Newb Question about having enough power to drive speakers

[Opticdraft]

I have a 30 wpc tube amp driving 88dB sensitivity speakers. It seems to be able to drive them fine as far as I can tell... When I really crank it, it sounds pretty good still but I notice my volt meter on the amp starting to max out/red line at dynamic parts in music BUT the volume knob still has PLENTY to go.... So don't understand? Can you crank the volume up all the way or should you avoid "red lining" the volt meter?

Other thought I had was when it maxes out, thats where "clipping??" occurs?

I attached a pic of the volt meter.

 

[everettT]

Make and model numbers of your gear will get you some answers.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

This tubes obsession seems to me not much different from mechanical wrist watches, steam engines or anything steampunk.
It's sorta cool and interesting, but has nothing to do with achieving best possible performance, quite the opposite in fact.
Tube amps are best used with speakers with really high sensitivity, your 88db (and I'm assuming you matched amp and speakers impedance to be same - I guess 8 ohms) are better suited to be driven by solid state amp.

 

[Opticdraft]

Thanks for the replies.

I am using a Dared i30 amp with Infinity IL30 speakers (8 Ohm). I have listened using a Yamaha RX-V1400 SS receiver as well but I can tell the tube amp sounds better. My understanding is tube amps are not as accurate as SS amps but they just generally sound less harsh, and thus better?

At any rate, I am still confused by the volt-meter to output / volume connection. Can someone explain this to me?

 

[Swerd]

I have a 30 wpc tube amp driving 88dB sensitivity speakers. It seems to be able to drive them fine as far as I can tell... When I really crank it, it sounds pretty good still but I notice my volt meter on the amp starting to max out/red line at dynamic parts in music BUT the volume knob still has PLENTY to go.... So don't understand? Can you crank the volume up all the way or should you avoid "red lining" the volt meter?

The manufacturer of your amp can't know what speakers you have, nor could it know how live or dead sounding your room is. Don't assume there is a direct relation between the voltage ouput, as shown by that meter, and the loudness of your speakers. That volt meter only shows part of the picture of how much power is drawn by the speakers. Different speakers draw current differently. A sensitivity of 88 dB only means something useful if the rating is done the same way as other speakers, and there is no standard method that all speaker makers agree on.

30 wpc should be enough to drive many speakers at moderate to loud volumes, but it can easily go into clipping on short but louder musical passages. Unlike solid state amps, most tube amps go into clipping gradually without making the obvious sounding noise that we hear from ss amps. The so-called graceful clipping of most tube amps is said to be a reason why some people like their sound. I think an amp should never ever be driven into clipping, whether we hear it or not.

 

[lovinthehd]

Just because your amp is rated for x power at y distortion doesn't mean you can't exceed those values by twisting the volume knob sufficiently.

 

[PENG]

I have a 30 wpc tube amp driving 88dB sensitivity speakers. It seems to be able to drive them fine as far as I can tell... When I really crank it, it sounds pretty good still but I notice my volt meter on the amp starting to max out/red line at dynamic parts in music BUT the volume knob still has PLENTY to go.... So don't understand? Can you crank the volume up all the way or should you avoid "red lining" the volt meter?

Other thought I had was when it maxes out, thats where "clipping??" occurs?

I attached a pic of the volt meter.

You can't go by the volume knob position. Depending on a few things, examples: one being the input sensitivity of the amp, the other the level of the input signal, your amp can be "maxed out" well past the clipping point with the volume knob not even half way to the physical stop limit.

 

[rojo]

I think it helps to think of the amp volume knob as a gain control rather than volume. The gain is intended to adjust the amplified output to an appropriate level for the given pre-amp voltage. Just as a hypothetical, say your volume knob is set for an input voltage of 0.9v. If the signal reaches 0.9v, that's when your meter hits 0dB. Anything over and the needle gets into the red and the signal clips. If the signal clips often at your desired listening volume, then you might consider either a stronger amp or more sensitive speakers. But ultimately, if you haven't fried your equipment and you're happy with the sound, then there's probably no practical reason for fixing something that ain't broke.

 

[Opticdraft]

I think it helps to think of the amp volume knob as a gain control rather than volume. The gain is intended to adjust the amplified output to an appropriate level for the given pre-amp voltage. Just as a hypothetical, say your volume knob is set for an input voltage of 0.9v. If the signal reaches 0.9v, that's when your meter hits 0dB. Anything over and the needle gets into the red and the signal clips. If the signal clips often at your desired listening volume, then you might consider either a stronger amp or more sensitive speakers. But ultimately, if you haven't fried your equipment and you're happy with the sound, then there's probably no practical reason for fixing something that ain't broke.

Sweet! This makes sense. Thanks so much for explaining!

 

[mtrycrafts]

...

I am using a Dared i30 amp with Infinity IL30 speakers (8 Ohm). I have listened using a Yamaha RX-V1400 SS receiver as well but I can tell the tube amp sounds better. My understanding is tube amps are not as accurate as SS amps but they just generally sound less harsh, and thus better?

...

I am sure that Yam has a tone control someplace in it. That is to tame some of the brightness of music that you don't seem to like. I wonder how right that piece of music sounds like in a live performance.

 

[TLS Guy]

I have a 30 wpc tube amp driving 88dB sensitivity speakers. It seems to be able to drive them fine as far as I can tell... When I really crank it, it sounds pretty good still but I notice my volt meter on the amp starting to max out/red line at dynamic parts in music BUT the volume knob still has PLENTY to go.... So don't understand? Can you crank the volume up all the way or should you avoid "red lining" the volt meter?

Other thought I had was when it maxes out, thats where "clipping??" occurs?

I attached a pic of the volt meter.

Do NOT red line it. You will blow it up. Most amps will clip long before max rotation of the volume control.

The meter will not tell you the peaks because of the ballistics of the meter mechanism That meter will give you average power at best. It needs LED metering to tell you when you have clipping.

That amp will clip long before that meter red lines, so be careful. 32 watts is not much power for speakers with a sensitivity of 88 db. If you do not have the power you want, then get speakers with a sensitivity approaching 100 db, or ditch the amp. I advise ditching the amp.

There is no benefit to using tubes, it is all disadvantage, despite what the audiophools say.

 

[brad1138]

I have a 30 wpc tube amp driving 88dB sensitivity speakers. It seems to be able to drive them fine as far as I can tell... When I really crank it, it sounds pretty good still but I notice my volt meter on the amp starting to max out/red line at dynamic parts in music BUT the volume knob still has PLENTY to go.... So don't understand? Can you crank the volume up all the way or should you avoid "red lining" the volt meter?

Other thought I had was when it maxes out, thats where "clipping??" occurs?

I attached a pic of the volt meter.

That does seem a bit underpowered. In theory, 30 watts will get your 88 dB speaks a little over 100 dB @ 1 meter in front of each speaker. But also, bass needs power, and 30 isn't a lot, especially for somewhat inefficient spks.

My speakers are 83 dB @ 1 watt/1 meter, but they are bipolar, so ~86 dB in real world. I am running them with about 400 watts each. When I tried amps of around 100 wpc, they didn't really do it.

As others said, crank it and you will overdrive it. Although every volume control on a preamp/receiver is different, your typical 7-5 (on a clock) volume control, max output (before clipping anyway) is somewhere between 12 and 2.

EDIT: Just followed the link on that integrated amp, very nice. If the preamp section is passive, full volume will be @ 5 o'clock, but it probably has gain. I just ventured into tubes myself, with w/a Schiit Freya Tube preamp, and upgraded the tubes. I like it a lot.