New Wiim Pro Plus vs current Heos software in my Denon AVR-X2800H and AVR-S960H receivers.

[Mike Up]

I will be honest, I hated Heos in the receivers until the last couple versions where they seemed to have fixed everything and it works good.

Since I have a TV in my home theater setups, I like using a television over a phone or tablet. It's much easier and integrated IMO.

I absolutely hate the Fire TV Max 4K sticks I have, and Amazon TV for that matter. So my normal streamers are the current Roku Ultra (my favorite) and Chromecast with Google TV 4K.

I have a tidal subscription so the Chromecast is the only I can use for it. However it resamples all audio to 48Khz. So Max resolution would be 24 bit/48Khz and High Resolution would be 16 bit/48Khz. Not bad but I wanted a bit better sampling rate so that artifacts from master recording saturation didn't show up in the audible frequencies. Not so much for higher frequency response.

So I tried out the Wiim Pro Plus which is very well reviewed by Amir at Audio Science Review.

It is a great audio streamer but it lacks in some major ways to the built in Heos I have in my Denon receivers.

Heos displays format and data info as FLAC 24 bit/192khz. While Wiim only displays the kbps and data info, but not format on all songs. It does on some but not all.

I can use all of my inputs on my receiver with Heos so the Wiim doesn't have an advantage with it's analog and digital input there.

The Wiim would be so much nicer to have a HDMI output for audio information and audio. Big negatives so all I have is a tablet or phone for display. Heos displays all information on my 65" television which is a huge advantage.

I did want the remote with the wiim so the plus version comes with that. However it's no advantage as the Denon has controls for Heos on it's remote as well.

I got the wiim pro plus because I thought I'd like it's graphic interface on Android better than Heos, but I don't. It has some nice features but none are functional for me. I don't need the EQ, room compensation, or variable volume, and don't need the better analog output of the DAC. I keep everything in the digital domain.

Amazon had it at a great price and I figured if I was going to go with a wiim device, not to have any regrets and get the better one. The Ultra didn't offer anything more than I thought I could want.

So with the current Heos software in the receivers and Androids devices, what does wiim really offer that is a big advantage, so I won't need to send it back to Amazon?

Thanks!

 

[lovinthehd]

Curious, in the Denon are you using processing of any kind? Or just direct mode? This is only about 2ch audio?

 

[Mike Up]

I'm just using Stereo mode which uses it's processor for speaker level, delay time, and crossovers and such for the subwoofer and speakers.

I'm using Tune In app on both Heos and WIim and my local favorite Classic rock station and Wiim sounds noticeably better, more full sounding. But as mention, Heos displays incoming format and bitrate along with Song title. Wiim shows none of that, only outgoing signal they send out at 24 bit/44.1Khz.

I also noticed wiim supports many more music apps.

 

[Mike Up]

BTW, this is on my living room system that has the Denon AVR-X2800H.

 

[lovinthehd]

I'm just using Stereo mode which uses it's processor for speaker level, delay time, and crossovers and such for the subwoofer and speakers.

I'm using Tune In app on both Heos and WIim and my local favorite Classic rock station and Wiim sounds noticeably better, more full sounding. But as mention, Heos displays incoming format and bitrate along with Song title. Wiim shows none of that, only outgoing signal they send out at 24 bit/44.1Khz.

I also noticed wiim supports many more music apps.

Then it's already resampling at 48khz to accommodate the processing. Not that that's a big deal in any case. I think you might read more into higher bitrates than is an actual concern....you can stream most anything you want via dlna already, yes?

 

[Mike Up]

The resampling was only on the Chromecast with google tv 4K.

Since I'm using the digital domain through out, there should be no resampling of the WiiM signal to the Denon.

I have found some benefits but I'm back and forth on keeping the WiiM.

The WiiM can be used with many more music services that HEOS can not.

