newbie brain: BOSE IS GOD

zackde

zackde

Audioholic Intern
guys,

Now that im reading/ researching lots about audio stuffs, cant help to ask

WHY BOSE IS BASHED SO MUCH BY AUDIOPHILES?

i have really no idea about professional audio coz im a newbie who praised bose so many times during my endless trip to bestbuy, i even thought that bose is the best system out in the market (ask any newbie they might have the same brain as mine lol), some here in forum even compare bose as overhyped just like monster cable (i know monster cable is really a scam)

anyone here can enlighten me about this bose myth? :eek:
 
sts9fan

sts9fan

Banned
I am far from an expert but I have a few major grips with bose.

1) They don't sell most of their products separately only as packages so they can give you some good product and some crap mix in a package.
2) Non-standard connectors which is again forcing your hand if you choose bose.
3) Paper drivers which is just cost cutting
4) Cost vs Quality.
 
nibhaz

nibhaz

Audioholic Chief
Becasue my dad says so....

Bose blows because when I was about 15 I told my Dad I liked Bose and then proceeded to get a lecture as to why Bose sucks… and at that age what the audio savvy father says is law…thus Bose sucks! On a more serious note the articles posted by Clint pretty much cover everything.
 
zackde

zackde

Audioholic Intern
may i add,

this sounds like the same thing some people are offering, i already encountered them:

$2500 PLATINUM BRAND set of pots & pans, they say its surgical steel & your old pot or teflon will make u sick

$1900 RAINBOW BRAND vacuum cleaner, they say it will cure your allergy, will clean your house to the extreme, no filter only water, will work as air filter, snow blower (what???) :eek:
 
Johnny Canuck

Johnny Canuck

Banned
Funny....the first link said Polk Audio was in the same league as Bose. The second link said Polks were not.

Not disagreeing Bose is junk. I would say Polks are not junk. Not the best by along shot. For the money, you would be hard pressed to find better than Polk.
 
J

JeffreyDJ

Junior Audioholic
Unfortunately, I have two Bose 161's for rear surrounds right now. At Christmas, knew I wanted new rear surrounds. So she ran out to HH-gregg to find some. She was sold on the 161's and was very proud when I opened them that she had picked them out herself. I *WASN'T* going to return them -- I'd like to stay married.

Now, I've heard better -- but they aren't all that *bad* for surrounds. Not high praise, I know. And, I probably wouldn't have picked them out myself, but that's life.
 
Shadow_Ferret

Shadow_Ferret

Audioholic Chief
Wow. My wife would never dream of picking out speakers since she knows nothing about them. She's probably end up with Bose, too. ;)

Honestly, too, there would have been an argument, I would have taken them back and to sooth her over I'd have ended up buying her a new Coach purse.

But at least I wouldn't have any Bose. :D

My problem with Bose is, one: they never post their specifications. Good luck ever finding a frequency response listed anywhere.

and Two: if you think about it logically, it is physically impossible to get deep bass out of a 5-1/2 in. speaker and it's near impossible to get high frequencies out of a 2 in. speaker. And yet they pretend they can.
 
J

JeffreyDJ

Junior Audioholic
Trust me, if they had been intended to be mains, or anything other then Surrounds, it might have been a different story!
 
zackde

zackde

Audioholic Intern
Oh Boseeee

one praise for BOSE, EXCELLENT MARKETING!!

imagine that almost everyone who knew nothing about audio dreams about BOSE, because i was on the phone the other night then i told my friend

"HEY I GOT A NEW HT SYSTEM, i just bought an onkyo receiver"

answer: "WOW!! I WANT ONE TOO!! BUT I WAT TO BUY THOSE BOSE SYSTEM AT BESTBUY" (sounding like he knew nothing about onkyo, just BOSE)

why cant other GOOD companies market like BOSE too, so all consumer will have an idea that BOSE is not the superior audio as what they are thinking??

is BOSE the biggest selling speakers on the market?
 
