newbie. 10k budget for full system. advice!?

S

stdking

Audiophyte
Hi, I have always loved kick *** audio. Just closed on a house - so it's time!

I have had klipcsh f3s ( I think) and 12 klipcsh sub paired with a nice Yamaha receiver (can't remember the model.) that sounded kick *** for the $.

I'm grown up now and would like more. something that's great sq and LOUD. good bass is important. - it would be nice to be able to watch tv with it too. I was thinking a couple of real nice towers(like klipcsh but I'm open), amp (maybe Mcintosh) and preamp (no clue!)

I like how klipcsh are bright. but I'm really open to new ideas. I want something that sounds great, rocks the fing house, and can put on for a movie. 10k max budget.

any feedback is much appreciated !!!!!
 
Pyrrho

Pyrrho

Audioholic Ninja
With that kind of budget, if that is a substantial sum for you, you really should go to audio stores and listen to as many speakers as you can stand to listen to, of as many types (e.g., ribbon, horn, dome, whatever), and of as many brands as you can stand to audition, with all of the types of music that you listen to or want to listen to, with recordings with which you are familiar. Different people have different taste, and different aspects of the sound matter more to some people than others, so it really is not very useful to know what some random people on the internet prefer. (Though if you want to know that, I really like ribbon speakers, and do not plan on ever going back to not having them. Magnepan would be a brand I would be looking at, though you may well have different ideas of what you want. For subwoofers, I like SVS.)

You will want to think about whether you want a surround system, or a better two channel system. Either can be used with a TV, though obviously one will not get the surround experience with only 2 channels. Either way, though, the speakers will affect the sound more than anything else, so you should expect to spend most of your budget on speakers. I used to use a receiver that retailed for about $600 with speakers that retailed for over $6000, and it sounded great (as it should). Because I wanted more (and newer) features, I replaced the receiver with one that retails for about $1700. Unless I engage a feature that affects the sound, it sounds the same as before. In my opinion, most people spend far too much of their budget on electronics than on speakers, if actual sound quality is the goal.
 
S

stdking

Audiophyte
good info. thanks. ill be looking up ribbon speakers lol I don't know what they are...
 
M

Mark of Cenla

Full Audioholic
Pyrro is right. Go out and listen. No one's opinion matters but yours. Peace and goodwill.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
How big is your room?

How far is your listening distance?

Focus on the speakers + subs, and a lot less on amps.

Subs: Get four Rythmik FV15HP subs for $3992 delivered.

Speakers: The Klipsch KL650-THX (FR +/-1dB from 100Hz-10kHz) retails $1500 each, but dealer cost is $588 each, and you can get them for about $750 each delivered x 5 = $3750 delivered.

Amp: ATI AT1805 for $1380 delivered.

Processor: Denon X4000 for $900 delivered (Electronics Expo phone deal).
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
You seem like a great candidate for JTR speakers. Check out some Noesis 228HTs, those are extremely powerful speakers that have garnered raves at all of the meets and GTGs they have been at. The JTR subs are absolute monsters as well, both in size and performance. A couple of these Captivator 2400s will level your house. These will all have terrific sound quality as well, it'll make your room sound like an Imax. Add some of these high powered JBLs for the surround speakers, and you can have enough left over in your 10k budget for a good receiver with Audyssey XT32 with SubEQ like this killer Denon AVR-X4000.

Another great setup would be with these Pi Four speakers which have a compression tweeter and a 15" woofer, that will have endless headroom and a 98 dB sensitivity, that will get blazing loud with just a few watts. It has some very good measurements to back up its claims of good sound quality. Another great choice for subs would be the Funk 18.0, right now they are having a summer sale on a square cabinet edition, a killer value for $2500 shipped. Get two of those. The curved cabinet edition was recently reviewed here at audioholics, and proved to have some terrific performance measurements. Again, add a couple of those JBL 8320 surrounds and the Denon AVR-X4000, and you will have a very hi-fi yet monster system for roughly $10k.
 
ImcLoud

ImcLoud

Audioholic Ninja
10K just for audio? or is that tv too?

is this just HT or music too?