Also while both Heos and WIiM use the Tune In app, I found that only the WiiM uses the HD Radio signal from the station if available. My local classic Rock station offers a 24bit/44.1Khz HD signal and it is significantly better, obviously, than the very poor sounding AAC 62kbps or MP3 96kbps signals that are available on the Heos app. This to me is huge but I don't don't know if it's a good reason to keep WiiM.

The largest problem with WiiM is that it does not state the Format on most music services and songs. This is a big deal to me.

 

[lovinthehd]

The resampling was only on the Chromecast with google tv 4K.

Since I'm using the digital domain through out, there should be no resampling of the WiiM signal to the Denon.

I have found some benefits but I'm back and forth on keeping the WiiM.

The WiiM can be used with many more music services that HEOS can not.

Also while both Heos and WIiM use the Tune In app, I found that only the WiiM uses the HD Radio signal from the station if available. My local classic Rock station offers a 24bit/44.1Khz HD signal and it is significantly better, obviously, than the very poor sounding AAC 62kbps or MP3 96kbps signals that are available on the Heos app. This to me is huge but I don't don't know if it's a good reason to keep WiiM.

The largest problem with WiiM is that it does not state the Format on most music services and songs. This is a big deal to me.

So you only use direct modes for this sort of input?

 

[Mike Up]

So you only use direct modes for this sort of input?

I only use Digital for 2.1 stereo so no resampling should occur for crossovers and such using a sub, especially at a low sampling rate as 48Khz.

 

[Mike Up]

I was wrong about WiiM using a HD radio signal for the app, Tune In. That was inaccurate information provided by Samsung AI.

What I did find out was that the radio station I was listening to offers both AAC 62 kbps and MP3 96Kbps. The MP3 version sounds worlds better than the AAC and the MP3 version is what WiiM was using. After finding a stream option in Heos, that Wiim doesn't offer, only then did Tune In on Heos sound as good as Wiim.

The lack of accurate format data information is terrible on WiiM. I am going to return the WiiM Pro Plus. My Denon can do everything the Wiim can do except PEQ Equalizer and I find the output to a TV from HEOS much better along with accurate Music Format information over the WiiM.

For someone with an old amp/receiver, the WiiM is nice but lacking in key areas other then sound quality.

I'm very disappointed that the mini and Pro can only handle a 1 Volt analog input signal. The standard is 2 Volts so that input will saturate from most analog sources and there is no mention of that in any manual.

Most people have no idea that the CD player output standard is 2 Volts so they would never know. The Plus is upgraded to accept 2 Volts but most people would buy a mini or Pro. IMO, WiiM should just eliminate the analog input as it's not fully compatible with the analog output voltage of most devices.

 

[Trebdp83]

Those with built in streaming capabilities in their AVP/AVRs will often find an external streamer is redundant and perhaps not as capable regarding certain streaming service apps.

If a streaming device has a 48/24 limit, hi-res signals from certain streaming services are simply not sent to them and lossless signals of 44.1/16 or 48/24 are sent instead.

When a 192/24 signal is present, an AVP/AVR will in most cases resample it when using DSP.
It will not result in a degradation of the audio signal.

Tidal has expanded support for hi-res and Dolby Atmos streams to more devices. Tidal Connect support has expanded as well and is
supported in newer Denon/Marantz units equipped with HEOS.

Using the Tidal app in a Smart device and selecting Tidal Connect to direct audio output from a supported device, hi-res and Dolby Atmos will be available from select devices.

 

[Mike Up]

I use Tidal Hi Def, Free Spotify, Free Pandora, Free Amazon Music, and Free Tune IN.

Only WiiM with Tidal states the Format when it's Max or High Def, Otherwise for High (16 bit/44.1Khz) Wiim does not state the Tidal format. It also doesn't state the format for the others. Heos states the Format and Quality on everything.