M

mustang_steve

Senior Audioholic
Heh, yeah Bose is grossly overrated. It is true that some time ago they were considered a really good brand (about 40 years ago), but if you were in the know, Sansui, made a speaker that just obliterated the Bose 901, for about 1/3 the price. Then Bose screwed up by not really improving the trechnology.

IMO, if they used up to date drivers and blended their design with modern technology, they would be one of the top brands. Their direct/radiating concept has been minicked to some extent or antoher in many surround speakers as well as some mains, and that has to say for something.

Sadly they just choose to use cheap drivers and even cheaper tweeters, and finally have ended with using poor cabinet designs as well. Instead they just market cubes like mad...

Other weird point, Bose used to make speakers under other brands as well, and those used gigantic paper cone tweeters, what the heck?

IMO, they just need to stop being a company ran by market-droids, and get back to making good speakers.
 
M

mustang_steve

Senior Audioholic
Bose isn't the biggest selling, but it is up there on the list.

It's just their marketing, along with the shows they do.

Back when the acousticwave music system (essentially an oversized wave radio) was being marketed like mad, I was invited to one of their shows...the music CDs they give you are off the freaking hook....best classical disc I have ever owned...pity my mom made it her goal to "forget" she had it when she last visited (grr...get it back I will...MUHAHAHAAHA!), the radio...well it was better than most boomboxes....but I wouldn't pay nearly a grand for it. It did like hard rock though, and took abuse well....Our Lady Of Peace's song "Starseed" was hitting hard enough they had to tell me to stop since I was annoying the old folks (I was the only one under 55 in there, I was 19 at that time) :D

Sad part, my $600 car stereo blew that radio away....in general a home stereo at a third the price should comapre to a car stereo of any price point. so this radio should have compared to a $3000 car stereo.

But, those shows are very impressive, and they speak for themselves. THe other side is high wife acceptance factor. Bose cubes blend intop a room, I'll give them that, and the sub does too. Wives also like that idea more than "Let's cut holes in the wall to fit speakers.....SPEAKERS (insert tim allen grunts here)!!!!!!". Oh, and almost everyone knows they are an old brand, so most think "if they been around this long, they gotta be good". It's the only reason aside from college kids that KLH is still around...which was actually a very good company back when Henry Kloss was designing speakers for them, so just being an old and familiar name possibly has something to do with it too.

JBL gets mad props as well for being a practically ancient name, despite IMO not making anyhting particularly inspiring in my entire lifetime (I'm only 25, but still 25 years is a lot of time to do something right). Klipsch is one of the few old brands that are still making superb products. I may have forgot some names here, but those were the ones that stand out.

My $140 a pair kit speakers have already turned a few away from Bose...showing how overpriced those things really are.....that's the best you can do is just mind your own system, and hopefully your friends hear your setup and understand that there is more than tiny cubes and global marketing agendas.
 
Shadow_Ferret

Shadow_Ferret

Audioholic Chief
why cant other GOOD companies market like BOSE too, so all consumer will have an idea that BOSE is not the superior audio as what they are thinking??
Because the other companies actually put their money back into R&D, unlike Bose which seems to put it into PR.

And I still have a pair of Sansui SP-6300s. Got them in the 70s (after I blew up my Polks, Altecs, and Bose 601s). A friend at the time had Bose 901s and all he talked about was the direct/reflecting aspect of his speakers. "It sounds like you're at a concert!" Hmm. Yeah, maybe. They did fill the room with sound, but consider they only used 4-1/2" speakers, there wasn't any bass and hardly any high freqs. We lived in a dorm, side by side, and when he cranked his Bose up, if I cranked mine up too, you could feel his wall shake from my bass, but you couldn't hear his speakers at all from my room.
 