I think something like
A/V Receivers, Home Theater Receiver | AVR-3313CI | Denon or a umc200 would work too for a few hundred less...
XPR-5 | 400W x 5 | Emotiva Audio | High-end audio components for audiophiles and videophiles, spanning 2-channel music systems, as well as 5.1 and 7.1 home theaters. Products include multichannel amplifiers, stereo amplifiers, and monoblock amplifier $2000 more money more headroom...
VTF-15H DualDrive Package $2000 should be a good amount of bass for any size room... but you could always buy an extra one for 5.3!!!
Sierra Tower Bamboo Loudspeaker
Sierra Horizon Bamboo Loudspeaker
Sierra-1 Bamboo Loudspeaker $4700 total Ascend order depending on finish you pick... that includes the Raal ribbon upgrade on the front 3
that leaves you $500 for cables, stands, ect....

That was easy lol...
that will cost around $10K don't forget to take pics...
 
S

stdking

Audiophyte
wow thanks for all the info!!! I'm trying to squeeze in time to research this stuff in between my busy work schedule. I'm sure I will have more q's.... and ill let y'all know what I'm thinking about before I order. thanks!
ps. it's hard to hear stuff first because most stores only carry lower quality bs...
 
jinjuku

jinjuku

Moderator
What is your room size? What is your seating distance? Just two channel or surround sound?

Is the room hardwood floors or carpeting? Can you do room treatments? Where do you live. May be that a member here is near you that can help.

I would seriously reign back on spending that much on amplifier Jewelery (McIntosh). I put my Statements with a $200 Crown XLS 402d up against a pair of B&W 803d's with $7500 Classe amp (dealer was present) and smoked them. Again that was almost $14-15,000 dollars in speaker and amp and My setup with a 'pro-audio' amp just out and out flattened them. The dealer was dumb struck.
 
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BoredSysAdmin

BoredSysAdmin

Audioholic Slumlord
d.

Speakers: The Klipsch KL650-THX (FR +/-1dB from 100Hz-10kHz) retails $1500 each, but dealer cost is $588 each, and you can get them for about $750 each delivered x 5 = $3750 delivered.

Amp: ATI AT1805 for $1380 delivered.

Processor: Denon X4000 for $900 delivered (Electronics Expo phone deal).
Klipsch has 97db Efficiency and 8ohm nominal impedance ... Do you really think OP want to blow up his speakers and eardrums or that 125Wpc 20-20 at 0.08% Thd is not sufficient?
Much better to split this amount (cost of ati amp) between room treatments and remote control system
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
Klipsch has 97db Efficiency and 8ohm nominal impedance ... Do you really think OP want to blow up his speakers and eardrums or that 125Wpc 20-20 at 0.08% Thd is not sufficient?
Much better to split this amount (cost of ati amp) between room treatments and remote control system
You're preaching to the choir here.

But some guys must have amps no matter what.

That's why I said the 180WPC amp, not 300WPC amp.

Yes, I think just the Denon X4000 alone would suffice.

My Phil3 is like 4 ohms/ 85dB SEN, yet I use only my Denon 3312 and no other amps.

But try telling most guys they don't need amps!
 
ImcLoud

ImcLoud

Audioholic Ninja
You're preaching to the choir here.

But some guys must have amps no matter what.

That's why I said the 180WPC amp, not 300WPC amp.

Yes, I think just the Denon X4000 alone would suffice.

My Phil3 is like 4 ohms/ 85dB SEN, yet I use only my Denon 3312 and no other amps.

But try telling most guys they don't need amps!

Either way you need an amp, are you going to use the small amp section built into your 30lb receiver that has to process all of your audio and video information or are you going to trust your 100lb amplifier that just has to amplify sound... I got sold on amps after I went through a couple avrs, they run hot when pushed, most don't like 4 ohms, and get outdated pretty fast. My uncle had a preamp for 20 years that still works great, no amp section to beat it up and heat the balls out of it....

Just preference I guess, I feel like the tech is moving too fast, so I would rather spend $450 on a preamp and $800 on an amp than $1250 on an AVR, so when japan comes out with the new hdmi-X cable or 3D version 4xL I can still use my amp and just grab another preamp... AVRs are great and I use one with an amp, and I use one with no amp in my bedroom, but when I was using my $2800 avr to power my old setup to fill a 380sq foot room with sound, it lasted 3 years, my buddies UMC1 and xpa5 are already older than that {he pushes them and it runs for at least 12 hours a day over there since he works from home}, and he spent much less...
It boils down to what you like, 65% more headroom is nice too...
 