My Tune IN classic Rock station on Wiim was showing an "input" of 24 bit/44.1Khz for a 96Kbps MP3 song. I knew it showing the input of the song because I temporarily changed the output Resolution of the WiiM to 24 bit/192Khz. Wiim should had shown 96kbps MP3, not 24 bit/44.1Khz. Very deceiving! May Wiim processed the MP3 file as 24 bit/44.1Khz, but that shouldn't had shown, just the 96kbps MP3 format.

Yes, Heos built into my S960H and X2800H does quite a bit more than the WiiM Pro Plus so no sense in using the WiiM or keeping it.

BUT I would had never known unless I used it to find out.

The WiiM Pro "PLUS" is actually the finished product of the WiiM Pro, that has fully functional and compatible inputs and outputs and Excellent sound quality with measurements to back it up. BUT it lacks a HDMI display output and correct format displays on Android devices.

 

[Trebdp83]

Have you used the Tidal Connect feature in your Android device’s Tidal app to have audio output from the Denon?

 

[Mike Up]

Have you used the Tidal Connect feature in your Android device’s Tidal app to have audio output from the Denon?

Yes, sounds great but I also use the Heos app.
Thanks

 

[Trebdp83]

Is the audio information display on the TV the same using the built in HEOS Tidal app vs using the Android Tidal app with Tidal Connect?

 

[lovinthehd]

I'm very disappointed that the mini and Pro can only handle a 1 Volt analog input signal. The standard is 2 Volts so that input will saturate from most analog sources and there is no mention of that in any manual.

Why do you need any more than 1V analog input signal into the WiiM units? What analog signal are you inputting to the Wiims? Output perhaps, but input?

 

[Mike Up]

Why do you need any more than 1V analog input signal into the WiiM units? What analog signal are you inputting to the Wiims? Output perhaps, but input?

A CD player is 2 Volts output as well as most DACs and other high end devices. Only low end devices have a low output analog output except Turntable phono preamps. I guess if you still listen to Casettes and 8-Track tapes their outputs could be as low as 1 volt output and television with a variable output.

 

[Mike Up]

Is the audio information display on the TV the same using the built in HEOS Tidal app vs using the Android Tidal app with Tidal Connect?

Yes, the Heos HDMI output display is available any time, while using the Android App display. It is not like Google Cast where your source screen goes black with only control buttons available.

 

[lovinthehd]

A CD player is 2 Volts output as well as most DACs and other high end devices. Only low end devices have a low output analog output except Turntable phono preamps. I guess if you still listen to Casettes and 8-Track tapes their outputs could be as low as 1 volt output and television with a variable output.

So you mean output from the Wiim, not the input to the Wiim?

 

[Mike Up]

So you mean output from the Wiim, not the input to the Wiim?

No, to the WiiM. If I want to share my 5 disc CD changer with the WiiM Ecosystem to be played on a WiiM in my other room, I can't because the CD Changer output is 2 Volts. The WiiM mini and Pro input is 1 volt where much over 1 volt will saturate the input. That is assuming that I'm already using the WiiM Optical input for my DVD-Audio Player.

The Mini and Pro WiiM devices should have an analog input that can handle the full 2 Volt signal that many devices have. The min and pro devices are limited at 1 Volt on their analog input and there is plenty of negative comments about that around the internet. That is the reason why I bought the PLUS version, to get around that handicap.

 

[lovinthehd]

No, to the WiiM. If I want to share my 5 disc CD changer with the WiiM Ecosystem to be played on a WiiM in my other room, I can't because the CD Changer output is 2 Volts. The WiiM mini and Pro input is 1 volt where much over 1 volt will saturate the input. That is assuming that I'm already using the WiiM Optical input for my DVD-Audio Player.

The Mini and Pro WiiM devices should have an analog input that can handle the full 2 Volt signal that many devices have. The min and pro devices are limited at 1 Volt on their analog input and there is plenty of negative comments about that around the internet. That is the reason why I bought the PLUS version, to get around that handicap.

Ah, got it, wasn't think of the chromecast function. Reminds me of early miniDSP limits on input/output.