T

twheeloc

Audioholic Intern
A Little More Added

Having worked at Best Buy for a time (yeah I know, College Job=Discounts on Athena's and Yamaha's) I frequently had to work with people coming in and thinking that Bose was the greatest. From the perspective of a reasonable sales person Bose is the right choice for some people. Namely the people who don't care what it sounds like but what it looks like and how easy it is to operate basically better sounding HTIB. I always tried to enlighten people as to other options but some were just sold on it. One thing I did pick up from a friend who works elsewhere was that Bose designs there speakers around something called the "Fletcher Munson Curve"(Why you'll never see frequency response curves of their speakers). This is based on a study done I believe in the thirties which tested various tones through the spectrum and what volume different ranges were heard at. http://www.webervst.com/fm.htm has a brief explanation. Bose is, as I understood, trying to compensate for this curve. This, and they're advertising, is why they've ridden on basically the same technology for 20+ years and people are still buying.
 
zackde

zackde

Audioholic Intern
but if im the owner of a good speaker company i should be thinking, WHY IS MY SPEAKERS BETTER THAN BOSE BUT THEY SELL BETTER THAN MINE?? now i should throw in some money in PR too & built some demos on bestbuys, circuit city & sears

in business, whats the sense of being good if they will not buy me?

IF YOU GOT IT SHOW IT, thats what BOSE is doing, sampling people of some good audio, most consumers are not audiophiles so hearing a BOSE is enough for them to buy it, they dont care about paper cones or bad bass
 
M

mustang_steve

Senior Audioholic
Very true, the problem is even when CD first came out, the gear to bring it out just was not there....that has been an ongoing thing...now we have SACD and DVD-A, and most people don't even have the speakers to hear the difference.

Adn yep, Bose does use a lot of psycho-acoustics int heir products, it does make for an impressive sound to those that are used to shelf systems, boomboxes, and $100/pair KLH floorstanders.

As far as marketing....that is the majority of what you pay for with Bose...that's why most refuse to market like that. Marketing is the single most expensive thing you can do dollar for dollar. Plus at what point will it get you the sales you desire? I've worked for Dot-coms that honestly would have done just as well without a marketing dept (they sucked, they could not get a ginel good word out for 4 years), and sadly that marketing dept made them go under...but not after seeing over 150mil in marketing costs over those 4 years go to nothing...

Basically I just wish Best Buy would eventually edge out KLH speakers and bring athena back in it's place. My guess is Bose suffered a sales hit from their time with Athena....heck the ones I was at even sold the AS-F2.....man those things sounded incredible...I was awestruck, especially that Best Buy was selling them. The Yamaha NS-777 was also a very nice speaker that could put Bose to shame.

Now if only those weird American Technology crystal speakers ( http://www.woodynorris.com/Articles/BusinessWeek12-96.htm ) were on the market and affordable, we could see Bose go away.
 
Shadow_Ferret

Shadow_Ferret

Audioholic Chief
From that article about the crystal speakers:
More important, it also avoids unwanted reflections in home stereos. With ordinary loudspeakers, the music gets tainted by echoes bouncing off the wall behind the speakers. These echoes arrive at your ears a split second after the direct signal and "smear" the sound. Getting rid of such defects, so speakers could match the fidelity of digital audio, was the motive behind Norris' invention.
Interesting that Dr. Bose believes reflections are desirable and Norris thinks they are unwanted.
 
M

mustang_steve

Senior Audioholic
I still see lots of highly regarded speakers that use rear tweeters and sometimes mids, so maybe his designs have some degree of merit...but maybe he just overdoes it, or maybe the side-firing of his drivers is what causes problems?

If I had the time and cash, I'd love to get a pair of 901s for cheap, and rebuild it using quality coaxial drivers (tweeters modded to be electrically separate from the woofer) and updated crossovers and see how it works out. Problem is Advent quit making car speakers, so their famous time aligned coaxials are no more....pity...


edit: hmm maybe some tang-band full-range drivers would work...pricey though...
 

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