New to this forum

[hospitalityjoe]

First off, thanks for the open forum to discuss audio and video stuffs

I am in the process of providing a sound platform for a restaraunt
Going in with a solid 2 channel system
Hafler DH 200
Control Unit NAD receiver, currently using this unit on the Vandies and I need more juice, LOL Hence the add with Hafler, If the NAD won't fly will look into a proper pre-amp,, Suggestions people?
NAD CD Player for personal one on one time or parties.
Vanderstein 2C with solid stands, lovem, nice speakers if you ask me
Bi Wiring is going to be lengthy on the left side for placement, maybe a 15-20ft run with contouring construction finish molding and all
>A question I might add: for commercial applications what is the best way to go, Sirius or Internet for streaming audio?
Space to fill is 20ft by 40 maybe.
Thanks and happy listening.

 

[WmAx]

How are you setting up Vandersteen 2c pair in a restaurant setting to get proper fill to most patrons? It may be a high value, good stereo speaker for home use, but I doubt it's going to be an optimal solution for your purpose with just a single pair. The SPL at one end of the room is going to be much higher than the other.

Probably a better solution, is to use a high quality 2 way monitor such as Behringer B2030P, about 6-8 units, placed around the restaurant, distributed evenly down the length of the central area for more uniform sound. These have extraordinary fidelity for the price, and dispersion is extremely wide, making it suitable. The price is very deceptive here ; comparable 'hifi' speakers cost several times the amount(and this is based on objective comparison of construction/parts/actual measured performance). You need to combine these with an active 2 way crossover (Behringer CX2310 is fine) and 4 or more small subs such as the Dayton 10" powered units (add pillow in each sub - seriously - this will give perceived tight bass effect from each one ). But it will be much easier to integrate the small speakers recommended above. I recommend mounting close to ceiling using angle mount pointed down toward main field of listeners. Use a high bandwidth/broadband acoustic absorber behind and above each speaker for optimal SQ. Place the subs using the same distribution, along the walls. This will allow a minimally obtrusive, extreme high fidelity(for this kind of setting) solution.There is at least one other here that followed this setup, and had spectacular results(he used more expensive subs and a more powerful xover, however).

If you insist on the Vandies, I highly recommend getting 2 more pair, and distributing them along the room in the same manner as to provide more even sound to the patrons.

-Chris

 

[Shock]

Chris you're forgetting that not everyone is going to want to listen to the music at full volume. Infact nothing pisses me off more than when the music is too loud in a bar/restaurant. I know I got to a restaurant to have a nice meal and chat with friends, not to listen to top40 being played at a obtrusive level.

Also Joe, I would go with streaming audio over the internet, you're going to have access to a massive number of stations, and the best part about it is it's free.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

I seen bunch in ceiling installations in lots of commercial venues...

Infinity, JBL, Polk and Yamaha make budget friendly models

Used to decent ones from TSC, but now they gone... RIP

 

[WmAx]

Chris you're forgetting that not everyone is going to want to listen to the music at full volume. Infact nothing pisses me off more than when the music is too loud in a bar/restaurant. I know I got to a restaurant to have a nice meal and chat with friends, not to listen to top40 being played at a obtrusive level.

Also Joe, I would go with streaming audio over the internet, you're going to have access to a massive number of stations, and the best part about it is it's free.

Shock, I have no idea what you mean. The recommended set up is to provide very high quality music playback, period. I don't remember suggesting it be played at 90dB......

-Chris

 

[JerryLove]

Chris you're forgetting that not everyone is going to want to listen to the music at full volume. Infact nothing pisses me off more than when the music is too loud in a bar/restaurant. I know I got to a restaurant to have a nice meal and chat with friends, not to listen to top40 being played at a obtrusive level.

More speakers with better off-axis response means a more consistant volume throughout a space. That's the point of sound re-enforcement. That equates to a lower volume with higher audiability. Otherwise you have a reduction in volume at (theoretically) the sqare of the distance... in short it would be too loud near the speaker and too quiet far from the speaker.

 

[mtrycrafts]

..., and the best part about it is it's free.

Yes, but one needs to be careful about the royalty police arm of the recording industry. They go after shops who play to the customers; Not sure if it is only the ones who use CDs or others who also use the radio bands, or stream from the Internet.

 

[hospitalityjoe]

morning

Chris you're forgetting that not everyone is going to want to listen to the music at full volume. Infact nothing pisses me off more than when the music is too loud in a bar/restaurant. I know I got to a restaurant to have a nice meal and chat with friends, not to listen to top40 being played at a obtrusive level.

