Newbie in need of advice and opinions please.

[John Gavio]

Hello I have a pair of Focal Chorus 836 V's and a Pioneer Elite SX-A9-J stereo receiver. All have been in storage since I purchased them in 2008 as I have been living abroad. My question is whether the stereo receiver can be considered 'good enough' or 'a good match' for the Focals? I have been reading that the Focals will not sound as good as they can if the amp is not up to par, or that there are 'better' amps that would make the Focals sound better. I am bloody ignorant in this as you might have gleaned and so any and all help would be greatly appreciated. Should I buy a more 'appropriate' amp? If so suggestions please. I thank you for you time and consideration.

 

[markw]

First off, how does that combination sound to you? That is a fine receiver but more power might not be a bad idea, but if you can play them as loud as you want without hearing nasty sounds, then you're all set.

Second, if you really think your current receiver is that bad, you can always "try" more esoteric amp, but be very aware of your vendor's return policy and keep all packing materials until you know you like it. If anything, it would be power you're looking for.

 

[John Gavio]

Many thanks for your input. I do not think that the receiver is bad, I had just read that perhaps something like a Pioneer would not be, for lack of a better term, at the same level as the Focals or another option re amp or receiver. As for how it sounds to me, well I felt that there was not enough bass, and that the mid and tweeter were a bit too bright or crashy (not sue if that is even a word). Not sure If I am making any sense? I had thought of perhaps adding a subwoofer? My preferred genre of music is hard rock and was told when I purchased the Focals and the Pioneer that they were fine (in terms of the amount of money I was spending - I would have been a fool to spend more I was told). All in all I am pretty happy except for the lack of bass and the high ends (yes I have the treble toned down considerably). What say you? Thanks again.

 

[markw]

You just pointed out the main problem with deciding what's right for you based on what "they" say.

Your speakers do present a somewhat difficult load and, from what you say here, you can hear it's lack of power. You might want to consider a more powerful stereo amp, or a preamp and power amp. If you're gonna go for more power, go big. Baby steps won't do a thing.

but, in spite of the lack of power, it just might be the signature sound of the speakers that you are not comfortable with. They are fine speakers but all speakers are designed for their creator's taste, and tastes vary.

What's your budget for an amp, keeping in mind that you may wind up returning it. No amount of power can make a speaker you can't really live with better. That's a horse of a different color.

But, a GOOD sub can always find a place in any system. It won't do squat for the higs though.

 

[John Gavio]

Again thank you for your reply. Budget would be whatever is reasonable to get what I need (if I need to spend $3,000 - $5,000 I can and will, so long as I end up with something approaching my ideal sound - I know: easier said than done). I would like to try a sub first (or perhaps two? What do you think?). Any recommendations for decent subs at around $1,000 each? Or perhaps I should just go ahead and scrap what I have (since it has been in storage since 2008 and so is somewhat dated) and buy new speakers and a preamp and power amp? I really do not know what the best option is, though i can see which options are getting increasingly costlier. I just want a really nice sounding 2-channel system to listen to my rock music. Cheapest seems buying subs (but may not be a solution re the highs); a more powerful amp is second; and third is a brand new system. I need to consider the pros and cons, aside from monetary considerations, of each - especially trying subs (which would not be a waste if I decided to go with option 2 or 3 eventually. I thank you for your patience, time and kind consideration.

 

[KEW]

I'm a little concerned about your description of "crashy" treble!
That sounds like it may be clipping. Are you playing them fairly loud when this happens?
Try backing down the volume and listening carefully to see if the treble problems clear up. If they do, a stouter amp may be in order. Like Mark said, be sure you can return the amp if it doesn't help!
If the treble is still not right, you should replace speakers. I don't know any way to fix bad treble.
Did the speakers sound good when you decided to buy them?
Focal is a respected speaker company. They generally are not terribly strong on bass, but the mids and highs should be very good.

If a stronger amp fixes the treble, next you'll want a sub. Ideally, a receiver that has bass management would be good to have. If you get to this point, let us know and we can advise you on subs and how to set them up.

As Mark said, you can always find a home for a good sub, so it is worth testing the benefit of a sub.

 

[John Gavio]

Perhaps "crashy" is too strong a word. All I know is that the first night, back in 2008, that I installed them and the first track I listened to was "Time" by Pink Floyd - and you know the part where all the alarms go off at once? Well I blew one of the tweeters. Unbelievable, first song, just finished installing. The volume was very loud (about 50% or a bit more if memory serves) and it just cut out. Next day the store I purchased them from picked it up and two days later I had a new tweeter. What would have caused this? Thank you for your time and kind consideration.

 

[KEW]

Below are manufacturer's specs for the Focals. I highlighted the relevant specs.
Too much power would fry the tweeter, but since your amp is rated at 70 Watts, and Focal specifies 180 watts RMS, I doubt that is the case. I am surprised the Pioneer does not have more complete specs. They just say 70WPC without indicating if it is RMS. Nor do they give power ratings for 6 or 4 ohm ratings.

The other thing that will blow a tweeter is clipping of the amp. Given the specs below and knowing the speaker drops to 3 ohms at 110Hz, I think you are underpowering those speakers and they are clipping. These speakers need a strong amp with the ability to handle 4 ohms without hiccuping!

