Zone Receiver and Remote Solution

[Bluewaterrocket]

OBJECTIVE: Identify optimal multi zone receiver and remote control configuration for new home construction

First post on the Forum - looks like a great resource.

My house burned down last September and I'm in the process of building a new home. I've worked in IT for 30 years, and have dome some initial design for comm equipment, network, surveillance, cable runs etc. I'm far from being an audiophile or videophile, but am looking for an optimal solution to manage A/V throughout my new home. The "Presentation Layer" in my house will consist of:

• LED TV with 5.1 surround sound speakers in main living area
• LED TV and speakers on rear deck
• LED TV with speaker bar in Master Bedroom
• LED TV with speaker bar in Office/guest bedroom
• Ceiling mounted speakers in Master Bath

I'll have a dedicated, 4'x6' walk-in closet serving as my comm room. This closet/comm-room will have a sub panel to ensure adequate power, and an air-return and vent to manage the thermal environment. All A/V equipment will be installed in a 70" tall Mid-Atlantic Pivot Rack. All Cat 6 wires originate in this closet from a wall mounted patch panel to support HDMI and LAN. I'll also run speaker wire from this room as well. The intent is to have all A/V equipment sans monitors and speakers in this room. Equipment in the room will include:

• Multiple (min. 2, max of 4) Cable Boxes/DVR ( may possibly changed to satellite)
• Multi Zone A/V Receiver System (looking for recommendation)
• Apple TV
• Roku
• PS3 (BluRay player)
• Cisco EA4500 Router
• Cisco 16 Port Gigabit Switch
• Cisco Telephone Adapter
• Surveillance System (TBD)
• HDMI Switch (if needed)
• Addl. Network Devices e.g. SANS, & PC to serve network storage and media servers

I've been pretty overwhelmed dealing with insurance company, builder, permitting authorities, lenders cabinet companies, appliance vendors, etc. and have not invested sufficient time to fully understand all the issues and research available products for a multi-zone receiver & remote control solution. My hope is I can leverage the experience base of this forum to point me towards an optimal solution.

I've had a Harmony One for the past couple years, and it's served us well for our limited needs; however, after purchasing some new a/v equipment after the fire I've learned that the Harmony One does have some quirks and limitations depending upon the A/V equipment you're using (e.g. Vizio 65" Smart LED 3D) My instinct tells me that an RF or WiFI remote solution would likely be the best approach for my configuration, but I'm not familiar with available products or device configurations. Looking for suggestions/recommendations on a remote control solution to control devices centrally located in my comm room.

BTW - I'm not opposed to having local remotes for two of the TVs (Office & Master Bedroom), but would like to have a centralized distribution and remote A/V solution for my living area and back deck audio and TV. If a single type of remote will work for all, then great. Having multiple redundant remotes for each room is not a problem. I would like 1 type of remote system from the living area and deck to control Cable/Satellite Box, AV Receiver, Apple TV, Roku, PS3, and Surveillance system. Everyone in my family has an iPhone, as well as a couple iPads within the family.

Any help/suggestions/words-of-wisdom will be appreciated.

Thanks,

Jim

 

[BMXTRIX]

What you are describing that you want is a centralized distributed system, and it may require a lot more equipment than what you have listed. An A/V receiver will handle a single surround area. Better ones can send out HDMI to a second TV or a second receiver, but that's as far as they go. They don't really handle duties for more than a few zones and start getting complex in their setups.

You have described needing FOUR outputs for video alone, along with another area just for audio. I would ask first, is that really it? Do you really only want one additional zone of stereo audio beyond the four TVs? If building, I would take this rare opportunity to put speakers everywhere you could dream of, or at least wiring for such. I recently retroed a home with 14 audio zones. Only two of them have TVs, but the dining room, living room, garage, master bathroom, and other areas were added for music during parties. That wiring was over half the labor involved in the installation due to the complexity of retro fitting wires into the home. It would have taken 1/4 the time had the home been new construction wiring.

That said, you will need a HDMI matrix switcher, and the quality falls right in line with what you pay. Monoprice HDMI matrix switchers suck. I've seen other ones which are not much better. The best ones carry a hefty price tag. Expect to pay about $5,000 for a 8x8 HDMI matrix switcher.

That will get your video switched, and if it is a REALLY good switcher (even more $$$) then it will handle ensuring that HD audio is available to the surround zone while other areas receive analog audio. That's a huge HDMI issue.

The Roku does NOT have a secondary output for analog audio I believe, nor does the AppleTV. Those issues will need to be addressed. The best HDMI switcher I know of (Crestron) will actually de-embed HD audio, and scale it to 2-channel stereo audio for stereo zones. A lot more than $5,000 for that puppy, but it really does what you can imagine.

You will want to have multiple cat cables to all TVs in rooms, and if you want any local devices (Blu-ray, aux inputs), then you will want to pull extra cat cabling to them for off-network use (video, control, etc.).

You will also need some type of preamp for the audio switching and matrixing as well as amplifiers for the stereo zones.

That 14 zone setup I did used a 43 space rack with a rear mounted 16 port switch on it. The preference is to NEVER move your equpment rack but get it in a location where you can get behind it and sit down behind it to work on it. If you must have it on wheels, bring the cables in HIGH, leave about 20' of slack on every cable you bring into the rack, and dress them in properly so they can flow back and forth as the rack is moved without getting caught under it in any manner.

Your situation is not unique, but it is still pretty pricey to achieve what you are after. I have avoided the HDMI matrix at this point in favor of component video distribution. It works reliably and was a heck of a lot less expensive.

 

[Bluewaterrocket]

Thanks for the reply BMXTRIX. I'm running quite a bit of CAT 6 throughout the house from the COMM Closet to accommodate HDMI, LAN, Surveillance Cameras, etc. I'm also running speaker wire from the COMM closet to all speakers in the house.

I'm thinking I will only distribute two of the HDMI outputs from a central location to two TVs in two separate zones. I believe that can be accomplished with a multi-zone a/v receiver w/o introducing an HDMI matrix switch. My other two TVs will likely be managed with local remotes and cable boxes in each room. With that said, what kind of remote(s) system can I use to control the multizone receiver(e.g. Pioneer Elite SC-67), cable/satellite, PS3, Roku, and Apple TV components stored in the COMM Closet ? Is there an RF or WiFi solution that will enable me to control my IR and BT devices in the closet remotely? Something similar to the Activity Profiles on my Logitech Harmony One? e.g. Watch TV in Living Room, Watch TV on Deck, Watch Roku on Deck, etc.

 

[BMXTRIX]

BT devices suck for control. They tend to have proprietary remotes and don't play well with others... unless they pick the others they want to play with.

IR and RS-232 is THE way to go for controlling devices. Some can work with IP, but it requires the network to be up and performing well and equipment that plays nicely with IP.

ALWAYS pull extra cables for control and unexpected future needs. I generally pull at least 3 to a display locations - one CAT-6A STP cable for long haul HDMI over Cat cabling, and one for control of the devices from the head end system, and the last for networking. So, that's the minimum. I actually pull 4 most of the time so there is a 'just in case' wire.

Two zones can be done with integrated HDMI matrixes on products such as the Denon AVR-3313CI or the Marantz 7701 receivers. As I type this right now I just setup a 7701 to feed a 120" rear projection setup and a 65" Samsung LCD. I am using a SECOND A/V receiver to decode surround for the second zone. Seems to be working right now.

Still, I'm not sure that the Denon won't have (potentially) the same issue regarding surround sound if connected directly to a TV. It will likely try to convert from surround sound to stereo. Not good if you want the best quality audio, but I have not tested this yet.