Also Joe, I would go with streaming audio over the internet, you're going to have access to a massive number of stations, and the best part about it is it's free.

I think depending on the venue/clients enjoying the space a person can add to the time spent there by either turning it up or like you, I enjoy a little nicely fed background sound. Adds to the ambience and vibe of the space.
Did a little digging with satellite versus internet programing. I was told just last night that internet music is compressed. True? Might be lacking the full range of the original recordings? I do agree variety of music is much greater off the internet versus satellite. Am being careful as to what type of music to feed also. What is in the air sets the tone of a persons eating, comfort and mood. I eat/drink faster and am more uncomfy if the tunes are blaring and want out, LOL..Slower music and maybe more universal, the Blues might be a nice balance. The Vandies sure like that kind of music being played through them and sound great at low listening levels.
Thanks for the comments.
Joe, a cut above.

 

[hospitalityjoe]

Thanks for the council

How are you setting up Vandersteen 2c pair in a restaurant setting to get proper fill to most patrons? It may be a high value, good stereo speaker for home use, but I doubt it's going to be an optimal solution for your purpose with just a single pair. The SPL at one end of the room is going to be much higher than the other.

Probably a better solution, is to use a high quality 2 way monitor such as Behringer B2030P, about 6-8 units, placed around the restaurant, distributed evenly down the length of the central area for more uniform sound. These have extraordinary fidelity for the price, and dispersion is extremely wide, making it suitable. The price is very deceptive here ; comparable 'hifi' speakers cost several times the amount(and this is based on objective comparison of construction/parts/actual measured performance). You need to combine these with an active 2 way crossover (Behringer CX2310 is fine) and 4 or more small subs such as the Dayton 10" powered units (add pillow in each sub - seriously - this will give perceived tight bass effect from each one ). But it will be much easier to integrate the small speakers recommended above. I recommend mounting close to ceiling using angle mount pointed down toward main field of listeners. Use a high bandwidth/broadband acoustic absorber behind and above each speaker for optimal SQ. Place the subs using the same distribution, along the walls. This will allow a minimally obtrusive, extreme high fidelity(for this kind of setting) solution.There is at least one other here that followed this setup, and had spectacular results(he used more expensive subs and a more powerful xover, however).

If you insist on the Vandies, I highly recommend getting 2 more pair, and distributing them along the room in the same manner as to provide more even sound to the patrons.

-Chris

Well it should be obivous I cannot get proper sound with this set up but it is what I have and it is affordable. Seating arraingments will allow the sound to flow as there are no seats close to the gear.
The Vandies add to the decore, crap they look like furniture if you ask me.
Placement is about as idealic as possible with space constraints. I looked into mountable speakers like you said or even in ceiling type. Both avenues felt a bit off and would add to labor/parts costs. Parts Express has some proper in ceiling gear and dang near went that way with subwoofer supplement for the bottom end. I felt a simple, basic two way would be fine enough for most enjoying the space.
How about the questions with a Hafler DH200 being added and also what type of streaming audio. Internet or Satellite?
Thanks for the comments it is appreciated.
Joe, a cut above.

 

[hospitalityjoe]

I hear you

Yes, but one needs to be careful about the royalty police arm of the recording industry. They go after shops who play to the customers; Not sure if it is only the ones who use CDs or others who also use the radio bands, or stream from the Internet.

I understand about the rights of artists and do not wish to break the rules. Rather break them elsewhere, just kidding...Hence needing to feed music off the either the internet or satellite. Labor cost would go up by feeding a CD tray or you and the consumers would get bored with a bank of CD's.
I dang near went in with a quality JukeBox. Fender has a good one that is fed off the internet for about 2500. The single source streered me clear but having a Juke would of been cool because it would of "Made Money" in the long run, LOL..
Thanks for the input.
Joe, a cut above.

 

[hospitalityjoe]

I agree

More speakers with better off-axis response means a more consistant volume throughout a space. That's the point of sound re-enforcement. That equates to a lower volume with higher audiability. Otherwise you have a reduction in volume at (theoretically) the sqare of the distance... in short it would be too loud near the speaker and too quiet far from the speaker.

I hear you loud and clear. Maybe over time I can add another speaker pair to reinforce the space a bit more. Right now at lower volume it feels to be right as rain for such a small space. Still am messing with speaker placement as one has to be careful with floor standing gear too near public seating.
Joe, steady on.