J

JonnyFive23517

Audioholic
My recommendation: Marantz AV8801, Emotiva XPA-5, dual subs, and the rest on 5 speakers. What do you think? (Or, to get more money into speakers an Emotiva or Outlaw pre-amp)
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
My Denon 3312 costs $550. So I would rather get a $1200 AVR for $600, instead of an amp + preamp. :D
 
ImcLoud

ImcLoud

Audioholic Ninja
My Denon 3312 costs $550. So I would rather get a $1200 AVR for $600, instead of an amp + preamp. :D
In a way that is my point, there are a lot of people that bought a 3312 for $1000 now a year later its $500, same thing with the 3313 next year that thing is going to be $425 on sale somewhere, the technology changes too fast, and even when its not changing the avr's are year to year..... I agree with buying an inexpensive avr that has preouts, but I will never again spend more than $500 ON AN AVR... Im not sure what the phms on the phil 3s are but Ill bet you if you start pushing a bunch of them with that 3312 and loud shes not going to be happy after a short amount of time, where my xpa5 will push 300w to each of them for as long as my wife lets me...
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
where my xpa5 will push 300w to each of them for as long as my wife lets me...
The XPA5 has a 1200VA transformer in it so as it is a class AB amp it will not give you much more than say 900W or 180WPC (that's being generous) on a true continuous (to mean non stop, indefinitely,..) basis so I hope your wife won't let you push 300W to each of your 5 speakers for too long. If she did, you would have a good chance of losing the amp, the speakers or both, depending on how good the thermal protection scheme of the Emo is and the kind of speakers you have . The Jade 7 probably wouldn't like to take 300W continuously but you would have to ask them just to be sure.:D

I realize you are just making your point about why it is good to have a good amp and plenty of headroom though.
 
ImcLoud

ImcLoud

Audioholic Ninja
The XPA5 has a 1200VA transformer in it so as it is a class AB amp it will not give you much more than say 900W or 180WPC (that's being generous) on a true continuous (to mean non stop, indefinitely,..) basis so I hope your wife won't let you push 300W to each of your 5 speakers for too long. If she did, you would have a good chance of losing the amp, the speakers or both, depending on how good the thermal protection scheme of the Emo is and the kind of speakers you have . The Jade 7 probably wouldn't like to take 300W continuously but you would have to ask them just to be sure.:D

I realize you are just making your point about why it is good to have a good amp and plenty of headroom though.
thanks for that, lol
What size transformer comes in a Denon 1312? more of my point... Even with a $2500 yamaha, when watching a movie {with the fronts crossed at 80} loud enough to where I can not hear the kids fighting, and seated far from the front, It would strain when I lot was going on, and when the movie was over it would be HOT, 1 movie...

I leave my system on most of the day on the weekends, we wake up at 5am and that system runs until 1am sunday when we go to bed, and if Im home all day or the kids are there it will play 3 or 4 loud movies through out that day, and then repeat Sunday, except Sunday we go to bed around 11 and get up around 6:30... I had a Onkyo in there for a weekend and it was SMOKING hot {809, not a super cheap model, I believe I made a post about it}, I only noticed because I could smell it, that is when I put some thought into how much that thing runs on any given weekend... Now my XPA5 played rite through xmass vacation, the kids were playing video games shaking the house, that machine got a lifetime of use in that one week, they were trapped in the house with new video games and snow outside with the t-stat set at 78 {wife is from florida, I would set it at 62 if it were just me} and I made a point to feel the amp, never got much above room temp, never smelt funny, not a hickup from it...

So I know a lot of guys don't see the need for an amp and that is fine but to say, no one needs them is a little off, since their is a market for them , and don't forget how cool them look stacked up in the corner.... When I build my designated theater, I running a 7.2 with 2 XPR1's (1 for each sub set each sub will have 2 13w7's in them, them amps make 1700+ watts at 4 ohms), an XPR2 for the front left and right, and an XPR5 for the rest of the speakers, I'm going to run a sub panel just for the theater....
 
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