Type Colonne 3 voies bass-reflex
Haut-parleurs 3 x graves Polyglass 165mm
Médium Polyglass 165 mm
Tweeter inversé TNV Al/Mg 25 mm
Réponse en fréquence (+/- 3 dB) 40 Hz - 28 kHz
Réponse à - 6 dB 33 Hz
Sensibilité (2,83 V / 1 m) 92 dB
Impédance nominale 8 ohms
Impédance minimale (@25°C) 3 ohms @ 110 Hz
Puissance max. 250 W
Puissance RMS 180 W
Fréquence de filtrage 250 Hz / 3 000 Hz
Dimensions (HxLxP) 1148 x 282 x 375 mm
Poids 30 kg

Note, I would appreciate confirmation or correction from someone with more experience with this. I am a little out of my comfort zone making these conclusions.

 

[markw]

In case you don't have one, here's a copy of your owners manual.

http://www.pioneerelectronics.ca/pio/pe/images/portal/cit_11221/403519030SXA93OperatingInstructions0122.pdf

Looking around it, you got lucky: It has preamp outputs.

This means you can get just a power amp and use this receiver as a preamp.

Now, that opens up some pretty good possibilities, and they may not break the bank.

Emotiva is a fairly popular name around here and they offer a comprehensive line of amps, many two channel amps that pack a wallop and don't break the bank. Of course, there are many, many other more expensive boutique brands that cost more but remember, a lot of this hobby is based on image and perception as opposed to technical wizardry.

the XPA-200 seems to be just what you're looking for but they offer quite a wide range of amplifiers. some more powerful almost to the point of insanity. A friend of mine we using these to drive a pair of Magnapan 1.6's for a while and it handled them with aplomb, and they aren't an easy speaker to drive, either.

Here's a link to the amplifier section of their site. Poke around there for a bit.

https://emotiva.com/products/amplifiers/xpa-2

 

[John Gavio]

Many many thanks to you both. I have considered using the Pioneer as a preamp. I also have looked at Emotive and they certainly seem to be very reasonable. Question: If I wanted to add a subwoofer or two after having used the Line Out in the Pioneer for the power amp how would I go about connecting? I had figured that the simplest way of connecting a sub would have been via the same connections that would now be used for the power amp. I have read and read about connecting subs and it all seems so bloody complicated. I would worry about damaging the system. So what would be the best way to connect in my case? Again many thanks to you both for your help, it is very much appreciated kind Sirs.

 

[markw]

It's simple. You can split the signal out of the line outs into two paths: One to the power amp and the other to the subwoofer.

A pair of these, one for each channel, will serve you well.

http://www.amazon.com/Mediabridge-ULTRA-RCA-Y-Adapter-Inches/dp/B005DL2OVE/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1441869593&sr=1-1&keywords=mediabridge+y+splitter+for+rca+connectors

Plug the male into the preamp outs on the receiver and then connect your sub and power amp into the two female ends. No, you won't damage anything. This is how I (and many others) have done this for years.

...just make sure that whatever sub you wind up with has both a right and left line level input. Some subs come with one lonely LFE input and that's a total hassle.

 

[PENG]

Below are manufacturer's specs for the Focals. I highlighted the relevant specs.
Too much power would fry the tweeter, but since your amp is rated at 70 Watts, and Focal specifies 180 watts RMS, I doubt that is the case. I am surprised the Pioneer does not have more complete specs. They just say 70WPC without indicating if it is RMS. Nor do they give power ratings for 6 or 4 ohm ratings.

The other thing that will blow a tweeter is clipping of the amp. Given the specs below and knowing the speaker drops to 3 ohms at 110Hz, I think you are underpowering those speakers and they are clipping. These speakers need a strong amp with the ability to handle 4 ohms without hiccuping!



Note, I would appreciate confirmation or correction from someone with more experience with this. I am a little out of my comfort zone making these conclusions.

I thought you were spot on. A 55W at 8 ohms, 70W at 4 ohms + hard rock + high volume + 836V = potential tweeter serial killer.

 

[KEW]

I thought you were spot on. A 70W at 4 ohms, 55W at 8 ohms + hard rock + high volume + 836V = potential tweeter serial killer.

Thanks!
Where did you find the spec for 4 ohms?

Typically, an amp spec's out at about 50% higher with a 4 ohm load than an 8 ohm load. But that is simply not much power. This amp is struggling. I thought even low end Pioneer Elite would be better than that.
Kudos to Focal for publishing real specifications! Many speaker companies let their marketing department decide which numbers would sell best and would never admit to a drop to 3 Ohm (also nice that they gave the frequency).

The good news for the OP is a better amp is clearly the "low hanging fruit" for upgrade!

Edited to reflect corrected wattage for 4 and 8 ohms.

 

[KEW]

The Emotiva is probably your best fit. But just to give you options if you have the coin and want a bit more power and always wanted monoblocks, you could get a pair of these:

http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/2200.html

 

[PENG]

Thanks!
Where did you find the spec for 4 ohms?

To actually have less wattage at 4 ohms indicates this amp is a horrible match for speakers that drop to 3 ohms. I'm surprised the amp has not routinely shut down or just cooked itself by now. I thought even low end Pioneer Elite would be better than that.
Kudos to Focal for publishing real specifications! Many speaker companies let their marketing department decide which numbers would sell best and would never admit to a drop to 3 Ohm (also nice that they gave the frequency).

The good news for the OP is a better amp is clearly the "low hanging fruit" for upgrade!

My mistake, got it reversed, fixed now. Thanks!